Author Topic: Things just got real in Ukraine  (Read 38072 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline MadCatTLX

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2095
  • Gender: Male
Re: Things just got real in Ukraine
« Reply #165 on: April 13, 2014, 08:53:42 pm »
Shots fired as Russian troops civilian volunteers storm a police station in Ukraine and take over.
http://euromaidanpr.com/2014/04/13/sos-russia-occupies-continental-ukraine/

At least this time the pro-Russian troops aren't using guns that could be traced back to Russia by sight alone. A standard AK with some civilian equipment would have worked as well but a pimped out AR-15 is a pretty nice touch.

EDIT: SHOTS FIRED!

http://euromaidanpr.com/2014/04/13/counter-terrorism-operation-announced-in-sloviansk/
Ukraine has started to take back the buildings and blocks under "separatist" control.

The first picture shows what look a hell of a lot like the front sights and gas block of an AK.
History is full of maniacs, my friend, men and women of intelect, highly perceptive individuals, who's brilliant minds know neither restraint nor taboo. Such notions are the devils we must slay for the edification of pony-kind. Even if said edification means violating the rules of decency, society, and rightousness itself.
                                                                                                                                                             -Twilight Sparkle, MAGIC.mov

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8358
  • Gender: Male
Re: Things just got real in Ukraine
« Reply #166 on: April 14, 2014, 12:20:37 am »
And here we have the "volunteer militia/rebels/Gru-Speznaz/whatever" in action. They seem... Professional.

Based on the muzzlebreaks those guns are either AK-74 or some commercial AK-hundredsomething. Although I think the commercial models have synthetic furniture. There have also been pictures of these troops with Russian grenadelauchers attached to the guns and gear that is only given to Russian special forces, but those pictures might be from Crimea so at this point it is not that clear.

#Invalid YouTube Link#
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Ultimate Paragon

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8423
  • Gender: Male
  • Tougher than diamonds, stronger than steel
Re: Things just got real in Ukraine
« Reply #167 on: April 14, 2014, 12:24:57 am »
And here we have the "volunteer militia/rebels/Gru-Speznaz/whatever" in action. They seem... Professional.

Based on the muzzlebreaks those guns are either AK-74 or some commercial AK-hundredsomething. Although I think the commercial models have synthetic furniture. There have also been pictures of these troops with Russian grenadelauchers attached to the guns and gear that is only given to Russian special forces, but those pictures might be from Crimea so at this point it is not that clear.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQfK36byhJ4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQfK36byhJ4</a>
"They're ex-military.  Veterans of the August War (which, by the way, was completely justified)."

Offline chitoryu12

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 4009
  • Gender: Male
  • Tax-Payer Rhino
Re: Things just got real in Ukraine
« Reply #168 on: April 14, 2014, 12:28:35 pm »
And here we have the "volunteer militia/rebels/Gru-Speznaz/whatever" in action. They seem... Professional.

Based on the muzzlebreaks those guns are either AK-74 or some commercial AK-hundredsomething. Although I think the commercial models have synthetic furniture. There have also been pictures of these troops with Russian grenadelauchers attached to the guns and gear that is only given to Russian special forces, but those pictures might be from Crimea so at this point it is not that clear.

The AK-74M has updated to synthetic furniture (black being the standard). You could tell if it was in the 100 series by the magazine: the 101 and 102 are in 5.56mm and have almost completely straight magazines, while the 103 and 104 are in 7.62x39mm and have the heavily curved AK-47 mags. From what I can see in the video, the mags have the 5.45mm curve and are thus AK-74s or copies from another country.

Also, shooting into the air is one of the stupidest things you can do. Bullets come back down, and unless you shoot at a literal 90 degree angle straight up they're likely to land with enough energy to kill someone. About a minute or two after they started shooting, a ton of 5.45x39mm bullets promptly landed God knows where.
Still can't think of a signature a year later.

Offline mellenORL

  • Pedal Pushing Puppy Peon
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3876
  • Gender: Female
Re: Things just got real in Ukraine
« Reply #169 on: April 14, 2014, 12:37:41 pm »
And here we have the "volunteer militia/rebels/Gru-Speznaz/whatever" in action. They seem... Professional.

Based on the muzzlebreaks those guns are either AK-74 or some commercial AK-hundredsomething. Although I think the commercial models have synthetic furniture. There have also been pictures of these troops with Russian grenadelauchers attached to the guns and gear that is only given to Russian special forces, but those pictures might be from Crimea so at this point it is not that clear.

The AK-74M has updated to synthetic furniture (black being the standard). You could tell if it was in the 100 series by the magazine: the 101 and 102 are in 5.56mm and have almost completely straight magazines, while the 103 and 104 are in 7.62x39mm and have the heavily curved AK-47 mags. From what I can see in the video, the mags have the 5.45mm curve and are thus AK-74s or copies from another country.

Also, shooting into the air is one of the stupidest things you can do. Bullets come back down, and unless you shoot at a literal 90 degree angle straight up they're likely to land with enough energy to kill someone. About a minute or two after they started shooting, a ton of 5.45x39mm bullets promptly landed God knows where.

Two deaths from falling slugs come to mind, both incidents happened in Atlanta. Before the '96 Olympics, a security guard at the athlete's housing section was struck and killed by a large caliber sniper rifle slug that fell through his neck - it was a New Year's Eve celebration round fired off by some fuckwit 4 miles away in the Buckhead neighborhood of Atlanta. About ten years later, a little 9 year black girl was attending a Wednesday night bible reading with her parents at a small storefront church when a 9mm round fired up into the air fell and punched through the flimsy tin roof and acoustical tiles above her head, killing her instantly with massive brain trauma.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 01:38:08 pm by mellenORL »
Quote from: Ultimate Chatbot That Totally Passes The Turing Test
I sympathize completely. However, to use against us. Let me ask you a troll. On the one who pulled it. But here's the question: where do I think it might as well have stepped out of all people would cling to a layman.

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8358
  • Gender: Male
Re: Things just got real in Ukraine
« Reply #170 on: April 15, 2014, 11:41:38 am »
Well, I think they couldn't fire at the ground due to fear of richochets from the pavement, but I agree that shooting in the air is dangerous and they might have accidentally killed people. ...While firing warning shots because they didn't want to kill people...

But that pales in comparison to this: The Ukrainian military is attacking.

Fighter opening fire at some separatists:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjjEnTSpSaY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjjEnTSpSaY</a>

GRU officers have been arrested in Ukraine:
http://euromaidanpr.com/2014/04/15/ukrainians-detain-russian-gru-officers-who-acted-in-ukraine/

I am ashamed that I can't pronounce the name of that town or most of the other names in the article. Anyway, Ukraine is arming up as fast as it can.
http://euromaidanpr.com/2014/04/15/dnipropetrovsk-promises-putin-a-second-stalingrad/#more-7124

Another fun result from this conflict, Russia was getting some vital weapons and equipment from Ukraine and now that Ukraine said FUCK NO to all business with Russia their military is hurting.
https://www.rusi.org/downloads/assets/UKRANIANMILITARYDISPOSITIONS_RUSIBRIEFING.pdf
Quote
Some 30 percent of Ukrainian military exports to Russia are unique and cannot currently
be substituted by Russian production. Russia’s heavy intercontinental ballistic missiles (the SS-18 ICBMs) are designed and produced by the
Yuzhmash combine in Dnepropetrovsk. SS-18s are regularly checked and maintained by Yuzhmash specialists. Two other strategic missile systems –
the SS-25 (RT-2PM Topol) and the SS-19 (UR-100 NUTTKh) – are designed and produced by Russian-based enterprises, but use guidance systems designed
and produced in Ukraine by the Kharkiv-based Khartron Scientific-Industrial Combine. The SS-18, SS-19 and SS-25 currently make up some 51 per cent of
Russia’s overall strategic nuclear-weapons inventory and over 80 per cent of that of Russia’s Strategic Rocket Forces specifically. In addition, some 20 per
cent of the natural uranium currently consumed by Russia’s nuclear industry, both for civilian and military purposes, comes from Zholti Vody in Ukraine.

Quote
The Russian air force is also critically dependent on the Ukrainian defence
industry. Ukrainian enterprises produce the R-27 (the AA-10 Alamo) medium-
range air-to-air missile (AAM), as well as the seekers for the R-73 (AA-11
Archer) short-range AAM – which, between them, represent the majority of
anti-air missiles operated by Russian fighters. Many of the auxiliary systems
– from hydraulics to drogue parachutes – for the Russian Su-27, Su-30 and
Su-35 fighters, as well as for Russia’s newest Su-34, are also produced in
Ukraine. In Zaporizhia, the Motor-Sich plant has a major role in Russian
aviation.
Motor-Sich produces jet engines for a variety of Russian transport
jet aircraft, including the An-124 Ruslan, the largest Russian transport
aircraft, as well as for some combat and training aircraft. The plant also
produces engines for all Russian combat and transport helicopters, as well
as auxiliary power units for all Russian helicopters and many types of combat
and transport aircraft.
Russia has made a vast effort to reduce its dependence upon Motor-Sich
engines, but the evidence is that it cannot produce enough engines to meet
its own demand – to say nothing of an ambitious rearmament programme,
which looks as if it will require at least 3,000 helicopter engines in a two-to-
three year period to equip Russian forces.
Russia’s dependence on Motor-Sich also has the effect of restricting its own
military and aviation exports. For the period 2013–16, Russia has secured
contracts for the delivery of over 260 new helicopters around the world, all
of which are equipped with either main or auxiliary engines supplied by the
Ukrainian company.

...Actually that means that if this conflict ends without Russia conquering Ukraine completely and seizing those companies their military and businesses are really going to hurt for a while before they find other sources for those weapons and equipment.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline chitoryu12

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 4009
  • Gender: Male
  • Tax-Payer Rhino
Re: Things just got real in Ukraine
« Reply #171 on: April 15, 2014, 11:50:25 am »
Quote
Well, I think they couldn't fire at the ground due to fear of richochets from the pavement, but I agree that shooting in the air is dangerous and they might have accidentally killed people. ...While firing warning shots because they didn't want to kill people...

You're never supposed to shoot at anything other than the target anyway, which is why warning shots are generally a no-no. Compensating for ricochets by spraying randomly into the air does literally nothing to change the potential outcome.

Quote
GRU officers have been arrested in Ukraine:

I'm sorry, but all I can think of is this:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_blUzsgnXc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_blUzsgnXc</a>
Still can't think of a signature a year later.

Offline Askold

  • Definitely not hiding a dark secret.
  • Global Moderator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8358
  • Gender: Male
Re: Things just got real in Ukraine
« Reply #172 on: April 17, 2014, 09:41:00 am »
Interesting article from a Finnish military magazine.

http://www.suomensotilas.fi/en/artikkelit/little-green-men-are-different-time

All in all, I have to bow to their expertise and find their assesment plausible.

In other news, Ukrainian military is a bit embarrassed when some of their soldiers abandoned APCs to the separatists without a fight. Not a good show for the grand operation to retake the region.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline chitoryu12

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 4009
  • Gender: Male
  • Tax-Payer Rhino
Re: Things just got real in Ukraine
« Reply #173 on: April 17, 2014, 11:03:49 am »
Interesting article from a Finnish military magazine.

http://www.suomensotilas.fi/en/artikkelit/little-green-men-are-different-time

All in all, I have to bow to their expertise and find their assesment plausible.

As do I. That would definitely explain the terrifically bad tactics and unsafe behavior of the "troops" in that video. The other guys that you see randomly shooting into the air in modern times? Middle Eastern insurgents. When the supposed "Russian soldiers" are acting like a bunch of untrained civilians tossed assault rifles and told to go take over a city, it casts their identity into doubt.
Still can't think of a signature a year later.

Offline Random Gal

  • Bisex Rex
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 2686
  • Gender: Female
  • Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus
Re: Things just got real in Ukraine
« Reply #174 on: April 17, 2014, 02:10:13 pm »
Interesting article from a Finnish military magazine.

http://www.suomensotilas.fi/en/artikkelit/little-green-men-are-different-time

All in all, I have to bow to their expertise and find their assesment plausible.

As do I. That would definitely explain the terrifically bad tactics and unsafe behavior of the "troops" in that video. The other guys that you see randomly shooting into the air in modern times? Middle Eastern insurgents. When the supposed "Russian soldiers" are acting like a bunch of untrained civilians tossed assault rifles and told to go take over a city, it casts their identity into doubt.

Pretty sure Russia's still behind it; they're just using hired thugs instead of their own troops.

Offline chitoryu12

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 4009
  • Gender: Male
  • Tax-Payer Rhino
Re: Things just got real in Ukraine
« Reply #175 on: April 17, 2014, 08:39:56 pm »
Interesting article from a Finnish military magazine.

http://www.suomensotilas.fi/en/artikkelit/little-green-men-are-different-time

All in all, I have to bow to their expertise and find their assesment plausible.

As do I. That would definitely explain the terrifically bad tactics and unsafe behavior of the "troops" in that video. The other guys that you see randomly shooting into the air in modern times? Middle Eastern insurgents. When the supposed "Russian soldiers" are acting like a bunch of untrained civilians tossed assault rifles and told to go take over a city, it casts their identity into doubt.

Pretty sure Russia's still behind it; they're just using hired thugs instead of their own troops.

Oh, definitely. It's just a bit odd to send in what are basically crappy mercenaries instead of soldiers.

What possible advantage could they get out of it? They can't be paying these guys much less than they pay their own soldiers, and they're much less effective if they actually get into a fight. I know the Russian military isn't in top condition, but they can't be so bad off that they have to send in criminals with fatigues instead of soldiers.
Still can't think of a signature a year later.

Offline lord gibbon

  • That Weird Guy in the Corner
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 868
  • Gender: Male
  • living trivia machine
Re: Things just got real in Ukraine
« Reply #176 on: April 17, 2014, 08:42:29 pm »
It's diplomacy. This way, they can technically say that they don't have troops In Ukraine.
Excuse me, sir, do you have a minute to talk about your lord and savior, Hannibal Barca?

Quote from: Seneca
Religion is regarded by the common man as true, by the wise man as false, and by the powerful man as useful
Yeah, if the pagans are so smart, why did Jesus invade Pagan-land on the back of a dragon and kill them all!

Offline RavynousHunter

  • Master Thief
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8108
  • Gender: Male
  • A man of no consequence.
    • My Twitter
Re: Things just got real in Ukraine
« Reply #177 on: April 17, 2014, 08:54:45 pm »
It's diplomacy. This way, they can technically say that they don't have troops In Ukraine.

Its quite ingenious, actually.  Let's say one of these "soldiers" gets attacked; maybe some Ukrainians who don't take too kindly to V-Poots' (Thanks for that one, Spuki!) antics get fed up with the "soldiers'" bullshit (because they're not proper soldiers and likely lack a sense of decorum) and decide to kick their arses.  Well, now, Russia suddenly has an excuse for a full-out invasion, don't they?  They conveniently "forget" to mention that the "soldiers" there are only shitty, likely underpaid, mercs, and they don't run the risk of wasting perfectly good, real soldiers.

Conspiracy-style shite, but honestly...I wouldn't put it past Stalin 2.0.
Quote from: Bra'tac
Life for the sake of life means nothing.

Offline chitoryu12

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 4009
  • Gender: Male
  • Tax-Payer Rhino
Re: Things just got real in Ukraine
« Reply #178 on: April 17, 2014, 10:52:19 pm »
It's diplomacy. This way, they can technically say that they don't have troops In Ukraine.

Its quite ingenious, actually.  Let's say one of these "soldiers" gets attacked; maybe some Ukrainians who don't take too kindly to V-Poots' (Thanks for that one, Spuki!) antics get fed up with the "soldiers'" bullshit (because they're not proper soldiers and likely lack a sense of decorum) and decide to kick their arses.  Well, now, Russia suddenly has an excuse for a full-out invasion, don't they?  They conveniently "forget" to mention that the "soldiers" there are only shitty, likely underpaid, mercs, and they don't run the risk of wasting perfectly good, real soldiers.

Conspiracy-style shite, but honestly...I wouldn't put it past Stalin 2.0.

Russia is already risking a lot by sending in soldiers and mercs in the first place. Starting a full invasion, especially in response to their own men abusing their power and getting their asses beat, would basically kill any good relations they have in the civilized world.
Still can't think of a signature a year later.

Offline Kat S.

  • Pope
  • ****
  • Posts: 388
  • Gender: Female
  • Repentant sinner, unrepentant knowledge junkie
Re: Things just got real in Ukraine
« Reply #179 on: April 17, 2014, 11:00:06 pm »
Yeah, and all the meanwhile Putin is staying conspicously silent to the rest of the world for this matter.  I guess he realized those B.S. press confrerences he held earlier during the Crimea situation weren't fooling anyone outside of Russia, and the "talks" he made with the west about Ukraine aren't going to fall in his favor either.

As for Ukraine, this time now would be prime oportunity for someone to emerge as a leader in this crisis. Ukraine will eventually have to stand up against Russia if they want Russia to stop punking and bullying them.