Author Topic: Whitewashing in Target ads  (Read 4824 times)

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Offline rookie

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Re: Whitewashing in Target ads
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2015, 10:47:24 am »
Ok. I can see all that. Right now I'm trying to come up with a good way to word my thoughts on the matter.
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Offline Askold

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Re: Whitewashing in Target ads
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2015, 11:38:56 am »
...I don't think that an action if racist if there is no intent to be racist.

And subconsciously doing something racist is not the same as doing something that could be seen as a racist act accidentally because you did not know that the context. (The example of inviting a black friend over for a dinner and having chicken and watermelons served could be a racist joke if that was the intention but just a few years ago I did not know about that stereotype and theoretically might have accidentally done the same but without any ill intent.)

Ignorance is ignorance and can be harmful but "stupid" and "racist" are not the same.
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Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Whitewashing in Target ads
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2015, 01:05:55 pm »
Being a racist and doing something racist out of ignorance are two different things. When people do things that generally are interpreted as having racist undertones they are usually helping to uphold and recreate racism embedded in the culture. That's why those acts can be seen as racist. Concepts like racism are so loaded that people often don't notice and think about all the nuances in them.

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Whitewashing in Target ads
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2015, 02:03:26 pm »
...I don't think that an action if racist if there is no intent to be racist.

I don't see why. Almost everybody agrees that racism is bad; that much of the battle is won. As a corollary, almost nobody intends to do something racist, and yet, somehow, racism still happens.

The people who don't think "racist" is a bad word, the Klan and Neo-Nazis and such, are only a tiny fraction of the population. The rest is mostly made of people with subconscious biases regarding people of other races (or their own race) and those people will occasionally act on those biases. Requiring intent seems like a red herring; people are still being discriminated against because of their race, whether anyone wants to be racist or not.

Quote
Ignorance is ignorance and can be harmful but "stupid" and "racist" are not the same.

Not saying they are the same; just saying that often, things can be both.

Also, none of this gets into the "you're racist" vs. "you did something racist" distinction. All of the above is re: doing something racist. What it mean to be racist as opposed to a normal person with occasional biases is a trickier thing I'm not willing to get into.
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Offline The_Queen

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Re: Whitewashing in Target ads
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2015, 02:21:05 pm »
I'mma back up Sigma on this one. Modern day racism is not foaming at the mouth, wearing a white hood. Modern day racism is an innate preference for one group and a cynicism for other groups. It's subconscious, and it's a lot more pervasive than people like to think. Just because someone does not actively think "I hate black people, screw them" in making hiring decision does not mean that person does not have racial prejudices after hiring 150 white people and no black people.

And this is part of the shortcomings of the race discussion. Racial minorities see this subconscious racism as racism nonetheless. In fact, I read one article that I can't be fucked to look for that said black people prefer openly racist (white) doctors because those doctors are seen as less two-faced and conniving, and therefore seen as more trustworthy. In contrast, the white majority in this country sets a different standard and believes that it isn't racism if you don't say the N-word (see the Republican Presidential debates of 2012).

The other thing is that this does actively hurt minority groups. The first example that I think of is how hospitals disproportionately close in African-American portions of cities. Or how police make snap judgments and unfortunately do consider race (example, stop-and-frisk). Or how courts make the same snap judgment and give black people longer sentences. These subconscious discriminations will not go away unless people begin to call them what they really are: racism.

As for Target, my two cents, this is some gray area. On the one hand, whitewashing is a subtle racism that white people don't notice because white people are the norm and anyone else is qualified. On the other hand, and this is poor wording, you can't really see anything statistically meaningful with an N of one (and statistics do the best job of showing subconscious prejudices).
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Offline Old Viking

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Re: Whitewashing in Target ads
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2015, 04:41:03 pm »
I'm an equal opportunity misanthrope, so I'm never plagued by consideration of this sort.
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Offline rookie

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Re: Whitewashing in Target ads
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2015, 12:40:12 am »
I guess keep rolling along doing what I believe is right with the information I have at the time seems like the way to go.

Only slightly off subject, in all my years here in this forum's many forms, I've never ever heard anyone address old people racism. The racism of our grandparents. Like, my grandfather I always thought was a kind and decent man. It was he who taught me the highest state you can be in is when you've made the world a better place than when you found it. I was admittedly young but I can't recall anyone saying he dealt with people like they weren't equal (with certain exceptions for authority like his boss or the local pastor). But he referred to his best friends for the better part of 50 years That dumb Polak, The Spic, Eye-Tye, and so on. Like he's a good man who happens to be a Polak. I'm sure someone knows what I mean and can better explain.
Anyways, I'm curious as to your thoughts, anyone who has an opinion. It sometimes seems like it's excused as long as it's not out of hand. 
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Quote from: davedan board=pg thread=6573 post=218058 time=1286247542
I'll stop eating beef lamb and pork the same day they start letting me eat vegetarians.

Offline Thejebusfire

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Re: Whitewashing in Target ads
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2015, 01:16:35 am »
Being a racist and doing something racist out of ignorance are two different things. When people do things that generally are interpreted as having racist undertones they are usually helping to uphold and recreate racism embedded in the culture. That's why those acts can be seen as racist. Concepts like racism are so loaded that people often don't notice and think about all the nuances in them.

I'm inclined to agree. I don't think Target was deliberately being racist. I think they were trying to go for "there is an Annie in every girl," and just fucked it up miserably.

Offline Canadian Mojo

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Re: Whitewashing in Target ads
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2015, 09:12:29 am »
I guess keep rolling along doing what I believe is right with the information I have at the time seems like the way to go.

Only slightly off subject, in all my years here in this forum's many forms, I've never ever heard anyone address old people racism. The racism of our grandparents. Like, my grandfather I always thought was a kind and decent man. It was he who taught me the highest state you can be in is when you've made the world a better place than when you found it. I was admittedly young but I can't recall anyone saying he dealt with people like they weren't equal (with certain exceptions for authority like his boss or the local pastor). But he referred to his best friends for the better part of 50 years That dumb Polak, The Spic, Eye-Tye, and so on. Like he's a good man who happens to be a Polak. I'm sure someone knows what I mean and can better explain.
Anyways, I'm curious as to your thoughts, anyone who has an opinion. It sometimes seems like it's excused as long as it's not out of hand.
In your grandfather's case it sounds less like racism and more like horrible nicknames you can only get away with because they are friends. You know who they are and what they are but just don't care. Rather than treat it as a taboo, put up a wall, and pretend it doesn't exist you make a big joke of it and the friendship is tighter because of it. You know you can trust the advice/warnings/opinions of the guy you call the dumb Polak will tell you what you need to hear in no uncertain terms and isn't going to worry about your feelings.

Offline chitoryu12

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Re: Whitewashing in Target ads
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2015, 12:52:11 pm »
I'm gonna step in here for a second and point out that this is a non-issue and is entirely based on misinterpretation of a handful of ads.

I want you to take a look at these images.













These are the ads.

See, the reason the ads don't have Quevenzhane Wallis is because the ad campaign is based around "There's an Annie in all of us." None of the girls in the ads are actually meant to represent Annie, they merely mirror the new movie's aesthetic for advertising purposes. The "whitewashed ad" pictures going around are intentionally cropped to hide the non-white models surrounding them.

I'd like to do some math for you all. At the moment, about 63% of the United States is non-Hispanic white and 37% are thus non-white or Hispanic of pale complexion. In these images I provided, there are 20 girls visible. Out of those, I can say with confidence that 7 are non-white or pale Hispanics. That makes 35% of the girls in the pictures non-Caucasian, or almost exactly the demographics of the United States population in regards to non-white individuals.

This is literally a Tumblr level of misinformation and foaming at the mouth. It's a manufactured controversy using cropped images and tearful stories from children to get everyone worked into a frenzy over a problem that literally does not exist.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 03:53:15 pm by chitoryu12 »
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Whitewashing in Target ads
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2015, 01:50:39 pm »
Looks like I bought into a moral panic with no basis in reality.  Mea culpa.