FSTDT Forums
Community => Society and History => Topic started by: Barbarella on September 24, 2015, 05:11:32 pm
-
Are funds so scarce that various militaries can't just station soldiers and tanks to guard these places and protect them from these marauding beardies from Hell?
Really! Why do we let these places sit there unprotected? If there was a bunch of soldiers and tanks surrounding places like the ruins of Nimrud or that temple in Palmyra, they might still be standing.
Common sense, man!
Also, these Daesh dorks (and others like them) destroy stuff in order to erase history.....but they're too stupid to realize that it's futile....what, with all the countless movies, videos, photos, books, websites and such with full detailed documentation of these places.
Plus, they sell some of the stuff, so it isn't really iconoclasm.
Let's face it, Daesh is just an organized crime group who just want to rape, murder and destroy for fun without repercussions. They're just pretending it's about religion.
And I image these places can be rebuilt as replicas.
Again, to the militaries or whatever....GUARD THESE PLACES, YOU IDIOTS!
-
Can't. Costs too much money.
-
or you know, do something truly immoral*, like capture daesh soldiers and deprogram them. then keep doing it, and if anyone complains, expose daesh for what they are and destroy their pr from the inside out.
*i use the term litteraly. deprogramming is as painful as brainwashing. but quit killing people, make them come to their senses so as to destroy those hateful ideals completely.
-
For the same reason we don't go in and simply stop DAESH from killing and raping people...politics.
-
or you know, do something truly immoral*, like capture daesh soldiers and deprogram them. then keep doing it, and if anyone complains, expose daesh for what they are and destroy their pr from the inside out.
*i use the term litteraly. deprogramming is as painful as brainwashing. but quit killing people, make them come to their senses so as to destroy those hateful ideals completely.
Yup. That and infiltrate and subvert from within. They're probably doing this right now.
Plus, there's a number of defectors who realized they "Dun Goofed" and are willing to tell their stories....they're help out in the Anti-DAESH efforts as well. Many joined because they assumed they would be fighting Assad's forces and helping the Syrian people (plus fulfilling their dream of living in a 'Perfect Islamic Society') but when they saw that it was really about slaughtering and enslaving innocents, especially fellow Muslims, they went "Okay, this is nuts. I'n outta here". They literally risked their lives to secretly defect because DAESH executes dissenters & attempted-defectors. These guys have to keep themselves anonymous when telling their accounts.
It'll end eventually.
That said, it is also important to de-radicalize folks. You need to discredit & kill the idea, not just the crazy organization with said ideas, or else another bunch of kooks will emerge.
And there's got to be a way to deal with that darn Military-Industrial Complex. They're fueling this, too. That's why everything's done half-baked over there. You need to deal with a bad group AND kill the ideology!
-
or you know, do something truly immoral*, like capture daesh soldiers and deprogram them. then keep doing it, and if anyone complains, expose daesh for what they are and destroy their pr from the inside out.
*i use the term litteraly. deprogramming is as painful as brainwashing. but quit killing people, make them come to their senses so as to destroy those hateful ideals completely.
Yup. That and infiltrate and subvert from within. They're probably doing this right now.
Plus, there's a number of defectors who realized they "Dun Goofed" and are willing to tell their stories....they're help out in the Anti-DAESH efforts as well. Many joined because they assumed they would be fighting Assad's forces and helping the Syrian people (plus fulfilling their dream of living in a 'Perfect Islamic Society') but when they saw that it was really about slaughtering and enslaving innocents, especially fellow Muslims, they went "Okay, this is nuts. I'n outta here". They literally risked their lives to secretly defect because DAESH executes dissenters & attempted-defectors. These guys have to keep themselves anonymous when telling their accounts.
It'll end eventually.
That said, it is also important to de-radicalize folks. You need to discredit & kill the idea, not just the crazy organization with said ideas, or else another bunch of kooks will emerge.
And there's got to be a way to deal with that darn Military-Industrial Complex. They're fueling this, too. That's why everything's done half-baked over there. You need to deal with a bad group AND kill the ideology!
Reminds me of a Chinese proverb: "when weeding, destroy the roots."
-
or you know, do something truly immoral*, like capture daesh soldiers and deprogram them. then keep doing it, and if anyone complains, expose daesh for what they are and destroy their pr from the inside out.
*i use the term litteraly. deprogramming is as painful as brainwashing. but quit killing people, make them come to their senses so as to destroy those hateful ideals completely.
Yup. That and infiltrate and subvert from within. They're probably doing this right now.
Plus, there's a number of defectors who realized they "Dun Goofed" and are willing to tell their stories....they're help out in the Anti-DAESH efforts as well. Many joined because they assumed they would be fighting Assad's forces and helping the Syrian people (plus fulfilling their dream of living in a 'Perfect Islamic Society') but when they saw that it was really about slaughtering and enslaving innocents, especially fellow Muslims, they went "Okay, this is nuts. I'n outta here". They literally risked their lives to secretly defect because DAESH executes dissenters & attempted-defectors. These guys have to keep themselves anonymous when telling their accounts.
It'll end eventually.
That said, it is also important to de-radicalize folks. You need to discredit & kill the idea, not just the crazy organization with said ideas, or else another bunch of kooks will emerge.
And there's got to be a way to deal with that darn Military-Industrial Complex. They're fueling this, too. That's why everything's done half-baked over there. You need to deal with a bad group AND kill the ideology!
Reminds me of a Chinese proverb: "when weeding, destroy the roots."
Eeyup.
-
The absolute last thing you want to do is invade. There is no one thing you could do to make the situation worse than send in an American soldier. Eventually the conflict will come to an end, we'll end out juvenile ginned-up paranoia about a small-time crime gang like ISIS and we can find some other boogey man to scare us out of our boots (Ebola! No, Russia SAMs! No, North Korean mini-subs!).
-
The absolute last thing you want to do is invade. There is no one thing you could do to make the situation worse than send in an American soldier. Eventually the conflict will come to an end, we'll end out juvenile ginned-up paranoia about a small-time crime gang like ISIS and we can find some other boogey man to scare us out of our boots (Ebola! No, Russia SAMs! No, North Korean mini-subs!).
You're not wrong at all. But I would have rather been deployed to save those monuments than whatever we were doing in Iraq. At least there would have been a mission, a concrete objective we could measure success or failure. I didn't get that from Iraq.
-
Just send soldiers to guard the monuments, not fight wars.
Deal with the other stuff in other ways.
Concerning sexual slavery, have a bunch of guys buy those women & girls to free them.....use very convincing counterfeit money or something (you don't want to fund DAESH). Same for the antiquities that they stole to sell.
Save who you can. Save what you can. Guard what you can. Buy what you can. Rebuild what you can. Restore what you can. Infiltrate. Subvert from within. Reprogram & Kill the idea.
-
Putting boots on the ground regardless of the reason is a very risky business. Suppose ISIS tried to destroy another monument and wound up in a shootout with the soldiers guarding it, resulting in casualties. Congratulations, we now have an actual ground war on our hands.
Also, as for subverting and sabotaging them from within, I'm sure the CIA already has people doing that and we just don't know about it.
-
Concerning sexual slavery, have a bunch of guy buy those women & girls to free them.....use very convincing counterfeit money or something (you don't want to fund DAESH). Same for the antiquities that they stole to sell.
Any fake money that is convincing enough for them to accept is convincing enough for them to use with someone else.
-
The absolute last thing you want to do is invade. There is no one thing you could do to make the situation worse than send in an American soldier. Eventually the conflict will come to an end, we'll end out juvenile ginned-up paranoia about a small-time crime gang like ISIS and we can find some other boogey man to scare us out of our boots (Ebola! No, Russia SAMs! No, North Korean mini-subs!).
"Small-time crime gangs" don't commit genocide. Really, they're the Islamic equivalent of the Khmer Rouge.
-
Putting boots on the ground regardless of the reason is a very risky business. Suppose ISIS tried to destroy another monument and wound up in a shootout with the soldiers guarding it, resulting in casualties. Congratulations, we now have an actual ground war on our hands.
Also, as for subverting and sabotaging them from within, I'm sure the CIA already has people doing that and we just don't know about it.
Yeah, I see your point.
And yes, I know the CIA and others have folks doing just that.
Concerning sexual slavery, have a bunch of guy buy those women & girls to free them.....use very convincing counterfeit money or something (you don't want to fund DAESH). Same for the antiquities that they stole to sell.
Any fake money that is convincing enough for them to accept is convincing enough for them to use with someone else.
But "Someone else" will use money on something else and get arrested by another "someone else" who's a cop for the crime of counterfeiting.
I'm not saying these solutions are perfect, I'm just saying that the benefits must out-weigh the pitfalls.
If oodles of antiquities & slaves are saved then it's a win!
-
The point is you're still funding ISIS, because they can still use the money if it's good enough to fool them. Plus of course incentivising them to kidnap more people/steal more artifacts/etc.
-
The point is you're still funding ISIS, because they can still use the money if it's good enough to fool them. Plus of course incentivising them to kidnap more people/steal more artifacts/etc.
Well, can you think of any BETTER ideas?
-
The point is you're still funding ISIS, because they can still use the money if it's good enough to fool them. Plus of course incentivising them to kidnap more people/steal more artifacts/etc.
Well, can you think of any BETTER ideas?
capture 'em, crucify 'em, post the pics on the islamist web.
[/niam]
-
The point is you're still funding ISIS, because they can still use the money if it's good enough to fool them. Plus of course incentivising them to kidnap more people/steal more artifacts/etc.
Well, can you think of any BETTER ideas?
I feel like you're implying that I'm doing something wrong by shooting down your idea without proposing an alternative?
Which is odd. If this was an everyday situation where we're trying to decide where to go for dinner, sure, my attitude would be unproductive. But realistically nothing discussed in this forum will be implemented as a countermeasure to ISIS regardless of what I say. It doesn't matter if I have better ideas to contribute or not (which, let's be honest, I probably don't. I don't have any relevant domain expertise here)
I saw problems in your idea and pointed them out, because that's kind of a thing I do. This is a discussion forum, we discuss things.
-
Is there some way we could come up with cash that turns into blank paper after a few hours?
-
Hmm, now that actually gave me an idea. The government quietly recruits counterfeiters to give FAKE tracked money.
-
The absolute last thing you want to do is invade. There is no one thing you could do to make the situation worse than send in an American soldier. Eventually the conflict will come to an end, we'll end out juvenile ginned-up paranoia about a small-time crime gang like ISIS and we can find some other boogey man to scare us out of our boots (Ebola! No, Russia SAMs! No, North Korean mini-subs!).
"Small-time crime gangs" don't commit genocide. Really, they're the Islamic equivalent of the Khmer Rouge.
Derp.
-
The absolute last thing you want to do is invade. There is no one thing you could do to make the situation worse than send in an American soldier. Eventually the conflict will come to an end, we'll end out juvenile ginned-up paranoia about a small-time crime gang like ISIS and we can find some other boogey man to scare us out of our boots (Ebola! No, Russia SAMs! No, North Korean mini-subs!).
"Small-time crime gangs" don't commit genocide. Really, they're the Islamic equivalent of the Khmer Rouge.
Derp.
Are you agreeing with UP and saying that you derped or claiming that UP derped and still consider ISIS a "small-time crime gang?"
-
The absolute last thing you want to do is invade. There is no one thing you could do to make the situation worse than send in an American soldier. Eventually the conflict will come to an end, we'll end out juvenile ginned-up paranoia about a small-time crime gang like ISIS and we can find some other boogey man to scare us out of our boots (Ebola! No, Russia SAMs! No, North Korean mini-subs!).
"Small-time crime gangs" don't commit genocide. Really, they're the Islamic equivalent of the Khmer Rouge.
Derp.
Are you agreeing with UP and saying that you derped or claiming that UP derped and still consider ISIS a "small-time crime gang?"
Genocide?
-
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/genocide I'm on my phone so quoting stuff is hard and I already lost this text once but Wiktionary seems to agree that large scale killing, where the victims were chosen based on religion ethnicity or other such reason fits the definition of genocide.
-
Concerning counterfeits, banks & businesses are trained to spot the fakes from the real. If some aren't, they'll get training.
I know, pay for stuff with fake checks, and come up with some fake records so that if the DAESH guys check it, they'll assume it's legit.
Checks can only be used once and it'll take more time to figure out if it's fakey. Once they figure they've been had, the artifacts and gals will be long gone.
Unfortunately this plan can only work for a short while because DAESH will grow wise and avoid checks. However, many women & girls will be freed and antiquities returned.....so it's cool.
Also, send in interlopers who will act as "Harriet Tubman" to the women & girls and STEAL the artifacts from DAESH.
It should be a combo of these methods, constantly rotating in use in order to be more unpredictable to DAESH.
-
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/genocide I'm on my phone so quoting stuff is hard and I already lost this text once but Wiktionary seems to agree that large scale killing, where the victims were chosen based on religion ethnicity or other such reason fits the definition of genocide.
Comparable to Year Zero? Multi-millions dead? I think not.
-
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/genocide I'm on my phone so quoting stuff is hard and I already lost this text once but Wiktionary seems to agree that large scale killing, where the victims were chosen based on religion ethnicity or other such reason fits the definition of genocide.
Comparable to Year Zero? Multi-millions dead? I think not.
Give 'em a few years.
-
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/genocide I'm on my phone so quoting stuff is hard and I already lost this text once but Wiktionary seems to agree that large scale killing, where the victims were chosen based on religion ethnicity or other such reason fits the definition of genocide.
Comparable to Year Zero? Multi-millions dead? I think not.
What should be the lower limit for deaths in order for something to count as genocide? There are several ethnic groups that could be destroyed completely without the death toll going over a million. Like the Yazidis for example. Who mainly live in Iraq where they are being killed by the ISIS who are trying to exterminate them completely: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3002547/IS-likely-committing-genocide-against-Yazidi-minority-Iraq-UN.html (Some people would call that a genocide, but as there are less than a million of Yazidis in Iraq, and there are a few more of them living outside of Iraq I'm not sure if this counts.)
Also, Express considers ISIS to be committing genocide even if the death toll only reaches thousands of people:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/596970/Islamic-State-commit-genocide-execute-two-thousand-people