Author Topic: You go on a vacation...  (Read 11454 times)

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Art Vandelay

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Re: You go on a vacation...
« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2018, 07:52:28 pm »
The degree of advancement is whenever a civilization moves above tribal level and establishees a nation.
I said specific, my little denim diddler. That is vague. Precisely the opposite of specific.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: You go on a vacation...
« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2018, 08:16:06 pm »
The degree of advancement is whenever a civilization moves above tribal level and establishees a nation.
I said specific, my little denim diddler. That is vague. Precisely the opposite of specific.

It is specific. You can clearly tell when a nation is established.

Art Vandelay

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Re: You go on a vacation...
« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2018, 08:30:32 pm »
The degree of advancement is whenever a civilization moves above tribal level and establishees a nation.
I said specific, my little denim diddler. That is vague. Precisely the opposite of specific.
It is specific. You can clearly tell when a nation is established.
Well then, you should have no trouble clearly and unambiguously defining it. What specifically is it that qualifies a society as a nation, without which it is merely a tribe?

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: You go on a vacation...
« Reply #48 on: November 22, 2018, 08:40:22 pm »
The degree of advancement is whenever a civilization moves above tribal level and establishees a nation.
I said specific, my little denim diddler. That is vague. Precisely the opposite of specific.
It is specific. You can clearly tell when a nation is established.
Well then, you should have no trouble clearly and unambiguously defining it. What specifically is it that qualifies a society as a nation, without which it is merely a tribe?

A tribe is a smaller group, consisting of a community and based on close blood ties. A nation contains multiple communities under a single unified government.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 08:42:31 pm by Jacob Harrison »

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: You go on a vacation...
« Reply #49 on: November 22, 2018, 08:52:13 pm »
Is he the child of Elizabeth II or George VI? If not then I don't see how he could possibly be considered legitimate.

As I said, Elizabeth II is not the rightful legitimate monarch because she does not follow the true line of primogeniture from William the Conqueror.

And nobody but you cares about that, you manchild. How's your little Manson Family going BTW?

Well it was called the Jacob Harrison Anglo Catholic Society and since I am Roman Catholic again, I guess I’ll have to change the name of the society.

Art Vandelay

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Re: You go on a vacation...
« Reply #50 on: November 22, 2018, 08:56:43 pm »
The degree of advancement is whenever a civilization moves above tribal level and establishees a nation.
I said specific, my little denim diddler. That is vague. Precisely the opposite of specific.
It is specific. You can clearly tell when a nation is established.
Well then, you should have no trouble clearly and unambiguously defining it. What specifically is it that qualifies a society as a nation, without which it is merely a tribe?

A tribe is a smaller group, consisting of a community and based on close blood ties. A nation contains multiple communities under a unified government.
Once again, vague. What does "smaller group" even mean? Are we talking population, land area, town/city density, something else entirely or a combination of all of these things? Whichever it is, specifically how small (and I'm talking numbers, not some vague descriptor) defines tribal?

As for blood ties, do I even have to say it? Remind us all, why exactly is your True Heir the True Heir in the first place? It's certainly not merit.

Finally, feudalism is about as far from a unified government as you can possibly get. It's a constantly shifting web of loose hierarchic alliances between ruling clans. If that's what qualifies as a unified government to you, I'd love to see what you think is a fractured mess.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: You go on a vacation...
« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2018, 09:03:01 pm »
The degree of advancement is whenever a civilization moves above tribal level and establishees a nation.
I said specific, my little denim diddler. That is vague. Precisely the opposite of specific.
It is specific. You can clearly tell when a nation is established.
Well then, you should have no trouble clearly and unambiguously defining it. What specifically is it that qualifies a society as a nation, without which it is merely a tribe?

A tribe is a smaller group, consisting of a community and based on close blood ties. A nation contains multiple communities under a unified government.
Once again, vague. What does "smaller group" even mean? Are we talking population, land area, town/city density, something else entirely or a combination of all of these things? Whichever it is, specifically how small (and I'm talking numbers, not some vague descriptor) defines tribal?

As for blood ties, do I even have to say it? Remind us all, why exactly is your True Heir the True Heir in the first place? It's certainly not merit.

Finally, feudalism is about as far from a unified government as you can possibly get. It's a constantly shifting web of loose hierarchic alliances between ruling clans. If that's what qualifies as a unified government to you, I'd love to see what you think is a fractured mess.

Well the fact that it is a community indicates town/city density. And Feudalism is a unified government because the lords are under the authority of the King. Tribes are not unified because each tribe has a different chief.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2018, 09:08:45 pm by Jacob Harrison »

Art Vandelay

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Re: You go on a vacation...
« Reply #52 on: November 22, 2018, 09:39:28 pm »
Well the fact that it is a community indicates town/city density.
What, can you not read? Give me a fucking number, you little pervert. What specific town/city density defines a nation as opposed to a tribe?
And Feudalism is a unified government because the lords are under the authority of the King. Tribes are not unified because each tribe has a different chief.
It's a collection of completely independent clans with their own internal laws and military who pay a portion of their taxes and soldiers to their liege (not necessarily the king himself) and are kept in their subservient role by force. That's not unified. Unified would be just one lord ruling the entire thing directly, not hundreds of independent fiefs loosely arranged into a highly unstable and ever shifting hierarchy.

Offline Askold

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Re: You go on a vacation...
« Reply #53 on: November 23, 2018, 12:32:55 am »
Since Knut the Great had a nation and he controlled England (as well as what is now known as Denmark and large parts of Norway and Sweden) and as has been established before, his nation was more advanced than the English one, clearly his descendants own England according to Jacob's silly ideas.
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Offline Skybison

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Re: You go on a vacation...
« Reply #54 on: November 23, 2018, 01:08:23 am »
The degree of advancement is whenever a civilization moves above tribal level and establishees a nation.

A tribe is a smaller group, consisting of a community and based on close blood ties. A nation contains multiple communities under a single unified government.

Like the Inca empire.

And the Aztecs.*

And the Iroquois Confederacy.

And tons more.

*Now you say the Aztecs don't count because of human sacrifice, but the problem here is that you call the Romans advanced and they also practiced human sacrifice, that's where the Gladiator games came from.  So if that doesn't stop the Romans from being advanced, then the Aztecs aren't either.

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Re: You go on a vacation...
« Reply #55 on: November 23, 2018, 01:18:37 am »
How about the Mughal Empire, for that matter? Or all of the nations in Southeast Asia that France sorta just ran over?
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Offline dpareja

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Re: You go on a vacation...
« Reply #56 on: November 23, 2018, 03:53:35 am »
Something something Christendom.
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Re: You go on a vacation...
« Reply #57 on: November 23, 2018, 06:27:17 am »
Something something Christendom.

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Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: You go on a vacation...
« Reply #58 on: November 23, 2018, 10:55:11 am »
Well the fact that it is a community indicates town/city density.
What, can you not read? Give me a fucking number, you little pervert. What specific town/city density defines a nation as opposed to a tribe?
And Feudalism is a unified government because the lords are under the authority of the King. Tribes are not unified because each tribe has a different chief.
It's a collection of completely independent clans with their own internal laws and military who pay a portion of their taxes and soldiers to their liege (not necessarily the king himself) and are kept in their subservient role by force. That's not unified. Unified would be just one lord ruling the entire thing directly, not hundreds of independent fiefs loosely arranged into a highly unstable and ever shifting hierarchy.

1. A tribe rather than being a specific number is a community which is a group of people living in the same location and are relatively related to each other. The size of the location and how closely related is also ambiguous however what is specific is the level of civilization.
Quote
Anthropologist Elman Service presented a system of classification for societies in all human cultures, based on the evolution of social inequality and the role of the state. This system of classification contains four categories:

Hunter-gatherer bands that are generally egalitarian
Tribal societies with some limited instances of social rank and prestige
Stratified tribal societies led by chieftains (see Chiefdom)
Civilizations, with complex social hierarchies and organized, institutional governments

So a tribal level of society is led by chieftains, while a nation has complex social hierarchies and organized institutional governments.

2. But the laws that the King makes apply to all the fiefs, so it has a unified institutional government. The lords are governors over their specific fief while the King governs the entire Kingdom.

Offline Jacob Harrison

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Re: You go on a vacation...
« Reply #59 on: November 23, 2018, 10:56:39 am »
Since Knut the Great had a nation and he controlled England (as well as what is now known as Denmark and large parts of Norway and Sweden) and as has been established before, his nation was more advanced than the English one, clearly his descendants own England according to Jacob's silly ideas.

But as I said, there is a certain degree of advancement that a civilization can achieve which makes it wrong to conquer them, and England reached that degree as it was a united nation, so it was wrong for Knut to conquer England.