Author Topic: Was Noah a traitor to humanity? Should he have told God where to shove his ark?  (Read 1029 times)

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Offline Gnostic Christian

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Was Noah a traitor to humanity? Should he have told God where to shove his ark?

Gnostic Christians like to reverse the usual verdicts that the bible shows as justice. We do this just for the sake of verification and agreement with what is posited as a good moral position, which is supposed to translate to ethical actions by believers. That is how we prove math and is a great way to prove the worthiness of the issues in the scriptures.

We do this because the bible says we should and we, as free thinkers and not sheeple, follow that bit of wisdom.   

I was sitting there the other day and wondered what I would do if I was Noah. It is all a much of course, as shown by the doublets, but regardless, it has lessons to teach.

Yahweh is set on a genocide of biblical proportions, fictions, and is asking me, and you, should you want to see what a believer thinks.

What would you do in this story? Can you somehow make Yahweh look good enough to adore as god?

I, in my Noah personae, after chatting with Yahweh, decided that the right thing to do was tell Yahweh to find another traitor to humanity.

I would change much in this world if I could. A Gnostic world is so much more peaceful and just. Bahhh. But given the power to be a new Adam would be sacrilegious. I would be assuming that there was a defect in the first Adam, and that is fully against the Christian side of my doctrine.

The real capital (G) God, the one who created Yahweh, the (most vile god of gods ), would not allow that given the perfection of man and imperfection in Yahweh.

Would you help Yahweh with his genocide of man, or would you tell him where to go.

Would you be a traitor to humanity?

Regards
DL

Offline niam2023

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Well, as a Shin Megami Tensei player, I'd tell him where to stick it - then beat him down.

I find the second game posits the most interesting series of events, even in the Law Path, which seems to set you on YHVH's path, even his own Angels find the things YHVH wants to do and has done to the Earth abominable. Thus resulting in Satan (separate from Lucifer owing to this game taking more from the early Jewish tradition that established them as separate beings) turning against his master and helping you put an end to the tyrant deity.

He however turns to salt in the process.

Depending on how much you liked Zayin, one half of Satan, and Satan himself, this could be a blow to the player.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2021, 02:23:37 am by niam2023 »
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Offline davedan

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But telling Yahweh where to stick his Ark simply results in you drowning. Which I guess is no loss if you are a gnostic in the sense of believing that the entirety of the material universe is flawed and the creation of the Demiurge and the only way to return to the divine spark is through enlightenment at death.

Personally I like living. I suspect I would probably be freaked out about having something that doesn't exist threaten the planet with something which couldn't physically happen. I assume that once I told Yahweh that the story was a metaphor and wasn't literally possible he would relax.

But I guess the flood story is just one of the many stories in the bible where God doesn't look so great to put among the rest, like the story of adam and eve, Exodus, the binding of Isaac or the book of Job.

Offline Sigmaleph

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The obvious sticking point is that the story does not imply Noah helped with the flood happening at all, he just happened to have been offered a way out. It's no betrayal of humanity to choose yourself living and everyone else dying over just "everyone dying".

You could claim that God wanted some group of survivors and would not have committed genocide unless someone agreed to build the arc, I suppose, that Noah refusing would in fact have saved anyone else. But then that raises the question, was God only going to offer that to Noah and stop otherwise, or was he going to shrug if he refused and offer it to someone else. Because, well, inevitably someone else would have said yes, so your choice is saving yourself and your family vs someone else getting to save themself and their family.

There's no obvious move Noah can take that results in no genocide, or even in saving a greater number of lives.
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Offline Askold

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Also, Noah did try to warn others.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Gnostic Christian

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But telling Yahweh where to stick his Ark simply results in you drowning. Which I guess is no loss if you are a gnostic in the sense of believing that the entirety of the material universe is flawed and the creation of the Demiurge and the only way to return to the divine spark is through enlightenment at death.

Personally I like living. I suspect I would probably be freaked out about having something that doesn't exist threaten the planet with something which couldn't physically happen. I assume that once I told Yahweh that the story was a metaphor and wasn't literally possible he would relax.

But I guess the flood story is just one of the many stories in the bible where God doesn't look so great to put among the rest, like the story of adam and eve, Exodus, the binding of Isaac or the book of Job.

Thanks for this.

I see that you know a bit of our Gnostic Christian myths.

Myths that we do not take literally and were just written to put against the Christian myth, before Christianity went stupid and started to read their myths literally.

Add to your knowledge with the truth of our beliefs, all myths aside, given that we hold no supernatural beliefs and base our beliefs on nature.

See if you can look that way.

Let me speak to the lie of Gnostic Christians hating matter.

I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religion’s originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.

The Christian reality.
1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.  16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it;  cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.
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The Gnostic Christian reality.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said,  "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.
[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL



Offline davedan

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I don't know enough about Multiverse theory to know whether or not we live in the only possible world/reality. I think my point of view differs in that I don't believe that everything has been created nor do I see a reason why it should be.

Offline Gnostic Christian

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I don't know enough about Multiverse theory to know whether or not we live in the only possible world/reality. I think my point of view differs in that I don't believe that everything has been created nor do I see a reason why it should be.

Be there things we still do not know, like a multiverse, does not negate the veracity of what I put.

That logic and reason stands on it's own and is irrefutable scientifically or religiously.

If it could be refuted, I would not see it as the truth.

Regards
DL