Sorry for taking so long to get to this, but I needed to be in the right frame of mind. And I'd like to think I'm reasonably close to being in the right frame of mind.
Seeing as how Zach's post was a direct call out to me, I feel the need to respond.
I'm sorry that it came across that way. I wasn't trying to challenge you or call you out. I was trying to be diplomatic and assure you that I don't think of otherkin struggles as being anywhere close to trans struggles. Apparently I failed spectacularly.
This distinction between spirit and mind is all good and well, except for the numerous short comings it has. First and foremost, I don't believe in spirits, or spectres, or souls.
That's fair. I don't expect you to believe me when I say anything I say. All I expect is understanding. Not belief.
Feel free to think it's bullshit. Fuck, half the people I'm friends with do, as well, and I'm fine with it because neither of us make a big deal out of it.
If spirits don't exist, then this whole distinction is dubious at best. At worst, it reverts the difference between otherkins/therians and ordinary people right back to being in the mind, which I will address later.
This is the point where I feel like you're trying to put words into my mouth.
You see, I do believe in spirits/souls/spectres, and I believe them to be distinctly different from the mind.
So to use this as a way to say that I am saying that I have the "mind of a dragon" is disingenous at best.
Second, I see this distinction as solely an ad hoc excuse to distance yourselves from criticism. Knowing that transpeople find such claims of "having an animal's brain" offensive, you (general) just move the goal posts further down the line and outside the range of our epistomological knowledge, but clearly a distinction exists between otherkins/therians and ordinary people, as I too will address later.
Except I'm not claiming I have an animal's brain (especially an animal that exists only in mythology.) This is the problem I have with your previous conclusion -- it makes people claim things they aren't claiming.
To me, this is the inherent flaw of your argument, and it presupposes that your beliefs (or lack thereof) are inherently superior to my beliefs.
The other fault that I find with even the "moderate and rational" otherkins/therians is that you two (Zach and Random) have both stated that this is either something "you are or something you aren't" and that it is "unchangeable" (see footnote #1). These statements differ drastically with any understanding of spirituality.
Not particularly.
Spirituality is something that one is in no way instilled with from birth.
There are several cultures where someone is born into spirituality. Some native cultures consider witch doctors and shamans to be born, not made. The idea of someone being born with a different spirit predates otherkin and therianthropy by thousands of years, no doubt.
Especially since some beliefs about reincarnation believe that the distinction between an animal soul and a human soul is non-existent -- huamns reincarnate into cows reincarnate into humans. Otherkin and therianthropy did not invent this.
According to you I just can't become a rabbit-kin.
And according to the Torah, no one can just become an Israelite. You have to be born one.
At this point, you're not saying that these things are spiritual, but they're an intrinsic part of yourself that you are projecting onto spirituality. A part of yourself so intrinsic it can't be changed or altered. For clarity, I see religion and spirituality as the same.
First of all, seeing religion and spirituality as the same is a bit incorrect. They are two different things... of sort. Religion tends to be organized spirituality + dogma, whereas spirituality is just that, spirituality.
The other dangerous thing with this "born this way" argument is that it legitimizes the very claims that you are trying to distance from otherkin/theriantropy. Saying that there is a legitimate difference that one is born with legitimizes the claims of those nutters seeking "species reassignment surgery."
Everything legitimizes some nutter. If we have to censor ourselves because some nutter might take it the wrong way, then no one can literally say anything on the internet. I live for myself. I can't base my life around what some people might find offensive, or might take off with to some absurd, moon-logic conclusion that doesn't make sense.
Even the very lack of ideas can encourage nutters. Atheist fundies exist. Should atheism be "censored" because it "might encourage the nutters?" NO! That would be stupid!
Saying that this difference exists actually puts those nuts on par with GID.
And I feel it doesn't.
For one thing, it's physically impossible for them to have the brain of an animal. Biology doesn't work that way. The only reason it's possible for GID is because having a male or female or intersex or nonsex brain is actually biologically possible for humans. Human brains don't spontaneously become animal brains.
For another, if they actually had animal brains, they wouldn't be blogging about how terrible their lives are and how they are oppressed and whatever.
Who is anyone else, especially one who doesn't feel these "soul-struggles" and "otherkin struggles," to deny them their claims? Even saying it is a "soul" thing is not much different as "hey, I just want to transition because I have a woman's soul" is the first thing that comes to mind.
People who understand even the basics of biology, that's who.
Identity comes from somewhere, saying that some separate identity comes from the soul is only moving it out of where it really comes from (the brain). Not to mention the difference between this identity coming from the brain or soul is superfluous if not non-existant.
I disagree.
Furthermore, I would like to point out that the people I criticized actually believe it's a brain thing. And that's dangerous.
The second reason I find this intrinsic-ness dangerous is that in legitimizing the claims of these nuts, you just reaffirm their delusions and could very well guide them away from getting the mental help they deserve. This is a perfect example of benign nonsense (you and Random) fueling the dangerous nonsense (nuts on tumblr). You can't say "we're born different" or "we can't help it" and then act like those idiots on tumblr are just getting such nonsense from thin air.
And if they weren't otherkin, they would be claiming to be transculture, or transrace, or whatever. These are people who are looking for something,
anything, that makes them special. Some of them would probably try to jump on the transgendered bandwagon, too, without actually being transgendered.
Not to mention, hey, even the trans* people have their nutters. Remember "Die, Cis, Scum?" Yeah. I don't consider them indicative of trans* people any more than I consider the tumblrkin to be indicative of otherkin.
Fact is, we don't just run around howling and freaking people out. We're... pretty normal, actually. My "struggles" amount to "What game do I want to play?" If anything, realizing that I'm "dragonkin" has brought me peace, not more struggles.
Finally, in an unrelated note, these nuts are doing a great disservice to transpeople in general. First, by making this something you are "born as" all you do is legitimize the bigots that trans-people have faced for the last, well forever.
I don't "legitimize" them anymore than the "die cis scum" people do.
Now, they can take away the "born this way argument" because you are also born this way.
Not only are you born this way, you don't seek to transition to be wolves and dragons, so why would anyone need to transition genders. Second they can assert that their "what's next, people wanting to be animals" claims correct since it literally happened.
People make claims about things as if it was the end of the world. They did it with gay marriage in regards to interracial marriage, they did it with bestiality in regards to gay marriage... People are stupid. I can't be held personally responsible for the stupidity of bigots.
Also, otherkins haven't been around "since tribal societies." The earliest known mention of them are from online groups in April 1990.
The word "otherkin" is probably very new. Research therianthropy, though.
Finally people who would normally be sympathetic to transpeople now see this nonsense and may think otherwise in their acceptance of us. And for what?
I sincerely doubt that anyone who would be sympathetic towards transpeople would be in any way swayed by the mere existence of otherkin. And if they are, then that is their fault.
First, I let the topic go to be nice. I don't like arguing about other people's beliefs. I walked away literally to spare you a tongue lashing. Returning to that point, other thing about that post is how it says "Soul-struggles as opposed to the fact that one's gender literally does not match one's sex."
I literally wish I could show you just how dumb that statement is.
Okay?
I wish I could explain how my earliest memory is being upset that I couldn't be Snow White for Halloween. I wish I could explain how when I wanted to grow my hair long as a 6 year old, my parents beat me and physically held me down while cutting my hair. Not to mention how traumatic that was. I wish you could know how terrible it is to repress yourself for almost 20 years, jumping through hoops just to make others happy. I wish I could explain getting envious to the point of crying of other women as they developed. I wish you could know the fear of seeing secondary sex characteristics develop before your eyes and wishing more than anything they would stop. I would like you to see how I cut myself at 13-15 just trying to control some of the pain I was feeling. I wish you could see me and how for the better part of the last decade I was high or drunk more often then I could explain just trying to forget my gender if not OD. I wish you could see how scared I was when I finally did come out to someone, how I was crying tears of fear that they would never speak to me again. I wish you could experience these things, because you can't imagine how much it sucks until you do.
I'm not sure what this has to do with what you just said.
That being said, I am aware that the struggles trans people face is unimaginable. Even as a gay man, what I have to face isn't nearly what you have to face. You have it bad from all sides of the fence.
I wish I could explain to you just how much I want to see transphobia end. I wish I could explain to you just how much I want to see transphobia stop in the gay community, the furry community, the brony community, ALL communities. The trans movement has always been near and dear to my heart, more near and dear than the gay movement even.
I'm an ally. I don't expect any cookies for it. I don't even expect any special recognition. I just want to see people stop being stupid about trans* issues and start being more accepting.
I may not know what it is like to be trans*. And I never will. And I'm sorry that I can't.
I doubt therian/otherkin groups have nearly the same suicide rate (30%) that transpeople do.
I doubt it, too.
I'm literally in tears right now because when you say things like "soul-struggles as opposed to gender struggles" it trivializes just how horrible my (and others) experiences are.
I'm sorry that it came across as trivializing. I was trying to do the opposite. Show just how different the two were, how they can't be compared, and how "soul struggles" don't amount anywhere close to the level of "gender struggles."
And for what, why does trivialization take place? I honestly don't know. My best guess is so you can be like those pagan kids in High School and rebel against Christianity.
This is a low blow on several levels, Queen.
First of all, I have never tried to trivialize Trans struggles. And it feels here like you're accusing me of doing so just to feel special about myself. Second of all, pagan kids in Christian families are at risk of many levels of abuse. Maybe not quite the abuse you went through.
To me, it feels like you're, right now, trivializing the struggles that pagan kids go through, dismissing it as a "counter culture" reaction. Nevermind that many of these kids could end up in the street, homeless, or worse simply because of their paganism.
There was one thing you said that was correct. There is a differences between gender struggles and soul struggles. One is real, the other isn't
And that's your worldview. And that's fine that you don't believe it's a real issue. Because honestly, it's not on the same level as trans*, like I've repeatedly said.
If you want to make this spiritual, then make it spiritual. Stop saying it's something you're "born as" or "something you can't change." Admit it's just meditation in your basement or having a spirit animal. Admit that anyone can be an otherkin/therian. And for the love of God, don't ever say "otherkin-struggles" again. When you say "I can't change who I am" and "If you have to ask, you aren't one" then you two have taken it out of the range of spiritual, not me.
I'm sorry, Queen. But I cannot lie about who I am. Nor will I change myself just because someone on the internet is offended.
But the fact of the matter is, trans* don't have a monopoly on "born this way." Homo/bi/hetero/asexuals have that claim, too, as do some shamans, Jews, and people who believe in reincarnation.
The fact of the matter is, I'm not against you. Me, Random, a lot of people here are on
your side. We're tired of otherkin who trivialize trans* struggles by trying to appropriate them. And quite frankly, I don't appreciate being lumped in with the people who do, because I have explicitly spoken out against it. That is why I said "soul struggles as opposed to gender struggles." Because they two are nowhere close to each other. The core of what I said agrees with what you said.
And I am sorry that a facet of my being is offensive to you. But I'm also sorry to say this, but you don't have the right to be not offended. And I am not going to accept blame for something that is not my fault. And I don't expect Random to, either.
In short, I want to say this:
Queen, we are not enemies. I was wrong to wait so long to reply to you. This is an issue we will probably have to agree to disagree on, because we may never come to an amicable conclusion on this. However, in light of recent events, I want to say that I haven't given you the respect you deserve.
You have been rather antagonistic lately, but I would be remiss in pointing out my own antagonism at times. I want to put the past behind us. I want us to be friends who simply disagree on this issue. Do you think that would be possible?