FSTDT Forums
Community => Politics and Government => Topic started by: KZN02 on November 05, 2013, 01:10:10 pm
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56HThf3mRpw
I think the title is maybe a little misleading, but it's mainly saying racists tend to be more likely to own guns.
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water is wet. Makes sense since the NRA was using the scary black man to market guns
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Fear is a powerful emotion
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I sense another gun debate on the horizon. Cuz I'm psychic like that.
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I sense another gun debate on the horizon. Cuz I'm psychic like that.
Hopefully we're smarter than tha... HAHAHAHAHAHA sorry, couldn't keep a straight face.
Also this makes sense. I wonder if homophobes are also more likely to be gun owners. And transphobes.
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I sense another gun debate on the horizon. Cuz I'm psychic like that.
I'm surprised at the current likes dislike ratio.
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I don't have one currently, but I don't have anything against people who do as long as they know what the hell they're doing. It's dumbasses with guns that scare me.
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I don't have anything against people who do as long as they know what the hell they're doing. It's dumbasses with guns that scare me.
Agreed.
Some people should not be allowed to have anything more dangerous than a 5cm piece of string.
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On a related note, I heard last night that white men who are stopped by the cops for suspicious activity are more likely to be carrying guns than black men, because when cops stop white men, it's because they're actually acting suspicious, whereas the threshold for what it considered "suspicious" behavior is much lower for black men.
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Participant bias, the spanner in the works, for survey methodology.
Mean scores for symbolic racism, and to a lesser extent the race IAT, indicated anti-black sentiment; however, participants had mean scores considerably below the midpoint of scoring for the stereotype that ‘blacks are violent’. (http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0077552)
There are several possible reasons for the absence of multivariate associations between the stereotype of blacks as violent and race-IAT, and gun outcomes. There is considerable debate in the field regards the validity and predictive qualities of implicit measures with critical reviews and reanalyses showing weak or no association between implicit and explicit measures, and outcomes [39], [40]. Others demonstrate that non-attitudinal factors, such as, stimuli familiarity, cognitive ability, and fear of appearing racist also account for individual differences in IAT scores, that may in turn affect associations with outcome variables [39]–[43]. The implicit association test is also a conceptually difficult task for some to learn, and particularly the brief race-IAT used in the ANES which restricts training on this computerized measure [41]. Given the mean D score for the ANES race-IAT (.17) is more than twice as small as from any other studies, including one in medical doctors [44], it is also possible that participants may not have completed this complex computerized task correctly. Other authors have noted this problem with the ANES race-IAT data [45]. (http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0077552)
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Basically that statistics jargon. Blacks get stopped more actually do fewer bad things
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I sense another gun debate on the horizon. Cuz I'm psychic like that.
About time we had another gun control debate. I've noticed FQA likes to tiptoe very carefully around that subject because a tiny fraction of forum members go absolutely apeshit defending the second amendment.
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It's not that we are scared, just that we have had the debate multiple times and no progress has been made. Also, yeah obviously people who are scared and think a race war is going to break (or something like that) are more likely to buy a gun.
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I sense another gun debate on the horizon. Cuz I'm psychic like that.
About time we had another gun control debate. I've noticed FQA likes to tiptoe very carefully around that subject because a tiny fraction of forum members go absolutely apeshit defending the second amendment.
I'm inclined to agree. Every time a mass shooting happens, the NRA and gun humpers say "it's too emotional a time to talk about this issue." So, why not now?
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Yeah, I'm with Queen and Chew here. Everyone seems afraid to talk about this, and I don't get it. Guns are not sacred, and discussing the issues associated with them is not some crime.
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Because doing the same action over and over again and expecting results is the definition of insanity, that's why.
No one's afraid. We're tired of the polarizing nature of the issue. We're tired of people demanding people file into sides.
We're just tired. And quite frankly, some people are just way too eager to start flame wars and start labeling people over subjects like this.
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I don't feel like arguing in this thread as I've said my opinion multiple times before. However, I will say I'm going to a huge gun show this weekend (Yes, Ill post anything cool that I buy) and there are usually a couple people with booths selling all manner of books. These range from user manuals on common models of guns, general maintenance manuals, price guides, hunting books, camping and wilderness survival, and sometimes "controversial" books like the Anarchist Cookbook. The latter are almost certainly for dipshit teenagers who think that thing is cool, as anyone with a brain knows not to listen to a damn thing it says. A couple of the book sellers occasionally have copies of "The Turner Diaries". I have a feeling this is also because it sells good because it's considered "controversial" and taboo. Controversial always sells shit. Regardless, I never buy from those vendors.
I want to be clear, these kind of things are far from the norm. Most vendors are like the guy that sells pocket knives at the flea market. There's also the same amount of shitty, low quality, overpriced knives for sale.
Last year I was talking to one of the vendors and he said earlier that morning some dipshit came in wearing a shirt saying that said " I fucking did meth" or something. He was promptly kicked out.
Let's see, last years purchases included two books (one of which turned out to be shit), two zombie shelter signs, a replica fallout shelter sign, a lock pick set, and some Zombie Response Team patches for a jacket. This year I'm hoping to get even more stuff and me and my friend usually spend most of the day walking the entire event. I like going about as much as the state fair (also held at the same location).
My point I guess is that although there a a hand full of crazies(out of 1000+ vendors), it is not the circus of insane shit I've heard people say it is, nor is there any of that crazy shit you heard about sold. There are rocket launchers, at least it you count high quality non-functional models. There's tank shells, but they're dummies made of wood and over 60 years old (Yes, I want one).
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Because doing the same action over and over again and expecting results is the definition of insanity, that's why.
The insanity argument can apply to anything, and is therefore meaningless.
No one's afraid. We're tired of the polarizing nature of the issue. We're tired of people demanding people file into sides.
The "controversy" is between second amendment fundies and everybody else. Any time a discussion is made in a public forum, the fundies try to shout everyone else down. Why not let people say what they're going to say?
We're just tired. And quite frankly, some people are just way too eager to start flame wars and start labeling people over subjects like this.
I don't care if it's in Flame and Burn or how many people have their feelings hurt as long as there's a debate.
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So what the study is suggesting is not that most gun owners are racist but rather racists are more likely than the average person to own guns?
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I'm pretty sure I've said this before but I'll say it again: this is one of those topics that everyone's already picked out their sides on the issue and they have no intention of changing their minds so all this "debate" boils down to is a thinly veiled "You're an asshole" statement. Nothing ever changes except for the resentment that comes from it so it's one of those things just best left alone unless you're actively seeking a drama-fest.
As for the study, I'm not totally sure but I think Rabbit's got it pretty much pegged and I can't find myself surprised.
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Gotta say that Rabbit's nailed this one as well.
I'm not keen on doing these because far too often, they degenerate into flamefests, and that gets silly the 100th time it happens. So...give me a bit. I'll be typing up something on firearms. Ideally, it'll be ready later tonight. We'll see. When it is ready, I'll post a link on this thread.
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I'm pretty sure I've said this before but I'll say it again: this is one of those topics that everyone's already picked out their sides on the issue and they have no intention of changing their minds so all this "debate" boils down to is a thinly veiled "You're an asshole" statement. Nothing ever changes except for the resentment that comes from it so it's one of those things just best left alone unless you're actively seeking a drama-fest.
This.
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And as for the actual gun discussion I personally feel like it's beating a dead horse at this point. The conversations have been had--pages upon pages of arguments all going nowhere. That's how I remember it anyway.
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It's up to y'all. If the thread takes off, It'll either be left here or moved to Flame and Burn, depending on how it develops. If it doesn't it'll just sink into oblivion.
Either way, at this point I don't mind one way or 't other.
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Because doing the same action over and over again and expecting results is the definition of insanity, that's why.
The insanity argument can apply to anything, and is therefore meaningless.
The key point is that while you do that same thing repeatedly you expect DIFFERENT results.
That's why it applies to insanity rather than "everything." I drink tap water quite often but I never expect it to turn into soda or cucumber as I pour it into my glass. Neither am I expecting it to make me float or learn spanish. That would be insane. When I pour my self a glass of water and drink it the only expectations I have are that it will hydrate me and quench my thirst.
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Okay, this is the initial work. I'll clean it up and make it neat when I'm not in a cold medicine haze.
http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=5159.0
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So what the study is suggesting is not that most gun owners are racist but rather racists are more likely than the average person to own guns?
It kinda enforces what I believe, that gun ownership isn't the problem, but gun fetishism is symptomatic of a problem particular of white male entitlement issues.
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So what the study is suggesting is not that most gun owners are racist but rather racists are more likely than the average person to own guns?
It kinda enforces what I believe, that gun ownership isn't the problem, but gun fetishism is symptomatic of a problem particular of white male entitlement issues.
I think you may be onto something here.
I am reminded how after the Washington Naval yard shooting took place none of the normal NSA talking points cropped up. Not to mention how at the same time the news jumped on the race angle of the story despite the incident being the best example of how flawed the normal NSA gun control taking points are.
However is the gun fetishism really a white entitlement issue? I think you are onto something, but I think the issue is more complex. Just like how racists are more likely to buy a gun and vote for concealed carry laws, staunch anti government people do the same. I think there is this fetishistic belief that owning a gun will allow someone to overcome something they don't like. It feeds this delusion that they can be hero's, keeping the evil communist government at bay, or protecting their things from the evil black criminals.
I wonder if it is the no consequence fantasy of the modern action movie, or the general gun consumerism culture of America that has bred this kind of thinking.
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Because doing the same action over and over again and expecting results is the definition of insanity, that's why.
The insanity argument can apply to anything, and is therefore meaningless.
The key point is that while you do that same thing repeatedly you expect DIFFERENT results.
That's why it applies to insanity rather than "everything." I drink tap water quite often but I never expect it to turn into soda or cucumber as I pour it into my glass. Neither am I expecting it to make me float or learn spanish. That would be insane. When I pour my self a glass of water and drink it the only expectations I have are that it will hydrate me and quench my thirst.
That saying is shit. Seriously. I hate it with the force of a thousand fucking suns.
You know what I call doing the same thing again and again, expecting different results? Practice. Yeah, apparently, if you want to get good at something and aren't the very first time you try it, you have to be mad.
Shitty saying.
You may now return to your previous discussion.
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Speaking of which, why is it that every time one of these threads come up, another "I will not be demonized" (http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=5159.msg205382#new) pops up?
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Speaking of which, why is it that every time one of these threads come up, another "I will not be demonized" (http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=5159.msg205382#new) pops up?
Sorry Queen, but that links to (so far) two very well written and thought out posts about gun safety practices. Just don't see anything defensive or "gun nut apologist" in them.
I'm very much in favor of whatever regulations and screening and background check laws that are enforceable to lower gun violence and accidents being enacted nation wide. Getting easy-to-understand safety tips and rules of ownership out there to the public is probably much more effective in tamping down the deadly stupid shit we see in re gun violence and accidents. Since the weapons are already ubiquitous, educating people on safety to counteract the American gun=empowerment mentality by explaining just how they work, and how dangerous they can be, and how to handle them in a more safe and responsible manner is a public service.
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Speaking of which, why is it that every time one of these threads come up, another "I will not be demonized" (http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=5159.msg205382#new) pops up?
Sorry Queen, but that links to (so far) two very well written and thought out posts about gun safety practices. Just don't see anything defensive or "gun nut apologist" in them.
1. Would that thread even exist but-for the existence of this one?
2. There are also at least 2 or 3 examples from the past I could pull, so at this point, it is a trend.
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Speaking of which, why is it that every time one of these threads come up, another "I will not be demonized" (http://fqa.digibase.ca/index.php?topic=5159.msg205382#new) pops up?
Sorry Queen, but that links to (so far) two very well written and thought out posts about gun safety practices. Just don't see anything defensive or "gun nut apologist" in them.
1. Would that thread even exist but-for the existence of this one?
2. There are also at least 2 or 3 examples from the past I could pull, so at this point, it is a trend.
If you do feel like pulling up examples, do it in F&B.
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I sense another gun debate on the horizon. Cuz I'm psychic like that.
Personally, I think another gun debate should be framed with the question 'Should we be using lightsabres instead?'
Personally, I say yes.
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If the second half of a question is "... or lightsabers." Lightsabers are always the right answer.
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I sense another gun debate on the horizon. Cuz I'm psychic like that.
Personally, I think another gun debate should be framed with the question 'Should we be using lightsabres instead?'
Personally, I say yes.
(http://replygif.net/i/218.gif)
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What about... A gun that shoots lightsabers? No no... A gun that shoots chainsaws made of lightsabers.
... That are on fire!
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What about... A gun that shoots lightsabers? No no... A gun that shoots chainsaws made of lightsabers.
... That are on fire!
A BEAR WITH CHAINSAWS FOR ARMS!
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What about... A gun that shoots lightsabers? No no... A gun that shoots chainsaws made of lightsabers.
... That are on fire!
A BEAR WITH CHAINSAWS FOR ARMS!
An bear with a bulletproof vest, raping your churches and burning your women!
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What about... A gun that shoots lightsabers? No no... A gun that shoots chainsaws made of lightsabers.
... That are on fire!
A BEAR WITH CHAINSAWS FOR ARMS!
An bear with a bulletproof vest, raping your churches and burninating your women!
Fixed.
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Eh, I still don't know why there shouldnt be background checks, waiting times between purchase, bans on semi-automatic or automatic weapons. Legislated requirements for storage, ie gun safes separate from ammunition (also in safe).
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Eh, I still don't know why there shouldnt be background checks, waiting times between purchase, bans on semi-automatic or automatic weapons. Legislated requirements for storage, ie gun safes separate from ammunition (also in safe).
Because you hate freedom you cracker!
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Eh, I still don't know why there shouldnt be background checks, waiting times between purchase, bans on semi-automatic or automatic weapons. Legislated requirements for storage, ie gun safes separate from ammunition (also in safe).
There are, those vary by state, that's fucking stupid, the requirement to get those are high to say nothing of price, separate safes are debatably unnecessary, and I think some states have full rebates for safes, respectively.
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Okay I'm just gonna say one thing then dissapear into the night. Red states tend to not care as much about mental health of the gun buyers
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Red states tend to not care as much about mental health in general. Of course, blue states aren't that much better, however.
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welll its more of the minimal standards of making sure crazy people don't get guns are not followed in red states (I don't have the stat on me but blue states are 90% of submitted checks)
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I'm not sure how having the ammo stored in a different safe would help things much. Obtaining ammo is easier than obtaining guns, wether legally (having someone else buy it for you for example) or even from illegally.
And despite being "pro-gun" by Finnish standards I'm way too pro-regulation by the US standards. Though I'm more into regulating the gun licenses than the types of guns.
And I'm going to say it again, the second amendment of USA is utterly outdated and insane. There should be tests to make sure who can own a gun and selling guns should definitely be regulated and SEVERELY observed to make sure there isn't any fishy business. (That some states have laws PREVENTING the regulation of gun sales is just crazy.)
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So what the study is suggesting is not that most gun owners are racist but rather racists are more likely than the average person to own guns?
It kinda enforces what I believe, that gun ownership isn't the problem, but gun fetishism is symptomatic of a problem particular of white male entitlement issues.
I think you may be onto something here.
I am reminded how after the Washington Naval yard shooting took place none of the normal NSA talking points cropped up. Not to mention how at the same time the news jumped on the race angle of the story despite the incident being the best example of how flawed the normal NSA gun control taking points are.
However is the gun fetishism really a white entitlement issue? I think you are onto something, but I think the issue is more complex. Just like how racists are more likely to buy a gun and vote for concealed carry laws, staunch anti government people do the same. I think there is this fetishistic belief that owning a gun will allow someone to overcome something they don't like. It feeds this delusion that they can be hero's, keeping the evil communist government at bay, or protecting their things from the evil black criminals.
I wonder if it is the no consequence fantasy of the modern action movie, or the general gun consumerism culture of America that has bred this kind of thinking.
Personally, I don't think gun fetishism is solely a white entitlement issue or solely male entitlement issue, but on a national scales it is symptomatic of white male entitlement. A lot of gun nut rhetoric revolves around protecting "our community" from "those people" from the inner city, even though gun violence happen in their community too. Likewise, the Teabaggers brannishing their guns to protect us from a dirty foreign liberal plays into it. It's all about making sure these particular set of white men are heard and bowed down too even at the cost of other people's live.
Of course, gun fetishism is also symptomatic of problems with men of color too. Like you say, the issue is far more complex.