Awesome Protest Signs

[LeTipex]

Honestly, I see little difference between "die cis scum" and "hang blacks."  Venting is all well and good, but the line stops where you start calling for the death of an entire people.  Just because a black man stole your television, or a cissexual shopkeep refused you business doesn't mean you get to go around spewing hate speech without repercussion.  There's a vast difference between being an "in your face" activist and being a hatemonger.  If you go around regularly saying "die cis scum" unironically, then you're as much a hatemonger as the Grand Wizard of the KKK.  I'll defend to the death your right to say it, but I reserve the right to think of you as little better than your oppressors and call you an asshole as a result.

Pretty much this.

[SpaceProg]

^This and ^^That.

[Sigmaleph]

Honestly, I see little difference between "die cis scum" and "hang blacks."

I can see at least one huge difference. The number of cis people killed for being cis is negligible (possibly zero), whereas the number of black people killed for being black is not.

[Ghoti]

^This. The reason I'm not bothered by "die cis scum" is because no one (or almost no one) has any intent of killing people they deem "cis scum". Somobe who says "die trannies" is much more likely to have genuine malicious intent behind his/her statement, because s/he is operating from a position of power. If a cis person murders a trans person (especially a trans woman, it seems), they are much more likely to be considered "justified" than the opposite. Throw in what Sigma said, and it becomes increasingly clear that the people who get the most bent out of shape about "die cis scum" are the most likely to be cis scum. Before anyone gets the torches and pitchforks, let me clarify that most cis people are not cis scum. It's absolutely possible to be cis and benefit from cis privilege without being cis scum, just like it's absolutely possible to be white and benefit from white privilege without being racist. People who are simply curious/insensitive/uneducated are usually not cis scum, while people like the Cathy Brennan and the majority of the GOP are.

[LeTipex]

Honestly, I see little difference between "die cis scum" and "hang blacks."

I can see at least one huge difference. The number of cis people killed for being cis is negligible (possibly zero), whereas the number of black people killed for being black is not.

So "die cis scum" is closer to "kill whitey" than to "hang blacks". Sorry, doesn't make it better in my ear.

^This. The reason I'm not bothered by "die cis scum" is because no one (or almost no one) has any intent of killing people they deem "cis scum". Somobe who says "die trannies" is much more likely to have genuine malicious intent behind his/her statement, because s/he is operating from a position of power.

Are you really saying "having privilege makes you more likely to want to kill others"? Because that's what I'm reading here.

If a cis person murders a trans person (especially a trans woman, it seems), they are much more likely to be considered "justified" than the opposite.

That has nothing to do with the fact that the phrase "die cis scum" is horrible and inappropriate.

Throw in what Sigma said, and it becomes increasingly clear that the people who get the most bent out of shape about "die cis scum" are the most likely to be cis scum.

So, to respond the same way I responded to Sigma up there : a white guy offended at a black guy saying "kill whitey" must be a racist? Or at least, according to your own reasonning, white scum?

Before anyone gets the torches and pitchforks, let me clarify that most cis people are not cis scum. It's absolutely possible to be cis and benefit from cis privilege without being cis scum, just like it's absolutely possible to be white and benefit from white privilege without being racist. People who are simply curious/insensitive/uneducated are usually not cis scum, while people like the Cathy Brennan and the majority of the GOP are.

I kinda agree with that last part.

And that being said, I'm bowing out of this discussion.

[Sigmaleph]

Honestly, I see little difference between "die cis scum" and "hang blacks."

I can see at least one huge difference. The number of cis people killed for being cis is negligible (possibly zero), whereas the number of black people killed for being black is not.

So "die cis scum" is closer to "kill whitey" than to "hang blacks". Sorry, doesn't make it better in my ear.

It does in mine*. "Hang blacks" or "die trannies" or "kill faggots" are things people have actually done and felt justified in doing because of a prevailing culture of hatred against the relevant group. They are not empty threats.

A cis person hearing "die cis scum" can feel disgust, or offence, or find it in poor taste, but they have no genuine reason to fear for their lives, or for that matter any repercussion more serious that having an unpleasant conversation.


*With the clarification that "better" does not mean "good". You don't have to like the phrase "die cis scum" to think the comparison to "hang blacks" et al. is ridiculous.

[solar.]

I've said things like "I hate straight people" when I'm feeling depressed because of homophobia, but I don't actually hate all straight people. I imagine "die cis scum" is the same thing. Nobody is actually calling for all cis people to die.

[kefkaownsall]

I say I hate cis people a lot but I dont mean it just i feel mad sometimes when I hear stories

[mellenORL]

Having witnessed a transwoman friend go through some extreme, but unfortunately recurrent, bad experiences at the hands and mouths of ignorant cis people, I have complete sympathy for a trans* person who has gone through the same hell, day in and day out, all their lives. When you not only feel like you are struggling to survive in a sea full of assholes and bullies - but fucking well actually are - it's easy to understand that ya gotta vent now and then. Is it a polite term? Does it make people stop and think about changing their hateful attitudes? No. But so what....Cis people don't have to deal with this particular kind of shit. This kind of shit gets condoned or passively whitewashed by an awful lot of people who witness it, because they feel the same way, or just don't care enough to get involved. And so trans* people get insulted, discriminated against, harassed, beaten and killed every day. No wonder some scream "Die cis scum" online or IRL. If you as a cis person actually are more than maybe just a little annoyed by the term, you have some serious issues in re the lack of spinal resilience. It smacks of a "White Whine" reaction.

[Ultimate Paragon]

I say I hate cis people a lot but I dont mean it just i feel mad sometimes when I hear stories

If you don't mean it, don't say it.

Having witnessed a transwoman friend go through some extreme, but unfortunately recurrent, bad experiences at the hands and mouths of ignorant cis people, I have complete sympathy for a trans* person who has gone through the same hell, day in and day out, all their lives. When you not only feel like you are struggling to survive in a sea full of assholes and bullies - but fucking well actually are - it's easy to understand that ya gotta vent now and then. Is it a polite term? Does it make people stop and think about changing their hateful attitudes? No. But so what....Cis people don't have to deal with this particular kind of shit. This kind of shit gets condoned or passively whitewashed by an awful lot of people who witness it, because they feel the same way, or just don't care enough to get involved. And so trans* people get insulted, discriminated against, harassed, beaten and killed every day. No wonder some scream "Die cis scum" online or IRL. If you as a cis person actually are more than maybe just a little annoyed by the term, you have some serious issues in re the lack of spinal resilience. It smacks of a "White Whine" reaction.

I feel for your friend.  However, while saying that may be a form of catharsis, it's not helping trans rights.  Most cis people are not assholes, and saying that kind of shit only makes the people who say it look like shitheads.  Therein lies my point, this isn't really about cis people's feelings, it's more about trans people's image.

[solar.]

Cis people have no right to talk about trans peoples' "image" when they are just as violent, if not even more so, than trans people.

[mellenORL]

Ultimate Paragon, your snide comment to kefkaownsall is about to result in you being virtually curb-stomped by this entire forum.

Just a friendly warning, there, and to remind you that all kinds of people post here, some with disabilities, whether neural or physical, and that may affect their ability to post perfectly typed and spelt posts.

Fuck you and your pseudo "Christian" paragonism, you snide little trolling shit...

ADDENDUM - since Ultimate Paragon has redacted/removed and apologized for what was originally a very insulting comment to kefka, my post earlier here will seem odd. Take my word for it, it was a bad and rude slap at kefka, hence my angry reaction.

[Ultimate Paragon]

Cis people have no right to talk about trans peoples' "image" when they are just as violent, if not even more so, than trans people.

You're really not helping your case, you know that?

[Ultimate Paragon]

Ultimate Paragon, your snide comment to kefkaownsall is about to result in you being virtually curb-stomped by this entire forum.

Just a friendly warning, there, and to remind you that all kinds of people post here, some with disabilities, whether neural or physical, and that may affect there ability to post perfectly typed and spelt posts.

Fuck you and your pseudo "Christian" paragonism, you snide little trolling shit...

He's disabled?  I'm sorry, I didn't know.  If I did, I wouldn't have said that.  Comment retracted.

[solar.]

Cis people have no right to talk about trans peoples' "image" when they are just as violent, if not even more so, than trans people.

You're really not helping your case, you know that?

To be honest, neither are you.