The Trial of George Zimmerman

[ironbite]

So again, because Martin feared for his own life, as Zimmerman did in this case, because he's black he has no right to stand his ground.

Ironbite-as per Florida law.

[kefkaownsall]

I will point out that Florida's law was written by a man who is part of a group called Sons of Confederate Soldiers. 

[mellenORL]

Not defending Senator Peaden's SOCS membership, but he has repeatedly expressed serious objections to how the law has been used in courts, especially in the case of Zimmerman;

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57401619-504083/author-of-stand-your-ground-law-george-zimmerman-should-probably-be-arrested-for-killing-trayvon-martin/

Note especially that he says Zimmerman lost any right to SYG the moment he began following Martin.

Regardless, the way Judge Nelson instructed the jury, after being psyched out by O'Mara and West waving about the chance of a judicial error finding of mistrial and thereby reversal, citing from a different case, she then excluded portions of the SYG statutes for their use in reaching a verdict. The  wording they had left to work with is so open to interpretation - if defendant "believes" they are in danger, even if not in "actual" danger - that it left a huge hole through which Zimmerman pranced his way to freedom. That the jury was initially split 3 to 3 on guilty versus not leaves me with some hope that the very thing Nelson feared - a future charge of procedural, legal error leading to an embarrassing reversal of her rulings and declaration of mistrial, may very well occur. West and O'Mara are slick, psychologically manipulative geniuses. They succeeded in having the law interpreted to their client's advantage, only.

[m52nickerson]

So again, because Martin feared for his own life, as Zimmerman did in this case, because he's black he has no right to stand his ground.

Ironbite-as per Florida law.

The issue is that there was no way for the state to show Martin feared for his life.  The defense argued that had Martin feared for his life he would have gone directly back the house he was staying.

[ironbite]

So again, Martin did not have the right to stand his ground.

Ironbite-is that what you're saying?

[Askold]

Actually that is a good point. If Martin should have escaped from danger (rather than, shall we say "stand his ground") then why was it ok for Zimmerman to seek confrontation and shoot rather than escape when he got scared of the scary black man?

And because I am an evil, evil man:

(click to show/hide)

[R. U. Sirius]

Because Martin was black.

[m52nickerson]

Actually that is a good point. If Martin should have escaped from danger (rather than, shall we say "stand his ground") then why was it ok for Zimmerman to seek confrontation and shoot rather than escape when he got scared of the scary black man?

The law says you can stand your ground, however the defense's argument was that a reasonable person if in fear for his life would get to someplace safe if they could.  Zimmerman did not fear for his life until he was on the ground with Martin on top of him, and thus could not just run away. 

Because Martin was black.

People keep saying this, but I'm not buying it.  The state simply did not have the evidence to convict Zimmerman under the law.

[Askold]

Actually that is a good point. If Martin should have escaped from danger (rather than, shall we say "stand his ground") then why was it ok for Zimmerman to seek confrontation and shoot rather than escape when he got scared of the scary black man?

The law says you can stand your ground, however the defense's argument was that a reasonable person if in fear for his life would get to someplace safe if they could.  Zimmerman did not fear for his life until he was on the ground with Martin on top of him, and thus could not just run away. 

So Zimmerman's defense argued against Stand your ground.

Got it.

[m52nickerson]

So again, Martin did not have the right to stand his ground.

Ironbite-is that what you're saying?

If Martin attacked Zimmerman first, no he did not.

If Zimmerman attacked first, yes he did.

[m52nickerson]

Actually that is a good point. If Martin should have escaped from danger (rather than, shall we say "stand his ground") then why was it ok for Zimmerman to seek confrontation and shoot rather than escape when he got scared of the scary black man?

The law says you can stand your ground, however the defense's argument was that a reasonable person if in fear for his life would get to someplace safe if they could.  Zimmerman did not fear for his life until he was on the ground with Martin on top of him, and thus could not just run away. 

So Zimmerman's defense argued against Stand your ground.

Got it.

They argued against any stand your ground claim Martin may have had.

[ironbite]

Fucking being attacked.  What about being followed by a suspicious looking guy in a truck?

Ironbite-did Martin in fact feared for his life?

[m52nickerson]

Fucking being attacked.  What about being followed by a suspicious looking guy in a truck?

Ironbite-did Martin in fact feared for his life?

Know one knows if he did or not.  Not knowing helped Zimmerman.  Personally I still think Zimmerman grabbed Martin first giving Martin every right to defend himself.  However there is no way to prove that and I, as well as everyone else, maybe wrong.

[Auri-El]

Actually that is a good point. If Martin should have escaped from danger (rather than, shall we say "stand his ground") then why was it ok for Zimmerman to seek confrontation and shoot rather than escape when he got scared of the scary black man?

The law says you can stand your ground, however the defense's argument was that a reasonable person if in fear for his life would get to someplace safe if they could.  Zimmerman did not fear for his life until he was on the ground with Martin on top of him, and thus could not just run away. 

Except he wouldn't have been in that situation if he hadn't chased Martin down. And if I understand it right, Martin had no obligation to retreat and was perfectly within his rights to defend himself. Regardless of who threw the first punch, if it was Martin, I still think Zimmerman should have been held responsible for putting Martin in a position where he thought he had to attack Zimmerman to protect himself. I doubt Martin went out that night looking for a fight, unlike Zimmerman.

[m52nickerson]

Except he wouldn't have been in that situation if he hadn't chased Martin down. And if I understand it right, Martin had no obligation to retreat and was perfectly within his rights to defend himself. Regardless of who threw the first punch, if it was Martin, I still think Zimmerman should have been held responsible for putting Martin in a position where he thought he had to attack Zimmerman to protect himself. I doubt Martin went out that night looking for a fight, unlike Zimmerman.

It is a doubled edged sword.  Martin did have the right to stand his ground, but it is reasonable to think a person who feared for their live would go to safety if he had a chance.  This was brought up in the case of the women who got 20 years for firing at her husband.  The prosecution brought up the fact that she passed multiply ways to escape while on her way to get her gun.