FSTDT Forums
Community => Entertainment and Television => Topic started by: Askold on May 25, 2015, 12:55:34 pm
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http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/5/the-online-game-that-proves-the-web-is-not-a-post-racial-utopia.html
Once upon a time some developers released a game called Rust. The game wasn't quite finished but it was playable and in the game people would try to survive in the wilderness. When it was released people could only play with a white male avatar, but most people did not complain since it is quite common in games to only be able to play a white male character.
...Then there came an update. In this update people got the option to also play as a black male character, although "option" might not be the right word to use. You see, when you made a character the skin colour would be randomly generated and people could only alter few minor details of appearance.
This caused an outrage as people were forced, FORCED I TELL YOU, to play a character that does not share the colour of their skin. This was seen as a problem as people were not given the right to choose an avatar that would more closely resemble their real appearance. At least with one minor detail that is.
(http://america.aljazeera.com/content/ajam/opinions/2015/5/the-online-game-that-proves-the-web-is-not-a-post-racial-utopia/jcr:content/mainpar/adaptiveimage_0/src.adapt.960.high.Rust2.1432404795327.jpg)
Yes. If the colour of your skin truly is not important then why, WHY, would the developers not allow you to choose it? After all, they already have white characters in the game so it would not be much extra work for them to allow the player to choose this option. Just like you could make a female character in a game and it would not be much extra work from the developers either...
(http://america.aljazeera.com/content/ajam/opinions/2015/5/the-online-game-that-proves-the-web-is-not-a-post-racial-utopia/jcr:content/mainpar/adaptiveimage_2/src.adapt.960.high.Rust4.1432404795327.jpg)
See? This guy knows it, being forced to play a game, watch a movie or a TV show where the main character does not share the colour of your skin is horrible. How are you supposed to connect with the characters? WHY CAN'T THERE BE MORE MAIN CHARACTER THAT ARE: White, male and preferably heterosexual. Why won't these...
...I can't do it anymore. The irony is killing me and I think everyone* already got the point. The first time that white men find a game where they can't play a character that is also a white man they start bitching about the lack of representation and using the exact same points that people have been using to complain when there is a lack of representation of black characters. ...Or non-heterosexual characters ...Or disabled characters. In fact, when there is a lack of representation of anything other than white-male characters these same reasons are brought up but now they still don't get the point.
*Apart from those commenters
PS: And I really don't think there is (much) racism in this. They just don't realize how important representation is in media even when they themselves suffer from the same problem. They really can't think of how others could feel about any issues. And I believe this explains much of the institutional racism and other opression in the world. People just don't realize how they are harming others.
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Speaking as a white man, I have absolutely no problem playing as non-white characters.
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You said skin color was randomly determined, right? Why not simply restart if you get an appearance you don't like? How far into the game is it determined? Granted, I agree it's stupid to get upset over it, but even more-so if you can get around that.
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You said skin color was randomly determined, right? Why not simply restart if you get an appearance you don't like? How far into the game is it determined? Granted, I agree it's stupid to get upset over it, but even more-so if you can get around that.
If I understood right the character's appearance is locked to your Steam ID.
This is a rare instance where a game design choice can legitimately be said to detract from a gaming experience in order to make a point about a social issue. It's one thing to have just one protagonist to play but having variability in the character appearance and denying the players any choice in the issue is actively taking away something players legitimately expect to have. Whether this trade-off adds or detracts from the overall quality of the game is an issue that is up to everyone's personal tastes. The racists shouldn't be let to dominate the debate since the point the developers are making deserves a real and open discussion that shouldn't be a battle of strawmen (SJWs vs racists).
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If I'm able to alter the way a playable character looks, I do tend to want to make them look like me. Call it living vicariously through my in-game avatar. I'm white, dark-haired, and kinda short. I don't think I'd be wanting to alter my changeable character to be black, blonde, and 6' 5".
I don't know if this is really about race so much as lack of customization ability.
Meh, I don't play Rust, so it's really no big deal to me either way it goes, but I can see both sides of the issue, and it's kinda rash to immediately demonize people who don't want to play as X random-looking character if there could be a possibility of playing as how you look, or would like to look in real life.
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Yes, this detracts from some people's gaming experience.
...But the point is that back when everyone looked like a white guy no one had a problem with it, it was only when some players got a black character that there was an outrage. If I pick any random game that has only one playable character (Max Payne series for example) the odds are that it is going to be a white man (there are exceptions, but the majority of main characters are white guys, particularly when there is no opportunity to customize them.) And when people complain about representation in games, when people complain about lack of diversity in games they are told that it does not matter. Now when these players got a black character they finally realized how it feels not to be able to have a character that shares your ethnicity in a game and they are using the exact same justifications to complain about their inability to play as a white guy AND as they defend themselves from racism accusations they use the same justifications that are commonly used to defend the lack of characters that aren't white males.
Remember a while ago when a company said that making a female character for a game would have been too much trouble? Remember all those times when any movie/comic character's ethnicity has been changed? This is a hot issue but the very first time these guys suffer from lack of representation in a game they start a riot but still don't understand why OTHER PEOPLE also want to be able to play as someone who looks like them.
And I am not trying to demonize these people. I really doubt that majority of them are racists, they just noticed the problem but still can't understand that others suffer from it in most games. And yes, this definitely is a social experiment but the results were interesting and it's not like they have to play the game.
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I am not denying the validity of the "experiment" or the point the developers are making. I'm saying that it's possible to completely get the developers' point and agree with it but still think that it detracts from the gaming experience too much. I can say that it would annoy me if I played the game: I like to try out different character designs with different genders and ethnicities in different playthroughs or online characters and taking this away from me would definitely detract from my gaming experience. Having a variable in character customization that is random instead of adjustable or a non-variable property is actively taking away a part of the experience.
I think the same point could be made with a lot less complaints and detracting less from the experience by having the ethnicity of the PC non-variable but also non-white. Perhaps allow some adjustment for the tone if you want. I think there would be a psychological difference at least for me no matter how silly the difference might seem. I wouldn't have the reaction of something being taken away from me which I probably would have if I played Rust. (Edit: Actually, I think the psychological difference between a random ethnicity and having only one ethnicity is precisely the feeling of being "forced" into something. Even with my tendency to play characters of different ethnicities being forced into picking a certain choice out of several possible ones would seriously annoy me. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind that much not being given different options at all.)
Remember Me and Season 1 of Telltale's Walking Dead are different beasts altogether because you are given a fully fleshed out character instead of creating your own. Yeah, Remember Me had difficulties with the publisher because of the protagonist's gender but I don't think the gamers themselves complained. I'm sure some racists disliked Walking Dead but I haven't paid attention enough to hear any complaints. These games make anyone paying attention think about the industry conventions critically and give them a push into a more inclusive direction.
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http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/raceavatar.htm
Interesting...
Anyway, I think this is an important issue and this "experiment" did reveal a lot about people. And yes, not being able to make a character that shares your ethnicity is an issue in a game WHICH IS WHY IT IS STRANGE THAT USUALLY WHEN THIS MATTER IS BROUGHT UP, PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIORS AND THE PC BRIGADE TRYING TO RUIN EVERYTHING!
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Please, no need for "shouting". It seems you are misunderstanding my point. I understand this issue, agree it is a problem and appreciate the developers doing their best to make people aware of it.
What I'm trying to say that designwise this might not be the best approach. I tried to say that I think a better way would be to make the PC's ethnicity non-random but also non-white. I do understand the social issue! With the random variable they are breaking a design principle that people are used to: if there's a variable property in the PC's appearance people expect being able to directly influence it. Making the ethnicity random instead of freely adjustable or non-variable causes people to react to the unusual design choice which is separate from the ethnicity issue. Conflating these two makes the discussion more confusing and detracts from the point the developers try to make.
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I'm not "shouting" at you. Or anyone here. I am just still rather annoyed at all those morons who did not understand this issue when it bit them in the face.
I agree that making everyone black might have been a better option in retrospect, but this as given some juicy data as well.
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As someone that's put a few dozen hours into Rust... I don't give a damn.
My roomie's dropped probably 200 hours into the game, if not more, and he gives even LESS of a shit than I do!
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Considering that no one complained from being "forced" to play a black guy in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, at least not that I know of, I think SCarpelan's point that it's less being made to play a non-white person and more that you are having a variable choice taken away from you and made random is a very relevant point. If this is an experiment, I don't think I would trust it on its premises alone.
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*YEESH* This reminds me of those guys years ago who got weirded-out when they discovered that "SAMUS IS A GIIIIRRRLLL"!
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Considering that no one complained from being "forced" to play a black guy in Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, at least not that I know of, I think SCarpelan's point that it's less being made to play a non-white person and more that you are having a variable choice taken away from you and made random is a very relevant point. If this is an experiment, I don't think I would trust it on its premises alone.
I was going to mention GTA:SA. I bought that game and when I found the character was black, not a single fuck was given that day.
As for this game, there is something I take issue with but bear in mind that I say this as someone who has never heard of this game before.
Games today are a far cry from the games I played growing up. I cut my gaming teeth on an NES playing Mario. It was a simple game with a simple story; all was well in the kingdom until the princess was kidnapped so now it is up to the italian plumber to save her because her guards are too busy masturbating. A fun game you got to play over and over because there was no fucking way to save your progress so we had to start over every time mom wanted to watch In the Heat of the Night...or maybe that was just my mom. But these days games are far more advanced and almost every modern game has an element of character customization unless the game is intensly story driven and even then there is often still some ability to customize your avatar (ME3, for example). There is no longer any excuse to not have basic character customization in a modern game.
Secondly, when I play a game, I want to play a fucking game. I want to emmerse myself in new stories, new lands and do things and go places I can't do/go in real life. I don't want to have politics rammed in my fucking face when I want to escape from reality and I don't want a game to take away a basic aspect of modern gaming just to make a political statement. Going back to GTA:SA, I didn't care that my character was black because that was part of the core story; he's a thug fresh out of jail and has been forced back into the gang life. It'd be damn odd if we could make him any race we wanted because gangs are often very racially segregated (at least in fictional media). This sounds like they are making you play as a certain race just because of politics and for me that just doesn't fly.
Of course I have zero knowledge of this game outside of this thread so I am willing to admit I could be way off base. If that is the case, ignore my above statement and chalk it up to Damen shooting his mouth off.
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Going back to GTA:SA, I didn't care that my character was black because that was part of the core story; he's a thug fresh out of jail and has been forced back into the gang life. It'd be damn odd if we could make him any race we wanted because gangs are often very racially segregated (at least in fictional media).
This is actually the reason why I took Walking Dead as an example of a game with a black main character and not GTA:SA. The black thug character is easy to interpret as a racist stereotype. The main character is not really presented as a brute, he is instead pressured back into the lifestyle by corrupt cops but a racist would probably ignore that and find the game more acceptable.
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I gotta ask. What the hell is going on in the gaming subset of society? Seems like every month the gamer community had their collective panties in a bunch over something. Is gaming supposed to be a sort of utopia of humanity? Because honestly, the act of sitting down for that long and playing computer games looks to me to be just as escapist as my little green feel good herbs. I'm not a gamer (obviously) so that is a serious question/statement/reaction.
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huh? they are upset? wow how pathetic..
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I gotta ask. What the hell is going on in the gaming subset of society? Seems like every month the gamer community had their collective panties in a bunch over something. Is gaming supposed to be a sort of utopia of humanity? Because honestly, the act of sitting down for that long and playing computer games looks to me to be just as escapist as my little green feel good herbs. I'm not a gamer (obviously) so that is a serious question/statement/reaction.
We're having a subset of men, cause it's always men, who are just coming into consumer power who have had all their wants and needs given to them by the industry. To see that industry slowly realizing that they can make more money by going after a subset of consumers who they haven't before, namely women. And that infuriates these guys because now they can't look to video games as a reason why they can't get laid. Because if its not their hobbies that are turning women off, then it must be them and that realization just infuriates them.
Ironbite-well that and women having their own sexual agency.
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I gotta ask. What the hell is going on in the gaming subset of society? Seems like every month the gamer community had their collective panties in a bunch over something. Is gaming supposed to be a sort of utopia of humanity? Because honestly, the act of sitting down for that long and playing computer games looks to me to be just as escapist as my little green feel good herbs. I'm not a gamer (obviously) so that is a serious question/statement/reaction.
It basically comes down to dudebros and tumblrinas having a pissing match.
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I gotta ask. What the hell is going on in the gaming subset of society? Seems like every month the gamer community had their collective panties in a bunch over something. Is gaming supposed to be a sort of utopia of humanity? Because honestly, the act of sitting down for that long and playing computer games looks to me to be just as escapist as my little green feel good herbs. I'm not a gamer (obviously) so that is a serious question/statement/reaction.
It basically comes down to dudebros and tumblrinas having a pissing match.
Oh, it's nowhere near that simple.
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We also have things like this: http://mythcreants.com/blog/five-destructive-myths-perpetuated-by-roleplaying-games/ suddenly about roleplaying games. The thing is that I don't mind if Grognard and his buddies want to play "Rape-barbarians of Murderland the RPG" in their homes, it is only an issue if they have invited a player who doesn't want to play that kind of game and try to force it on them. Likewise I don't mind if some other group plays "TUMBLR equality land with puppies and rainbows the RPG."
I think my issue is that when I hear complaints like these there are claims that even villains should not do things that are "triggering" or have any discrimination in the setting which in my mind is awfully restricting. Besides, dystopia is more fun to explore than utopia. Particularly since the characters can attack the problems in the dystopia and fight the system while in an utopia either there would be no badguys or those would be extremely rare at least. (though a detective story in a "perfect" utopia is often exciting.)
But that is slightly off topic. What is more relevant is that this isn't just "dudebros vs sjws" we also have others who simply hate all "politics and agendas" being "forced" to them in media and other people who may not be part of any movement who simply complain about others liking things that they don't like.
And the thing about "pushing agendas" is really annoying since to those people having a single gay person in a media means "forcing the gay agenda" and the same goes for other minorities and issues as well.
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Me, I dislike tokenism. If you want to make a gay character, fine, but make sure they're a gay character rather than a gay character.
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Ok. I think I get it. Gamer culture is still pretty foreign to me.
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Now, that's just insulting. (http://www.pcgamesn.com/rust/rust-s-penis-sizes-are-based-on-your-steamid)