FSTDT Forums
Community => Politics and Government => Topic started by: Nightangel8212 on March 29, 2012, 09:15:14 pm
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http://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/penny-disappear-coinage-system-minting-200604652.html
As it costs 1.6 cents to mint a 1 cent coin, the government has decided it's long overdue for the coins to become a thing of the past. I recommend keeping any pennies that were minted before 1996, however, as they are made out of real copper and their actual worth is approximately 3 cents a piece.
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How long before they get rid of nickels and dimes? I mean, those are almost worthless now, too.
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Well, if it costs less than their face value to mint them, then I think those'll be sticking around for a while. They also made the new plastic $50 bills and they will be entering circulation very soon.
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Seems it's time to take in all the rolls in my penny jar and exchange them at the bank.
Bye bye, pennies.
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What about needing to give change like 0.97? They've been saying things about maybe getting rid of pennies down here in the US for years, but I don't think they've figured out how you would do so. This also raises the question, why not use a cheaper metal? Are there no practical, cheaper options? What about plastic pennies? Would they be to easy to counterfeit? Though why you would counterfeit f-ing pennies is anyone's guess.
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What about needing to give change like 0.97?
Round it up. If it cost 97¢ before, it now costs $1.
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What about needing to give change like 0.97?
Round down to .95 or up to 1.00 would be my guess.
They've been saying things about maybe getting rid of pennies down here in the US for years, but I don't think they've figured out how you would do so. This also raises the question, why not use a cheaper metal? Are there no practical, cheaper options? What about plastic pennies? Would they be to easy to counterfeit? Though why you would counterfeit f-ing pennies is anyone's guess.
Plastic isn't nearly durable enough to make a coin out of.
I don't know about Canada, but in the US the most counterfeited monetary unit is the $20 bill. Its large enough to actually be worth something, but small enough to avoid overt suspicion.
Aren't coins harder to counterfeit, anyway?
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What about needing to give change like 0.97?
Round down to .95 or up to 1.00 would be my guess.
They've been saying things about maybe getting rid of pennies down here in the US for years, but I don't think they've figured out how you would do so. This also raises the question, why not use a cheaper metal? Are there no practical, cheaper options? What about plastic pennies? Would they be to easy to counterfeit? Though why you would counterfeit f-ing pennies is anyone's guess.
Plastic isn't nearly durable enough to make a coin out of.
I don't know about Canada, but in the US the most counterfeited monetary unit is the $20 bill. Its large enough to actually be worth something, but small enough to avoid overt suspicion.
Aren't coins harder to counterfeit, anyway?
Not necessarily. They don't have any security features, so that's not a problem. Die stamping machines of a suitable size wouldn't be hard to find or make. Such machines are used to make all manner of coin like objects such as medals, medallions, non-monetary coins, etc. Being in a CNC machining class I can say the dies themselves wouldn't be hard to make.
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I'm pretty much for this in the US too. Pennies are mostly useless and rounding to the nearest nickel would make things easier to add in the head.
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I'm also in support of ditching the penny (because fuck you CoinStar, that's why!)
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But we need pennies! D= What will we fill our socks with for a quick weapon otherwise??
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But we need pennies! D= What will we fill our socks with for a quick weapon otherwise??
Someone's never had a collection of half-dollars coins... those fuckers are brutal.
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But we need pennies! D= What will we fill our socks with for a quick weapon otherwise??
Someone's never had a collection of half-dollars coins... those fuckers are brutal.
Actually, there's a guy up the street from here. In lieu of candy, he gives trick-or-treaters a half-dollar and a cup of cider.
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I'm surprised nobody has pointed out the more obvious problem with eliminating pennies in the U.S.
Taxes.
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We have sales tax in Canada too :P
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You know, the argument of it costing more to make doesn't really make sense. Are they going to stop making every other form of currency because it costs less than it's worth to make? I don't know what denominations they use in Canada, but one would think the production costs of $1 bills alone would more than offset the cost of all the penny production, let alone every single other denomination of currency.
There may be legitimate reasons for stopping penny production, but cost hardly seems like one of them.
There's also the issue of where all that rounded money goes. A few cents here and there doesn't sound like a whole lot, but you're talking about about untold billions of transactions on a national scale. For that matter, would people paying by card face the same rounding? If not, it's a tax on those who use cash over other forms of payment.
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Good! It's about time! I hate having a heavy purse.
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I don't know what denominations they use in Canada
Mostly the same as the US (nickles, dimes, quarters, etc.), except we have $1 and $2 coins (referred to as loonies and toonies, respectively). Everything $5 and up is in bill form.
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As I recall, AAFES (which doesn't use pennies overseas) found that it evened out for the consumer when prices were rounded to the nearest nickel. On a given purchase, they might get a little more or a little less, but on average, it ended up the same.
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We have sales tax in Canada too :P
Yeah, but unless the states work something out where it's by the 5% and shit for every state, then you've got issues. Even then, that's too fucking rigid in my eyes. Especially since for that to even work, you'd have to do shit like dollar rounding. How would you handle stuff that's paid for by the pound, anyway? I mean, other shit would be bad, but stuff that's by the pound and therefore has a more floaty price? No. Not gonna work.
Or is everything just rounded to the nearest five cent in an aggregate cost? I guess that may work.
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Keep in mind, everything is already rounded. It's just rounded to the penny instead of the nickel.
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There's also the issue of where all that rounded money goes.
Same place the fractions of pennies go: Richard Pryor’s bank account (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_III).
Seriously, though. The money doesn’t go anywhere. Whatever you are buying just costs up to 4 cents more or less than it did before. That’s all.
Keep in mind, everything is already rounded. It's just rounded to the penny instead of the nickel.
Indeed.
Ever notice how gas prices are $x.xx9? If you buy a gallon of gas, how do you pay that extra 9/10 cent? You don’t. The price just gets rounded up.
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You know, the argument of it costing more to make doesn't really make sense. Are they going to stop making every other form of currency because it costs less than it's worth to make? I don't know what denominations they use in Canada, but one would think the production costs of $1 bills alone would more than offset the cost of all the penny production, let alone every single other denomination of currency.
I think the cost of minting pennies wasn't the main argument, it was just to demonstrate that inflation has rendered them pretty much worthless and not worth minting.
There's also the issue of where all that rounded money goes. A few cents here and there doesn't sound like a whole lot, but you're talking about about untold billions of transactions on a national scale. For that matter, would people paying by card face the same rounding? If not, it's a tax on those who use cash over other forms of payment.
I would wager that cash purchases will be rounded to the nearest increment of five cents, while electronic payment of any variety will not be rounded. It's what happens in Australia, where any denomination less than five cents have been out of circulation since the 80's.
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I read in the news yesterday that a U.S. penny now costs 2.4 cents to make. The argument for killing the penny comes up periodically -- I wonder how long before we follow suit?
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What about needing to give change like 0.97? They've been saying things about maybe getting rid of pennies down here in the US for years, but I don't think they've figured out how you would do so. This also raises the question, why not use a cheaper metal? Are there no practical, cheaper options? What about plastic pennies? Would they be to easy to counterfeit? Though why you would counterfeit f-ing pennies is anyone's guess.
Everything will be rounded to the nearest nickel in Canada now. For every purchase on which you lose 1-2 cents, there's one on which you gain 1-2 cents, so it all works out.
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We have sales tax in Canada too :P
Yeah, but unless the states work something out where it's by the 5% and shit for every state, then you've got issues. Even then, that's too fucking rigid in my eyes. Especially since for that to even work, you'd have to do shit like dollar rounding. How would you handle stuff that's paid for by the pound, anyway? I mean, other shit would be bad, but stuff that's by the pound and therefore has a more floaty price? No. Not gonna work.
Or is everything just rounded to the nearest five cent in an aggregate cost? I guess that may work.
Sales tax differs by province too. Some have PST (Provincial Sales Tax), some don't. All have the 5% GST, though.
I'm mostly just teasing you, though. ;)
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I almost misread the title as 'Canadians will say Goodbye to Penises'...thought for a second that Santorum was trying to meddle in Canadians' sex lives too. ::)
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But we need pennies! D= What will we fill our socks with for a quick weapon otherwise??
Oranges or Bar hand soap. They hurt like hell and leave no bruising :)
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What about needing to give change like 0.97?
Round down to .95 or up to 1.00 would be my guess.
They've been saying things about maybe getting rid of pennies down here in the US for years, but I don't think they've figured out how you would do so. This also raises the question, why not use a cheaper metal? Are there no practical, cheaper options? What about plastic pennies? Would they be to easy to counterfeit? Though why you would counterfeit f-ing pennies is anyone's guess.
Plastic isn't nearly durable enough to make a coin out of.
I don't know about Canada, but in the US the most counterfeited monetary unit is the $20 bill. Its large enough to actually be worth something, but small enough to avoid overt suspicion.
Aren't coins harder to counterfeit, anyway?
Malaysia got rid of the 1 cent coin years ago. They pretty much round everything to the nearest 5 cents.
Also they could've gotten a tip from China: their 5 fen (.0066 USD) coin is made out of aluminum, and the weirdest coin I've ever seen.
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Just go digital like Sweden wants to.
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Also they could've gotten a tip from China: their 5 fen (.0066 USD) coin is made out of aluminum, and the weirdest coin I've ever seen.
That sounds like an extremely malleable coin O_o
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Insanity Wolf has an idea to help the Canadians
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/17523863.jpg)
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Also they could've gotten a tip from China: their 5 fen (.0066 USD) coin is made out of aluminum, and the weirdest coin I've ever seen.
That sounds like an extremely malleable coin O_o
Aluminum is actually a fairly sturdy metal. There's a reason they make aircraft and naval vessels out of it. Most people are only really exposed to aluminum (knowingly) in the form of foil or soda cans, which are incredibly thin.
If you've ever been to an arcade that uses tokens instead of official currency, the tokens were likely made of aluminum. Those things are hard to damage.
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I almost misread the title as 'Canadians will say Goodbye to Penises'...thought for a second that Santorum was trying to meddle in Canadians' sex lives too. ::)
Scrolled through the thread to see if anyone else had read it that way, too. Now I don't feel quite so Freudian.
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I almost misread the title as 'Canadians will say Goodbye to Penises'...thought for a second that Santorum was trying to meddle in Canadians' sex lives too. ::)
I did read it as that, and needless to say I had quite a few questions before reading the OP.
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Also they could've gotten a tip from China: their 5 fen (.0066 USD) coin is made out of aluminum, and the weirdest coin I've ever seen.
That sounds like an extremely malleable coin O_o
I can't say for the 5 分 coins since I've only ever seen the 1 or 2 versions, but they're not malleable, just very thin and ugly. That said they are worthless even in China, the only time I ever get them is due to a bizarre system for paying my rent that means I get 2 fen change every month. In day to day transactions you never use them, all prices are rounded to the nearest mao (10 fen).
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Finland doesn't make 1 and 2 cent coins. Shops will accept them (since other EU countries use them) but won't give them in change. No one really sees this as a problem since 1cent is a) really not that much so rounding up/down doesn't bother people. b) those coins are also physically quite small so they are annoying to handle. c) if you really are bothered about paying 1cent too much for a product you can pay with a card and pay the excact sum.
And now that I've made a reasonably on topic comment I would like to add that I originally read the title as: Canadians will say Goodbye to Penis...
-tirsk-
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I almost misread the title as 'Canadians will say Goodbye to Penises'...thought for a second that Santorum was trying to meddle in Canadians' sex lives too. ::)
You're not the only one.
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Just go digital like Sweden wants to.
I could see that being an issue for the very poor, unless the government provided a free debit card and bank account for everyone.
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Just go digital like Sweden wants to.
I could see that being an issue for the very poor, unless the government provided a free debit card and bank account for everyone.
We couldn't do that here in the US. They'd just say it proves Obama's the anti-christ, because credit cards are the mark of the beast. I have to wonder if Sweden has to deal with Rapture fundies throwing a shit fit over it.
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Also they could've gotten a tip from China: their 5 fen (.0066 USD) coin is made out of aluminum, and the weirdest coin I've ever seen.
That sounds like an extremely malleable coin O_o
Aluminum is actually a fairly sturdy metal. There's a reason they make aircraft and naval vessels out of it. Most people are only really exposed to aluminum (knowingly) in the form of foil or soda cans, which are incredibly thin.
If you've ever been to an arcade that uses tokens instead of official currency, the tokens were likely made of aluminum. Those things are hard to damage.
I suppose it would depend on what grade of aluminum was used. I say this because I've seen exhaust gaskets made of aluminum because it was maliable enough to conform to both block and manifold to seal the gaps
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Just go digital like Sweden wants to.
I could see that being an issue for the very poor, unless the government provided a free debit card and bank account for everyone.
We couldn't do that here in the US. They'd just say it proves Obama's the anti-christ, because credit cards are the mark of the beast. I have to wonder if Sweden has to deal with Rapture fundies throwing a shit fit over it.
Also, not everyone likes to use debit/credit cards when they shop. I use cash when I go out shopping, it's not that I don't have a bank account, I do, heck I even have direct deposit. I just prefer to use cash rather than a card. I only use a card when I buy stuff online and even with that I have a limit. Call me old-fashion if you will...
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Also, not everyone likes to use debit/credit cards when they shop. I use cash when I go out shopping, it's not that I don't have a bank account, I do, heck I even have direct deposit. I just prefer to use cash rather than a card. I only use a card when I buy stuff online and even withthat I have a limit. Call me old-fashion if you will...
I'm the same, but that's because early on when I had a debit card, I put $600 in the bank and somehow the card read "insufficient funds" when I tried to use it. This was only made more embarrassing by the number of friends I was hanging with when this happened.
Ever since that day, cash all the way. ;D ;D
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The reason I use cash is because it's habit that I got from my mom. She's always used cash, except for major purchases.
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We got rid of our 1cent (and 2cent) coins 20 years ago...
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a0/Australian_1c_Coin.png)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/18/Australian_2c_Coin.png)
Some even want to get rid of our 5cent coins as well, as it (sometimes) costs more to make them, it even went as high as 6.5cents to make one.
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I prefer cash myself.
First, the physical element gives an easy and effective reminder when you are spending too much. It is far too easy to overspend when all you have is an electronic number.
Second, it reduces my trail. Every electronic transaction leaves a record. I have been put on at least one mailing list I didn’t need because I happened to use my debit card when I was buying a gift for someone else.
Third, in many ways, it is so much easier to steal money from someone’s digital account than it is to get into their wallet and take the piddling amount of cash they have in it.
I generally try to keep my debit card for online and large purchases only. Very rarely, I dip into it if I am low on cash-on-hand with no nearby ATM and my purchase is a necessity.
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Funny thing but in Finland Debit cards are used so much that some shops have considered about no longer accepting cash payments since it would not have much disadvantages. In fact it would make it safer for the staff since there wouldn't be large amounts of cash in the registers, so that would reduce robberies.
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Some even want to get rid of our 5cent coins as well, as it (sometimes) costs more to make them, it even went as high as 6.5cents to make one.
I'd love to get rid of them and possibly the 10c coin as well. The fucking things do nothing but weigh my wallet down and make it difficult to dig out coins that are actually useful.
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In both Canada and the US, it was a sorry day when beaver pelts were discontinued.
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In both Canada and the US, it was a sorry day when beaver pelts were discontinued.
Aye. It was also a sad day when we couldn't get stuff for shiny beads.
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I costs a bit more to make than we say it is worth... which is a problem how exactly? It's not like we use it once and it is rendered useless. There are pennies still in circulation almost as old as Old Viking. As long as the base metal isn't worth melting down to re-sell at a profit, we're good.
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I'm surprised nobody has pointed out the more obvious problem with eliminating pennies in the U.S.
Taxes.
Then stores should just include the taxes in the listed price. It makes for much less confusion, especially in states that are very specific about what has sales tax and what doesn't.
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I'm surprised nobody has pointed out the more obvious problem with eliminating pennies in the U.S.
Taxes.
Then stores should just include the taxes in the listed price. It makes for much less confusion, especially in states that are very specific about what has sales tax and what doesn't.
I think I mentioned this but Malaysia charges 6% sales tax. The final bill is still rounded to the nearest 5 cents (credit card payments are not rounded). There seems to be no problem with the retailers, except there will be a one-time cost of recalibrating all machines.
The alternative is to make the item price inclusive of the sales charge. Will make the item seem a little more expensive, but eliminates the whole rounding error bullshit.