I can respect someone who is in the political center because their ideology and values position them where the center happens currently to be. I have zero respect for someone who actively measures where center is and makes sure their current position is always within that range. Vanto would literally try to defend the Nazi death camps from leftist criticism in the name of balance if he was in WWII Germany.
No, I'm not. I'm just pointing out facts that contradict the IMO alarmist "fascist stormtroopers brutalizing peaceful protesters and kidnapping people" narrative that's being pushed and taking a position on these events based on all the available evidence. You should've seen me say that I'd be against this if we knew the feds were taking these people to Gitmo and black sites, and if it comes out that they are, I'll side with you. I don't make wild assumptions about your positions based on zero evidence as an excuse to demonize you, so I'd appreciate you not doing that to me.
Oh, so now we've gone from "they're not identified" to "their identification is too hard to read". Maybe that's a valid criticism, but if this is a problem, it's one that predates these riots by some time.
And are you talking about that time a cop in Portland threw someone's phone at a window? I thought that guy was a local, not a fed.
As I noted: there is no effective difference between "no identification" and "can't see the identification".
As for this being an ongoing problem, yes, it is. And if you're trying to defend it on those grounds, I can only refer you to Shirley Jackson's "The Lottery" for why the appeal to tradition is stupid.
On the last point, whether it was a local or a fed, it doesn't much matter; the tactic is used to discourage people from attempting to hold law enforcement accountable for their brutality.
1. Guess that's fair. Have any suggestions on making the ID more visible? I can think of some. Maybe making it larger, putting it on their chests, use of different colors? What do you think of those ideas?
2. I'm not trying to defend bad identification. You're not wrong, if it's as hard to read as you say it is, it should be changed. My point was that if it's a longstanding issue, you could say the people in charge should change it, but it wasn't their idea.
3. You're right; in that regard, it don't matter. But it does matter when it comes to assigning blame. If it wasn't a fed doing that, why should we blame the feds? We don't blame the FBI for enhanced interrogation, we blame the agencies that actually do that shit.
So how many of the deaths were from 'Rioters'. You only identified deaths caused during the riots. The information there isn't enough to say that the killers were participating in the riots or were in response to the riots. The only ones that definitively fit your scope are the ones caused by the CHAZ security teams.
Also The Week (that famous leftwing mouthpiece) appear to think it's fascism : https://theweek.com/articles/927661/why-trumps-invasion-portland-textbook-fascism
I'd say if you kill people during a riot, you're at the very least taking advantage of the unrest.
And congratulations. You found an opinion. One based on incorrect information. The rioters in Portland have been caught on video doing far worse than just "vandalism".
They tried to burn down a federal courthouse, for example. So you'll have to forgive me if I'm not inclined to buy into the rest of what he says, especially his "Drumpf is going to declare himself Der Orangefuhrer if this works!" hysteria. I'm sure there are totally legit criticisms to be made of what the feds are doing, but if they really were "fascist stormtroopers", we wouldn't be allowed to make them.
Trump - or at least his administration - has graduated from proto-fascism to actual fascism. He is not just laying the ideological ground for a future fascist regime but is putting the ideology in action. Almost all of Umberto Eco's definitions hit the mark.
1. The first feature of Ur-Fascism is the cult of tradition. [MAGA! Bring back the 50's!]
2. Traditionalism implies the rejection of modernism. ... The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.
3. Irrationalism also depends on the cult of action for action's sake. Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.
4. No syncretistic faith can withstand analytical criticism. The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge. For Ur-Fascism, disagreement is treason.
5. ...Ur-Fascism grows up and seeks for consensus by exploiting and exacerbating the natural fear of difference. The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders.
6. Ur-Fascism derives from individual or social frustration. That is why one of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.
7. To people who feel deprived of a clear social identity, Ur-Fascism says that their only privilege is the most common one, to be born in the same country. This is the origin of nationalism. Besides, the only ones who can provide an identity to the nation are its enemies. Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one.
8. The followers must feel humiliated by the ostentatious wealth and force of their enemies. [The liberal elite / the jews]
9. For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle. Thus pacifism is trafficking with the enemy.
10. Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology, insofar as it is fundamentally aristocratic, and aristocratic and militaristic elitism cruelly implies contempt for the weak. Ur-Fascism can only advocate a popular elitism. Every citizen belongs to the best people of the world, the members of the party are the best among the citizens, every citizen can (or ought to) become a member of the party.
11. In such a perspective everybody is educated to become a hero. In every mythology the hero is an exceptional being, but in Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death. [Worship of military and the veterans.]
12. Since both permanent war and heroism are difficult games to play, the Ur-Fascist transfers his will to power to sexual matters. This is the origin of machismo (which implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality). Since even sex is a difficult game to play, the Ur-Fascist hero tends to play with weapons – doing so becomes an ersatz phallic exercise.
13. Ur-Fascism is based upon a selective populism, a qualitative populism, one might say. ... Because of its qualitative populism Ur-Fascism must be against "rotten" parliamentary governments. ... Wherever a politician casts doubt on the legitimacy of a parliament because it no longer represents the Voice of the People, we can smell Ur-Fascism.
14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. Newspeak was invented by Orwell, in 1984, as the official language of Ingsoc, English Socialism. But elements of Ur-Fascism are common to different forms of dictatorship. All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.
It's noteworthy that there are aspects that are part of the American political discourse even before Trump. Specially the worship of the military and the heroism cult around it is scary looking at it from the outside. There are aspects that are promoted as parts of every national identity (again, something to think about) but how extreme forms are normalised in American context is worrying when there is the might of a superpower in play.
If the Trump administration really is fascist, it's the most permissive fascist government I've ever heard of. To put it bluntly, if the Trump administration really was fascist, we'd be seeing these people locked away without charge or trial, being sent to kangaroo courts, or just straight-up summarily executed. In fascism, you do not go against the state or the ruling party without suffering severe consequences. When Giacomo Matteotti accused the Fascist Party of committing electoral fraud, he was kidnapped and murdered by Mussolini's goons 11 days later.
How dare you suggest that Vanto's opinion isn't as worthy as the writings of some dead Italian. You're probably some sort of pansy who doesn't support teargassing and beating vandals or the people nearby vandals.
You know, you can stop attacking strawmen and talk to the real me at any time.
You know, for someone who is trying to be "balanced", it's awful funny that Vanto's arguments are the same ones being made by the far-right wackos who are cheerleading for Trump's fascist takeover.
But since you are, Vanto, I'm going to throw a simple question at you that I wanted to ask them, but know I won't get a straight answer for; if all the protesters are rioters, and all the rioters are trying to burn things down, how is there still a City of Portland for the Feds to be "defending"?
Where did I say that all the protesters are rioters? And if this were a "fascist takeover", why hasn't Portland's government been replaced with Trump's sycophants? It's literally in the constitution that the federal government is obligated to step in when the state and local authorities fail to enforce federal law or protect federal property.
See, that's what gets me every fuckin' time someone brings up "duh riotars:" they make it sound like there's a band of barbarians running rampant, raping and pillaging everything in sight.
YES, THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE, WHO ARE CUNTS, THAT ARE USING THE CIVIL UNREST AS AN EXCUSE TO BE CUNTS. However, that does not excuse the pigs and other nice, jackbooted thugs our society enables from using chemical weapons on innocent civilians, assuming they're all potential rioters before any crimes are actually committed. Well, other than being out during doughnut time "duh cur-foo," "disrespecting" a pig, or happening to be black while in the presence of a pig.
Fuck, lemme put it another way: if its okay for the pigs to assume we're all potential looting rioters and to detain us without a crime having been committed, then why not preemptively arrest people that might murder someone? Why not arrest random poor people on the assumption that they might one day become drug dealers? Why not just go full on Minority Report? BECAUSE THAT'S NOT HOW JUSTICE FUCKING WORKS.
OK homie, I got no problem with people criticizing the conduct of the feds or the state or local cops. I just want people to have a fucking sense of proportion. This is not fascism.
Side note, I was gonna call you a hypocrite for distinguishing between protesters and rioters while implying all cops are "pigs", but maybe you did that deliberately to make a point. I will say, however, that I have a brother who's a police officer, so I'd appreciate it if you showed a little more nuance.
In fact, considering he's using his time here to now basically play "but we must be moderate!" and thus cover for Trump going literally full on fascist, I think this constitutes enough of a transgression to ban Vanto right the fuck on outta here.
Are you willing to be accused of supporting the riots and all the terrible things that go with them?
Let me make myself perfectly clear. There are valid criticisms to be made. Maybe Trump's acting beyond his authority. Maybe his motives are self-serving. Maybe these measures are doing more harm than good. But this ain't fascism. Fascism is not arresting criminals in a way you don't like. Fascism is a totalitarian system where everything is obligated to be not only completely obedient to the ruling party and the central government, but also to dedicate its entire being to supporting them. Under fascism, you're either part of the state, or you don't deserve to exist. The fact that countless politicians and talking heads are able to criticize this move without fear of being up in front of a firing squad really doesn't gel with the idea that Trump is going "full fascist". Remember when everybody made fun of the wingnuts who said Obama was a far-left radical/Islamic extremist/black supremacist who was going to make himself president for life? You're acting like the leftist equivalents. So many people have pointed out that if Alex Jones was right about Obama, he'd be stone dead right now. Were Trump a fascist, we'd have seen his political opponents die in droves or just disappear by now. Fascists don't fuck around.