FSTDT Forums
Community => Society and History => Topic started by: Askold on April 12, 2013, 12:59:30 am
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http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/david/missouri-man-arrested-hospital-refusing-leav
http://fox4kc.com/2013/04/10/man-no-longer-allowed-to-visit-husband-at-kc-area-hospital/
He had the power of attourney over his partner and according to the law he had the right to be there. Unfortunately the hospital did not care and instead the security had him handcuffed and now he has a restraining order to deny him the chance to see his critically sick husband. The hospital believes this is not discrimination in any way...
Update:
http://fox4kc.com/2013/04/11/hospital-bad-behavior-sole-reason-man-had-to-leave/
They claim that the guy was "behaving badly" and that was the only reason to have him removed... Or the bad PR made them realise how badly they fucked up and are now doing damage control.
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Well....#Invalid YouTube Link#
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Call me crazy, but I'll wait until the hospital's story is either confirmed or denied before I pass judgement.
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Call me crazy, but I'll wait until the hospital's story is either confirmed or denied before I pass judgement.
I would indeed like more information before flying into a rage as many are inclined to do. There's so little confirmed information right now that we CAN'T react already. For all we know, there was a simple mistake made by unaware staff and the guy flew into a rage until he had to be handcuffed. At the same time, it could have been a legitimate case of discrimination and refusal to recognize the rights of a gay man.
But please, don't freak out and start ranting until we get more information in.
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I found this just before I left to take the bus to work so I posted it in a hurry while I was still angry.
Now that I think about it and read it more carefully it is possible that the hospital had a justifiable reason to have him removed. On the other hand if the argument really did get started when the brother tried to drive him away from the hospital room I will totally understand that he got a bit too angry about it.
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http://americablog.com/2013/04/interview-daughter-gay-man-handcuffed-husbands-hospital-bed.html (http://americablog.com/2013/04/interview-daughter-gay-man-handcuffed-husbands-hospital-bed.html)
Just found this. Haven't read it yet, but is supposed to be the arrested man's daughter's eye witness account of what happened in the hospital room, etc., plus some family history background about on-going problems and drama started by the patient's brother.
Edited after reading the linked article.
I would put most of the blame squarely on the nurse, who knew better, yet used her "word" as an attending nurse to cause and continue a bunch of bigoted bullshit. The security guards and cops mostly acted stupidly and like thugs (<snark GASP!>), but they were at least somewhat misled by assumptions based on the nurse's demand for security/police to take over....That was a total bullshit, cunt move, and I hope she has her nursing license suspended, at least.
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Update on the case (http://fox4kc.com/2013/04/11/hospital-bad-behavior-sole-reason-man-had-to-leave/).
HCA said Thursday it does not have a restraining order against Gorley and that he is welcome back at anytime. However, a police report shows he has been cited for trespassing and disorderly conduct.
It also says there was a nasty fight between the guy, and his partner's brother. So one has to wonder what that was about.
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Update on the case (http://fox4kc.com/2013/04/11/hospital-bad-behavior-sole-reason-man-had-to-leave/).
HCA said Thursday it does not have a restraining order against Gorley and that he is welcome back at anytime. However, a police report shows he has been cited for trespassing and disorderly conduct.
It also says there was a nasty fight between the guy, and his partner's brother. So one has to wonder what that was about.
According to the articles and comments, the brother told the husband to "back off" when he arrived at the hospital, and possibly made other derogatory statements in regard to him being gay. The comments also say that after the husband was forced to leave, it took half an hour for the brother to leave after multiple requests from the patient that he leave. Also, while the husband was charged, the brother was not (some comments claimed that the brother also happens to be a cop). Apparently, security footage shows that both parties acted belligerently, but it's argued that the brother should've been made to leave first, given that the husband had power of attorney over the patient.
That's what I got from the articles and comments.
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So two guys got into a pissing match at the hospital while visiting the same person and got kicked out for it?
That's not news, really. That's pretty standard. The only difference is that one of them happened to be gay, so everyone immediately flipped out before getting the full story.
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No we get to flip our shit over this because it happens all the damn time. In fact....
Here's what the daughter said what happened (http://www.advocate.com/politics/2013/04/12/hospital-daughter-gay-man-arrested-missouri-dispute-what-really-happened)
"Allen made sure over the past 20 years to not involve his family in his medical care," wrote Brown. "None of them are on his HIPAA nor are any of them supposed to have any say over what happens to him medically. [Mansell and Gorley] have each been granted power of attorney over each other for medical decisions. This information is not only on file with Research Medical Center, they are well-known at the hospital and throughout the city as a proud gay couple. No one has ever had a problem until Tuesday 4/9/2013." (Emphases are Brown's.)
Brown alleges that Mansell's brother and sister arrived unexpectedly at Mansell's home on Tuesday, with paramedics in tow, and took Mansell to Research Medical Center against his will. Brown further notes that while Mansell had previously visited Research Medical Center for electroshock therapy treatments to combat his debilitating depression, the Kansas City hospital was not Mansell's regular medical provider.
When Gorley arrived at Research Medical Center, Brown says her father immediately raced to his husband's side, holding his hand and offering him reassurance. Brown says Mansell's brother offered similar assurances, but added that he would not allow Gorley to make medical decisions for his husband.
"That ignited the fire in my father that had been swelling up inside of him," writes Brown. "He said, 'No you won’t! This is my husband. I know what he wants and needs. You are never around. You need to leave.'"
That's when the nurse on staff asked Gorley to leave the room, says Brown. Indeed, a spokesperson for the hospital's parent company, Hospital Corporation of America, acknowledged that the nurse asked both men to leave.
"When the nurse went in to ask them to please quiet down and please stop this and they continued, and every time they stepped out it would get escalated, so she stepped back in and asked them to remove themselves for the sake of the patient at the moment," Rob Dyer of HCA told Fox 4 News Thursday. Dyer also told Fox 4 that Gorley did not present a copy of his power of attorney agreement during Tuesday's particular visit.
When Gorley refused to leave his husband's side, hospital staff called security, who eventually contacted Kansas City Police. When police ordered Gorley to leave the room, Gorley refused, and that's when police exerted excessive force to physically remove Gorley, who was clinging to the sidebar of his husband's gurney, says his daughter.
"The office[r] began karate chopping his wrist to get him to release the gurney," writes Brown. "Then they wrestled him to the ground forcefully enough to knock his glasses off of his face, his hearing aids out of his ears, and nearly break his wrist while they took him down. To handcuff him they pushed a knee into his back and wrenched his wrists around."
Yes we do get to flip our shit because this kind of stuff happens way to often in this god damn country and I'm sick of it.
Ironbite-this family sickens me with how they treated this man and should be sued into Oblivion where they have to serve Shiggy for all eternity.
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So two guys got into a pissing match at the hospital while visiting the same person and got kicked out for it?
That's not news, really. That's pretty standard. The only difference is that one of them happened to be gay, so everyone immediately flipped out before getting the full story.
No, people flipped out because only the gay man was kicked out and arrested. The gay man who had his partner's power of attorney, while the patient wanted his husband to stay and his brother to leave. Instead, the husband was arrested, and the brother stayed, against the wishes of the patient.
There's also kind of the fact that the only reason the man was in the hospital to begin was because his brother lied to authorities and insisted his brother was suicidal, and the authorities completely ignored the man, his husband, and their daughter's insistence that he was doing fine and had him packed off to the hospital.
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To the wrong hospital, no less. He was sent where he got his electro shock therapy, not his usual hospital.
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No we get to flip our shit over this because it happens all the damn time. In fact....
Here's what the daughter said what happened (http://www.advocate.com/politics/2013/04/12/hospital-daughter-gay-man-arrested-missouri-dispute-what-really-happened)
"Allen made sure over the past 20 years to not involve his family in his medical care," wrote Brown. "None of them are on his HIPAA nor are any of them supposed to have any say over what happens to him medically. [Mansell and Gorley] have each been granted power of attorney over each other for medical decisions. This information is not only on file with Research Medical Center, they are well-known at the hospital and throughout the city as a proud gay couple. No one has ever had a problem until Tuesday 4/9/2013." (Emphases are Brown's.)
Brown alleges that Mansell's brother and sister arrived unexpectedly at Mansell's home on Tuesday, with paramedics in tow, and took Mansell to Research Medical Center against his will. Brown further notes that while Mansell had previously visited Research Medical Center for electroshock therapy treatments to combat his debilitating depression, the Kansas City hospital was not Mansell's regular medical provider.
When Gorley arrived at Research Medical Center, Brown says her father immediately raced to his husband's side, holding his hand and offering him reassurance. Brown says Mansell's brother offered similar assurances, but added that he would not allow Gorley to make medical decisions for his husband.
"That ignited the fire in my father that had been swelling up inside of him," writes Brown. "He said, 'No you won’t! This is my husband. I know what he wants and needs. You are never around. You need to leave.'"
That's when the nurse on staff asked Gorley to leave the room, says Brown. Indeed, a spokesperson for the hospital's parent company, Hospital Corporation of America, acknowledged that the nurse asked both men to leave.
"When the nurse went in to ask them to please quiet down and please stop this and they continued, and every time they stepped out it would get escalated, so she stepped back in and asked them to remove themselves for the sake of the patient at the moment," Rob Dyer of HCA told Fox 4 News Thursday. Dyer also told Fox 4 that Gorley did not present a copy of his power of attorney agreement during Tuesday's particular visit.
When Gorley refused to leave his husband's side, hospital staff called security, who eventually contacted Kansas City Police. When police ordered Gorley to leave the room, Gorley refused, and that's when police exerted excessive force to physically remove Gorley, who was clinging to the sidebar of his husband's gurney, says his daughter.
"The office[r] began karate chopping his wrist to get him to release the gurney," writes Brown. "Then they wrestled him to the ground forcefully enough to knock his glasses off of his face, his hearing aids out of his ears, and nearly break his wrist while they took him down. To handcuff him they pushed a knee into his back and wrenched his wrists around."
Yes we do get to flip our shit because this kind of stuff happens way to often in this god damn country and I'm sick of it.
Ironbite-this family sickens me with how they treated this man and should be sued into Oblivion where they have to serve Shiggy for all eternity.
Okay seriously? They do nothing to the brother even though both were asked to leave and basically kick the partner's ass? *facepalm* What the hell?
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Like I said, LAWSUIT!
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So two guys got into a pissing match at the hospital while visiting the same person and got kicked out for it?
That's not news, really. That's pretty standard. The only difference is that one of them happened to be gay, so everyone immediately flipped out before getting the full story.
No, people flipped out because only the gay man was kicked out and arrested. The gay man who had his partner's power of attorney, while the patient wanted his husband to stay and his brother to leave. Instead, the husband was arrested, and the brother stayed, against the wishes of the patient.
There's also kind of the fact that the only reason the man was in the hospital to begin was because his brother lied to authorities and insisted his brother was suicidal, and the authorities completely ignored the man, his husband, and their daughter's insistence that he was doing fine and had him packed off to the hospital.
The problem is that there's no evidence yet of bigotry being the cause. Again, it COULD be a homophobic ruling by the staff. Or it COULD be a normal mixup involving who was doing what due to lack of communication in a tense situation.
I just ask that more information appear before we treat this as something special purely due to a gay man apparently getting it worse than the others. If it was a straight couple with the husband being given more flak, nobody would even have it on their radar. And you can bet that's happened quite a lot in hospital arguments like this. But sometimes I fear that people are so concerned with looking for bigotry to shout at that they don't let the full story get out, and they let their emotions color the facts.
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Did you even read what I posted?
Ironbite-seriously dude
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Did you even read what I posted?
Ironbite-seriously dude
Yes, and it's nothing special: the patient's spouse and brother got into a fight that escalated until security was forced to intervene. Gorley never presented his power of attorney documents, so as far as the hospital was concerned he had less legal right to be there than the brother. He refused to go with police and had to be physically removed following standard procedure for non-compliant suspects.
I'm not questioning whether the police did the right thing. I'm only questioning whether bigotry against homosexuals had anything to do with the hospital and police response, rather than a typical miscommunication that resulted in mistakes being made.
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Actually, as of January 2011, he had more right to be there than the brother. The Department of Health and Human Services has a set of guidelines for any hospital receiving government funds (including but not limited Medicare & Medicaid) that they can not discriminate visitation on the basis of sexual orientation nor gender identity. They should have, and were obligated to, treat Gorley as Allen's spouse and allow visitation to him over Allen's shitty family. I also sincerely doubt Gorley would've been kicked out if he were Allen's wife, all things being equal.
Second, if he was disruptive, so the fuck what?!? His husband is on his death bed and the family who abandoned his husband is fighting to make sure he can't be there for the one he loves most. That would get just about anybody whipped into a frenzy.
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Actually, as of January 2011, he had more right to be there than the brother. The Department of Health and Human Services has a set of guidelines for any hospital receiving government funds (including but not limited Medicare & Medicaid) that they can not discriminate visitation on the basis of sexual orientation nor gender identity. They should have, and were obligated to, treat Gorley as Allen's spouse and allow visitation to him over Allen's shitty family. I also sincerely doubt Gorley would've been kicked out if he were Allen's wife, all things being equal.
Again, he never displayed his paperwork that indicated that he had power of attorney. It's very probable that whoever elected to boot him out had no idea who he was in relation to the patient. Again, miscommunication and misunderstandings can cause a hell of a lot of problems. We can't just think "Oh, they were being mean and evil bigots" without proof.
Second, if he was disruptive, so the fuck what?!? His husband is on his death bed and the family who abandoned his husband is fighting to make sure he can't be there for the one he loves most. That would get just about anybody whipped into a frenzy.
That's all well and good, but it's not how hospitals work. If people are fighting loud enough OUTSIDE of the patient's room to disrupt the nearby patients, they'll get removed. All patients have a right to comfort and peace and the doctors and nurses have a right to a good working environment. No matter how emotional and heated things get, there are standards of respect that everyone has to follow. They were too emotional to settle anything peacefully, and thus would have very rightly been removed. The only problem I'm seeing is that only ONE person was immediately pulled out by police after refusing to leave rather than both of them.
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So, all gay couples now must carry papers of their civil unions (of which Gorley & Allen were in for five years) and their joint-powers of attorney at all times, because if they don't then a hospital can boot one out during their loved one's last moments and issue a restraining order preventing the loved one from coming back (both back in general and back with relevant paperwork). Likewise, the hospital can choose to not look up the documents when the couple had visited in the past. The hospital had the power of attorney documents on file from Allen's past visits to the psychiatric unit. I understand you're trying to be "level-headed" but you're just defending a shitty & homophobic status quo and making same sex couples jump through hoops just to enjoy the same protections that heterosexual couples enjoy (hoops which still may not be enough). A man and women don't need to carry their marriage license they're believed on the spot, but two dudes, nope that's crazy.
Second, the man had every right to make a scene when 1) he was being denied visitation which he had the legal protections and rights to do 2) I am sure the hospital is blowing it out of proportion. This is nothing but after the fact excuses by a hospital which broke federal laws and is trying to save their federal funding. Fact, The Hospital had power of attorney papers on file and refused to look at them. Fact, nothing in Missouri law prevents same-sex couples from making power-of-attorney agreements. Fact, Allen & Gorley were in a five year civil union. Fact, DHHS guidelines demand that such unions be recognized for visitation. Fact, the hospital ignored the civil union in favor of the family telling the Gorley to leave. Fact, in Missouri power of attorney rights can not be trumped by relatives (rights which again the hospital had on file). That is why Gorley got angry and he had every right to be in that situation. Anybody in that situation who isn't a sociopath or a robot would act the exact same. Gorley had his rights to be at the deathbed of the love of his life trampled and I'm sure his justified anger was blown out of proportion as an excuse to legitimize homophobic behavior. However, right now it is a he-said/she-said of the hospital, but fact of the matter is the hospital acted inappropriately. The facts presented clearly state that Gorley had the right to boot the family from visiting, not the other way around.
This is just another example that minorities need to be on their best fucking behavior when they go in public to get the same powers and privileges of their majority counterparts.
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So, all gay couples now must carry papers of their civil unions (of which Gorley & Allen were in for five years) and their joint-powers of attorney at all times, because if they don't then a hospital can boot one out during their loved one's last moments and issue a restraining order preventing the loved one from coming back (both back in general and back with relevant paperwork). Likewise, the hospital can choose to not look up the documents when the couple had visited in the past. The hospital had the power of attorney documents on file from Allen's past visits to the psychiatric unit. I understand you're trying to be "level-headed" but you're just defending a shitty & homophobic status quo and making same sex couples jump through hoops just to enjoy the same protections that heterosexual couples enjoy (hoops which still may not be enough). A man and women don't need to carry their marriage license they're believed on the spot, but two dudes, nope that's crazy.
Second, the man had every right to make a scene when 1) he was being denied visitation which he had the legal protections and rights to do 2) I am sure the hospital is blowing it out of proportion. This is nothing but after the fact excuses by a hospital which broke federal laws and is trying to save their federal funding. Fact, The Hospital had power of attorney papers on file and refused to look at them. Fact, nothing in Missouri law prevents same-sex couples from making power-of-attorney agreements. Fact, Allen & Gorley were in a five year civil union. Fact, DHHS guidelines demand that such unions be recognized for visitation. Fact, the hospital ignored the civil union in favor of the family telling the Gorley to leave. Fact, in Missouri power of attorney rights can not be trumped by relatives (rights which again the hospital had on file). That is why Gorley got angry and he had every right to be in that situation. Anybody in that situation who isn't a sociopath or a robot would act the exact same. Gorley had his rights to be at the deathbed of the love of his life trampled and I'm sure his justified anger was blown out of proportion as an excuse to legitimize homophobic behavior. However, right now it is a he-said/she-said of the hospital, but fact of the matter is the hospital acted inappropriately. The facts presented clearly state that Gorley had the right to boot the family from visiting, not the other way around.
This is just another example that minorities need to be on their best fucking behavior when they go in public to get the same powers and privileges of their majority counterparts.
(http://media.tumblr.com/f722aa9493a1532be5479525848e9bc1/tumblr_inline_mfd3t0Vl061qiv5yk.gif)
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[wall of awesome]
(http://img.pandawhale.com/post-9764-Grumpy-Cat-clapping-gif-P16l.gif)
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. . . He was on his deathbed? I thought someone said the brother forced him to go to the hospital because the brother lied to police about him being suicidal. Or were you talking about hypotheticals? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely confused.
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Eh, I misread that. One article (http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/04/11/the-case-for-marriage-equality-missouri-man-arrested-for-staying-with-sick-husband-in-hospital/) I read said "But no amount of money or legal redress can make up for not being able to be at your loved one’s side when they need you most." and I the first part (up to legal redress) caused me to brainfart and think terminal illness. Sorry for any confusion.
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Actually, as of January 2011, he had more right to be there than the brother. The Department of Health and Human Services has a set of guidelines for any hospital receiving government funds (including but not limited Medicare & Medicaid) that they can not discriminate visitation on the basis of sexual orientation nor gender identity. They should have, and were obligated to, treat Gorley as Allen's spouse and allow visitation to him over Allen's shitty family. I also sincerely doubt Gorley would've been kicked out if he were Allen's wife, all things being equal.
Again, he never displayed his paperwork that indicated that he had power of attorney. It's very probable that whoever elected to boot him out had no idea who he was in relation to the patient. Again, miscommunication and misunderstandings can cause a hell of a lot of problems. We can't just think "Oh, they were being mean and evil bigots" without proof.
Second, if he was disruptive, so the fuck what?!? His husband is on his death bed and the family who abandoned his husband is fighting to make sure he can't be there for the one he loves most. That would get just about anybody whipped into a frenzy.
That's all well and good, but it's not how hospitals work. If people are fighting loud enough OUTSIDE of the patient's room to disrupt the nearby patients, they'll get removed. All patients have a right to comfort and peace and the doctors and nurses have a right to a good working environment. No matter how emotional and heated things get, there are standards of respect that everyone has to follow. They were too emotional to settle anything peacefully, and thus would have very rightly been removed. The only problem I'm seeing is that only ONE person was immediately pulled out by police after refusing to leave rather than both of them.
Legally, he's not required to present any paperwork proving he has the power of attorney. They simply have to take his word for it--especially since the patient himself was saying he wanted his husband to stay. Legally, that is the end of the road. The hospital had no reason at all to doubt his position. But they did it anyway, in direct violation of federal regulations.
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QoH hit the nail on the head. I just want to emphasis one more point...
especially since the patient himself was saying he wanted his husband to stay.
I could understand there being confusion if the nurse was not aware of the situation. To be honest, there could even be some confusion about which man was the husband and which was the brother. (Siblings do not always look alike...) It would be possible (unlikely, but possible) for the nurse to throw the husband out, thinking he was the brother, and allowing the brother to stay because she thought he was the husband with the PoA.
But all of that goes out the window when the patient himself is speaking up and asking for his husband to be allowed to stay. That alone should answer any questions of identity and who has the legal authority.
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You can't make this shit up:
“It makes news because of the f*gs,” says HCA employee of bias charge (http://americablog.com/2013/04/hca-employee-slur-gay-visitation-gorley.html)
A former employee of Research Medical Center, and a current employee of a Hospital Corporation of America (HCA) subsidiary – HCA is the parent company of Research Medical – says the hospital does not discriminate against “f*gs.”
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You can't make this shit up:
“It makes news because of the f*gs,” says HCA employee of bias charge (http://americablog.com/2013/04/hca-employee-slur-gay-visitation-gorley.html)
A former employee of Research Medical Center, and a current employee of a Hospital Corporation of America (HCA) subsidiary – HCA is the parent company of Research Medical – says the hospital does not discriminate against “f*gs.”
And they reveal their true colors! Again, I say...LAWSUIT TIME!
You have a married gay couple, one of them have controlling, homophobic psycho siblings who get him hospitalized under false pretenses. Said hospital is not the one the gay man regularly uses & is run by homophobes. The whole thing from the hospitalization onwards screams HOMOPHOBIC KIDNAPPING HATE CRIME!
This is PURE EVIL!
Something must be done! No wonder the other husband went bonkers! I'd be postal, too! My man was basically kidnapped!
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Taking the daughter's lengthy eyewitness report to heart, I am again going to call the nurse - who had treated the patient many times before (this was the same ward in the same hospital he got his periodic shock therapy at), who knew his partner, who knew about the medical POA, who was Not in the least confused as to who was who in that hospital room > boom! She is ground zero, she called in security against the legal spouse, knowing full fucking well it was wrong. She's a homophobic cunt! And the security and the cops were total thugs to the husband. And I want to strangle the patient's brother, who in my opinion, committed kidnapping by way of a malicious false report to the EMTs and cops that hauled the patient from his home in the first place.
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You can't make this shit up:
“It makes news because of the f*gs,” says HCA employee of bias charge (http://americablog.com/2013/04/hca-employee-slur-gay-visitation-gorley.html)
A former employee of Research Medical Center, and a current employee of a Hospital Corporation of America (HCA) subsidiary – HCA is the parent company of Research Medical – says the hospital does not discriminate against “f*gs.”
(http://americablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/HCA-research-medical-center.jpg)
(http://americablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/hca-research-medical-center2.jpg)
Ah, she's one of those: scream free speech when receiving backlash for comments she made, because it somehow exempts her from criticism. Why am I not surprised? Though from the comments, she was probably told not to say those things if she valued her job, thinking that she can get away with doing whatever when she's not on the clock.
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You can't make this shit up:
“It makes news because of the f*gs,” says HCA employee of bias charge (http://americablog.com/2013/04/hca-employee-slur-gay-visitation-gorley.html)
A former employee of Research Medical Center, and a current employee of a Hospital Corporation of America (HCA) subsidiary – HCA is the parent company of Research Medical – says the hospital does not discriminate against “f*gs.”
Well, now anyone who tries to dismiss this as simply an administrative oversight is wrong, wrong, wrong.
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..............Well.
I bet when she gets fired the fundies will scream and rage about discrimination against Christians.
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Mwuhahahahaha! Teh ghey agenda stwikes again!
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So what was her involvement in this?
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I wonder how she would feel if people started calling her names. Would there still be a right to free speech? I doubt it. It seems to vanish as soon as you're the one being criticized.
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Well then, it seems that the hospital is going to have to do something or else be sued, if that is even possible or feasible. So, I wouldn't be surprised if they fire the nurse or anyone else that was involved and having a hand in this in order to save face.
Queen, that was a very thoughtful post that you wrote.
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Indeed. I just wish a certain person would man up and admit he's wrong though.
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Indeed. I just wish a certain person would man up and admit he's wrong though.
Was this aimed at me? If so, yup, I was wrong. I didn't realize that the nurse that treated the man was the same one who always treated him. I knew the hospital was where he normally got electroshock, but since that was the only reason he went there, it could make sense that not everyone knew him there.
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no no no. chi
ironbite-he was wrong
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No, man of the odd post cadence, I WASN'T wrong. Because being wrong would imply that I had taken a side one way or the other, or that I was counterfactual.
If you look in every single post that I've made in this thread, I have never said that the hospital was definitely not engaging in homophobic bigotry. Nor have I definitely said that they WERE. Every time I've posted here, it's been to urge cautious in making assumptions and to wait for more information before jumping to a conclusion about bigotry.
As wonderful as Queen's post was, it didn't answer anything I was asking. It made a lot of accusations, but didn't reveal anything new about how the hospital acted or proved that it was anything more than a bad situation brought about by miscommunication and lack of information.
The post about the former employee saying something bigoted also doesn't prove anything, as much as people want to crow about it, because it was made by a FORMER EMPLOYEE. They're taking the casual insults of a woman who no longer works at that hospital as evidence that the hospital is bigoted against homosexuals. Taking it as evidence of bigotry is the exact wrong way to go about it, and makes me wonder just how many of the premature accusations are based on emotional responses.
Again, I'm not going toward either side right now. It's not "wrong" to wait for more information before making a judgement, and attacking me for not immediately making homophobia accusations and acting like I'm implicitly supporting homophobic judgments is plainly ridiculous.