Author Topic: Worst of Social Justice  (Read 1550268 times)

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Offline TheUnknown

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7080 on: September 26, 2015, 12:13:50 am »
This argument seems to come from a place of "everyone's feelings are legitimate - everyone." An idea that I just cannot understand in this context.

Personally, these Tumblrinas seem to love invoking "Aro/Ace Kids" and ideas of "corrective sexual assault on Aro/Ace people." I haven't heard of such a practice, nor have I ever seen any news about such a thing happening.

If I had to guess, I'd say they're talking about how society and culture pressures people to marry and have sex, even though Aro/Ace people have no desire to do so.  That pressure for them to give in to their partners is therefore seen as "corrective sexual assault".  That's my take on it, anyway.

Offline I am lizard

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7081 on: September 26, 2015, 12:29:10 am »
This argument seems to come from a place of "everyone's feelings are legitimate - everyone." An idea that I just cannot understand in this context.

Personally, these Tumblrinas seem to love invoking "Aro/Ace Kids" and ideas of "corrective sexual assault on Aro/Ace people." I haven't heard of such a practice, nor have I ever seen any news about such a thing happening.

If I had to guess, I'd say they're talking about how society and culture pressures people to marry and have sex, even though Aro/Ace people have no desire to do so.  That pressure for them to give in to their partners is therefore seen as "corrective sexual assault".  That's my take on it, anyway.
Or maybe it's the corrective rape of asexuals or aromantics?

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7082 on: September 26, 2015, 12:57:15 am »
This argument seems to come from a place of "everyone's feelings are legitimate - everyone." An idea that I just cannot understand in this context.

Personally, these Tumblrinas seem to love invoking "Aro/Ace Kids" and ideas of "corrective sexual assault on Aro/Ace people." I haven't heard of such a practice, nor have I ever seen any news about such a thing happening.

If I had to guess, I'd say they're talking about how society and culture pressures people to marry and have sex, even though Aro/Ace people have no desire to do so.  That pressure for them to give in to their partners is therefore seen as "corrective sexual assault".  That's my take on it, anyway.
Or maybe it's the corrective rape of asexuals or aromantics?
Has that ever actually happened, though? I've heard of "corrective rape" of lesbians happening in Africa, but I've never heard of anyone specifically raping asexuals in order to "correct" them.

Offline SCarpelan

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7083 on: September 26, 2015, 01:36:48 am »
Meh. If people are coming up with new words to describe how they feel about things I couldn't care less. They sound often silly to me but since I'm not a telepath and human mind is a complicated mess I'm not going to dismiss this stuff outright or mock it either. The victim mentality on the other hand annoys me and Art hit the nail in the head when it comes to comparisons to trans- and homophobia.

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7084 on: September 26, 2015, 09:04:02 am »
This argument seems to come from a place of "everyone's feelings are legitimate - everyone." An idea that I just cannot understand in this context.

Personally, these Tumblrinas seem to love invoking "Aro/Ace Kids" and ideas of "corrective sexual assault on Aro/Ace people." I haven't heard of such a practice, nor have I ever seen any news about such a thing happening.

If I had to guess, I'd say they're talking about how society and culture pressures people to marry and have sex, even though Aro/Ace people have no desire to do so.  That pressure for them to give in to their partners is therefore seen as "corrective sexual assault".  That's my take on it, anyway.
Or maybe it's the corrective rape of asexuals or aromantics?
Has that ever actually happened, though? I've heard of "corrective rape" of lesbians happening in Africa, but I've never heard of anyone specifically raping asexuals in order to "correct" them.

It might not be called such, but there is a HUGE amount of societal pressure to conform to the norm of being sexual/romantic, to the point that folks who aren't force themselves into sexual relationships even though they don't want them.  Think of it not as individual coercion, but societal coercion.
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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7085 on: September 26, 2015, 09:11:42 am »
This argument seems to come from a place of "everyone's feelings are legitimate - everyone." An idea that I just cannot understand in this context.

Personally, these Tumblrinas seem to love invoking "Aro/Ace Kids" and ideas of "corrective sexual assault on Aro/Ace people." I haven't heard of such a practice, nor have I ever seen any news about such a thing happening.

If I had to guess, I'd say they're talking about how society and culture pressures people to marry and have sex, even though Aro/Ace people have no desire to do so.  That pressure for them to give in to their partners is therefore seen as "corrective sexual assault".  That's my take on it, anyway.
Or maybe it's the corrective rape of asexuals or aromantics?
Has that ever actually happened, though? I've heard of "corrective rape" of lesbians happening in Africa, but I've never heard of anyone specifically raping asexuals in order to "correct" them.

It might not be called such, but there is a HUGE amount of societal pressure to conform to the norm of being sexual/romantic, to the point that folks who aren't force themselves into sexual relationships even though they don't want them.  Think of it not as individual coercion, but societal coercion.

Of course, nobody's questioning that (at least, I'm not). I'm referring to corrective rape of asexuals. I only ask because Lizard said it could be a thing, and now my curiosity is piqued.

Offline Ghoti

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7086 on: September 26, 2015, 11:45:52 am »
Of course, nobody's questioning that (at least, I'm not). I'm referring to corrective rape of asexuals. I only ask because Lizard said it could be a thing, and now my curiosity is piqued.
Yeah, same here. I've heard that same claim a bunch of times, but the only thing I can find on google is a Fluffpost article and a poll for which most of the answers are "no" on an asexuality forum.
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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7087 on: September 26, 2015, 11:53:40 am »
Yeah, no. If you can't tell the difference between homophobia and transphobia (i.e. actual bigotry and discrimination, occasionally even to the point of outright murder, of people over a real, medically recognised sexuality and/or gender) and mocking some attention whore on the internet for making up his/her own sexualities and genders on the spot, often complete with nonsensical pronouns, then you're a fucking moron.

What can I say? I and most others here don't just much conservative fundies, we mock stupidity in all its forms. If mocking Tumblrinas offends you whereas mocking neocons is the greatest thing ever in your book, then I'd say it's you who's the hypocrite. Geez, at least some people try to be subtle about their tribalism.

Apparently being peeved at having one's experienced delegitimized as just tumblrina faking delusional special snowflake bullshit is "tribalism" now? Also, yeah, people making new terms to explain and make sense of their emotional experiences is totally on the same level as conservativism, these aren't diametrically opposed concepts or anything.

Also, here's someone with an actual certified doctorate acknowledging the issue and providing sources. But yeah, whatever, no actual discrimination at all, nope~ Tell me, what's the minimum amount of discrimination that has to exist before you can be bothered to acknowledge it?

But yes. Positing that this is on the exact same level of severity as homophobia and transphobia by making a direct comparison would be fucking asinine and offensive. I acknowledge that. It's a damn good thing I never did that, though; all I said (or tried to get across) was that if you have a problem with people of one sexual/romantic/gender identity being discriminated against but gleefully mock another one because it sounds "fake" and "made-up" enough for you to safely indulge in cognitive dissonance without remorse or misgivings, then you've got another think coming.

This argument seems to come from a place of "everyone's feelings are legitimate - everyone." An idea that I just cannot understand in this context.

Personally, these Tumblrinas seem to love invoking "Aro/Ace Kids" and ideas of "corrective sexual assault on Aro/Ace people." I haven't heard of such a practice, nor have I ever seen any news about such a thing happening.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/20/asexual-discrimination_n_3380551.html
https://thethinkingasexual.wordpress.com/2012/04/02/men-masculinity-asexuality-and-rape/
http://vindictadulcae.tumblr.com/post/48388509611/this-is-not-a-blog-no-seriously-tw-rape

Wow, look at all this talk and these testimonies about corrective sexual assault that asexual people face. I only had to google for five fucking minutes to find this, there's probably more but I'm not your damn Googlebot, find it yourselves. (but it'll probably get rejected because tumblr and Huffpost because genetic fallacies are just so much fun amirite, ohohoho)

In general, there's this attitude in this thread and all over the web that if people talk about an issue, then it's assumed that the people talking about it think that it's THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE AND EVERY OTHER ISSUE IS TRIVIAL COMPARED TO IT. Which... isn't how anything works. If a guy's talking about having his toe cut off, he's not saying "lol suck it up people who have had bombs blow up their entire legs", and it doesn't mean he didn't get his toe cut off in the first place. This wilful misrepresentation is something that I thought this site and you people were above.

Offline guizonde

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7088 on: September 26, 2015, 01:17:47 pm »
yeah, see, now, because you're angry, you're making an ass of yourself.

if you read the thread in its entirety, you'll see why we're jaded about a lot of what tumblr has to offer. for example, fictionkin and objectkin. those are silly and delegitimize the trans movement by taking away necessary attention to it, namely when fictionkin say they experience disphoria.

tribalism would be more along the lines of "believing everything you read on the internet". we know that tumblr is a hotbed of teenage attention-seeking, so that's why we have two threads to talk about social justice. the "worst", where we showcase the asses, and the "best", where sensible things are posted. we also have the "things" threads where we can post things not directly related to social justice. around here, skepticism is the norm, and most of us read everything with a grain of salt.

there is discrimination everywhere, of course, but baby steps. most humans are simple creatures who can only be bothered with the flavor of the week. 10 years ago in the usa, gay marriage would never have passed. then came civil unions, marches, legislation, and look where we are. progress is maddeningly slow, and most people don't even know the existence of asexuals, because it's misunderstood. what do we do? we don't cry about it, we tackle bigger more flashy issues until the populace can accept it, in a sort of positive trickle-down effect.

you've given us three sources, sure. two blogs and the huffpost. frankly, it's niche at best. i'm not saying it doesn't exist, i'm saying that people don't care because they don't even know aces exist in the first place. does that make them cold? no, they treat it like generalized rape. which it is. you wanna tackle the ace rape problem? tackle a bigger fish, like rape (of all kind and against all victims).

and unfortunately, with hyperbole being difficult to separate from the truth on the internet, yes, people who post do believe their issue is the single most important one. hell, most people find it hard to concentrate on two things at once (for example, abortion clinic bombings and gay rights). you get jaded after a while.

there, i believe i said all that should be said about your angry rant in a calm collected manner.

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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7089 on: September 26, 2015, 03:17:07 pm »
This argument seems to come from a place of "everyone's feelings are legitimate - everyone." An idea that I just cannot understand in this context.

Personally, these Tumblrinas seem to love invoking "Aro/Ace Kids" and ideas of "corrective sexual assault on Aro/Ace people." I haven't heard of such a practice, nor have I ever seen any news about such a thing happening.

If I had to guess, I'd say they're talking about how society and culture pressures people to marry and have sex, even though Aro/Ace people have no desire to do so.  That pressure for them to give in to their partners is therefore seen as "corrective sexual assault".  That's my take on it, anyway.
Or maybe it's the corrective rape of asexuals or aromantics?
Has that ever actually happened, though? I've heard of "corrective rape" of lesbians happening in Africa, but I've never heard of anyone specifically raping asexuals in order to "correct" them.

Yes, it has. Not sure how common it is, but it has happened.
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Offline I am lizard

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7090 on: September 26, 2015, 03:57:50 pm »
This argument seems to come from a place of "everyone's feelings are legitimate - everyone." An idea that I just cannot understand in this context.

Personally, these Tumblrinas seem to love invoking "Aro/Ace Kids" and ideas of "corrective sexual assault on Aro/Ace people." I haven't heard of such a practice, nor have I ever seen any news about such a thing happening.

If I had to guess, I'd say they're talking about how society and culture pressures people to marry and have sex, even though Aro/Ace people have no desire to do so.  That pressure for them to give in to their partners is therefore seen as "corrective sexual assault".  That's my take on it, anyway.
Or maybe it's the corrective rape of asexuals or aromantics?
Has that ever actually happened, though? I've heard of "corrective rape" of lesbians happening in Africa, but I've never heard of anyone specifically raping asexuals in order to "correct" them.
Probably, corrective rape is highly prevalent in the LGBT community* so I'd imagine it'd be common in the Ace community.

*in America as well, I believe like 40-30% of lesbians and 50% of transgenders have experienced rape or attempted rape.

Offline mellenORL

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7091 on: September 26, 2015, 04:12:13 pm »
Things are a bit better now, but yes, ages ago I was slapped by a frustrated guy and had a very close call when another dude clearly thought he could turn me. There are rapists out there, always have been, always will be. They will find an excuse, and I'm sure an ace person is absolutely just as vulnerable a "tempting challenge" as lesbians were and still are. But the point is rape is about domination and control, so a lot of people are potential targets to various rapists out there.
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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7092 on: September 26, 2015, 09:40:51 pm »
Apparently being peeved at having one's experienced delegitimized as just tumblrina faking delusional special snowflake bullshit is "tribalism" now? Also, yeah, people making new terms to explain and make sense of their emotional experiences is totally on the same level as conservativism, these aren't diametrically opposed concepts or anything.

Also, here's someone with an actual certified doctorate acknowledging the issue and providing sources. But yeah, whatever, no actual discrimination at all, nope~ Tell me, what's the minimum amount of discrimination that has to exist before you can be bothered to acknowledge it?

But yes. Positing that this is on the exact same level of severity as homophobia and transphobia by making a direct comparison would be fucking asinine and offensive. I acknowledge that. It's a damn good thing I never did that, though; all I said (or tried to get across) was that if you have a problem with people of one sexual/romantic/gender identity being discriminated against but gleefully mock another one because it sounds "fake" and "made-up" enough for you to safely indulge in cognitive dissonance without remorse or misgivings, then you've got another think coming.
Alright, I think you've got the wrong idea here. Nobody here is mocking asexuals as a whole, or saying they don't really exist and are just attention seekers, we're taking the piss out of a small subset of idiots on Tumblr (who may or may not actually be asexual themselves) who just make up nonsense like "queerplatonic" just to make something as mundane as being friends with people seem unique and special. That's the kind of thing we're dismissing as special snowflake bullshit. Again, we all know that asexuality is indeed a real, medically proven trait, nobody is trying to mock or dismiss asexuality itself.

You know how we love to take the piss out of idiots who make up their own genders (nonsense like "quirogender", "voidgender", "purplegender", "demiquasiblowblowgender" and the like), yet that doesn't mean we're dismissing or mocking actual transpeople? This is pretty much the same sort of thing. If we managed to hit a nerve that badly (or "triggered" you, if you will, heh heh), you may want to take some time to calm down before posting in this thread some more.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2015, 11:16:02 pm by Art Vandelay »

Offline Sleepy

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7093 on: September 26, 2015, 11:01:37 pm »
My understanding is that people are frustrated with idiots who have special snowflake syndrome. Some of them will insist they are unique or oppressed because of a nonsensical condition they create for themselves (headmates are an example) or because of a trait that's fairly common within our population (like demisexuality). I don't think the issue is the label itself, but rather the folks who are extreme in their behavior. They often behave this way because they lack a sense of identity otherwise, so they cling to whatever trait will allow them to feel good about themselves and fit within a small community that can reinforce this perspective.

I don't think these people are the worst thing ever. There are more damaging people in the community, but that doesn't mean some of these special snowflakes aren't annoying as hell. I have little tolerance for whiny teenagers.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2015, 11:10:29 pm by Sleepy »
Guys, this is getting creepy. Can we talk about cannibalism instead?

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Offline niam2023

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7094 on: September 26, 2015, 11:30:06 pm »
Plus, some of the Tumblr User "triggers" are utterly laughable.

I'm sorry, you're triggered by Super Mario because you have Luigi as a headmate? You don't want to see a church because you think you're a malign star god?
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