Author Topic: Video Game Thread 2.0  (Read 1516172 times)

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Offline ironbite

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #1845 on: February 26, 2013, 01:57:36 am »
Or better English?

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #1846 on: February 26, 2013, 03:59:49 am »
Thief was, in my opinion, one of the only games to ever do stealth right.  Yes, Splinter Cell was very good, in that regard, not sayin anything else.  However, Thief gave you exactly what you needed, and little to nothing else: a way to tell how visible you are (light gem), some kind of feedback on how loud you're being (one of the earliest examples of 3D audio with actual, nearly-believable propagation mechanics), and...the one thing a LOT of stealth-based, or stealth-inclusive games fuck up: your character isn't an unstoppable killing machine.

The latter point is a huge one, because if you can effectively tank all your enemies...what's the point in hiding?  Why sneak around when you can just cleave a few dozen bastards in two with a sword, or blow them to kingdom come with an assault rifle?  Thief both actively and passively punished you for fucking up the whole sneaking thing: guards would be harder to fool, bodies you'd have to hide, blood to clean up, guards hearing someone screaming as they die from an arrow to the eye or a sword to the spine, and on higher difficulties, outright failing you on the mission, thus forcing you to restart either from the beginning or your last save, should you kill.  Hell, on the highest difficulty, the game outright forbids you from killing anyone outside monsters and steampunk robots.

However, given the tech we've got nowadays, I fail to see why we haven't had another stealth-based game that can rival Thief, both in gameplay and storytelling.  For fuck's sake, we've got games like fucking Crysis, whose graphics can end up looking as close to photorealistic as we can get in a game...and, from what I've seen at max settings, it gets pretty fucking close.  Why the hell can't we say, cut that graphics power requirement in half, have a game that looks good without having graphics that'd give any photographer a raging hardon for at least an hour, and use the resulting freed-up resources to make an epic stealth game?

Then again, we do have Thief 4 in the works, so maybe I'll see it realized, at long last.  That is, if Eidos Montreal aren't too busy not showing us a god damned thing, not even fucking concept art.  Its been some four fucking years, and we've gotten practically nothing outside a logo.  I understand not showing things because they can be changed, especially at the early stages, but one: its been four god damned years, and two: give the fans fucking SOMETHING for waiting this damn long.  A piece of concept art, sound clips, trailer, anything.  Drag your feet too long and give us no real proof outside a few forum posts that you're actually working on this game, and most of the fans will likely end up walking away to other things, and you'll end up fucking your game right in the ass.
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Offline chitoryu12

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #1847 on: February 26, 2013, 04:32:08 am »
Psh. Thief fans are Thief fans. If they're fans of a game that hasn't had a new installment for 9 years and first came out in the 20th century, they're not flavor-of-the-month dilettantes who will move on to the Next Big Thing (TM) if they don't get immediate satisfaction.

The success of Thief 4 will depend on what it looks like when they're confident in the finished product. If the series has enough staying power to attract a fanbase that remains despite not having any updates in almost a decade, it's got enough power to make the fans buy it no matter how long it takes. Better for them to work on it as long as they can and make sure that they have a good product instead of following the Call of Duty standard and shipping out something quickly hashed together with nothing but the branding to guarantee them cash.

I follow the same principal with the new Half-Life game. I'm fully confident that Valve is working on it; it's not uncommon for developers to have a team secretly working on their other projects while they release more public stuff to keep the gamers occupied (Assassin's Creed 3 entered development almost immediately after 2 came out, with the rest of the team shelling out more Ezio stories to keep stuff from stagnating due to the long development cycle). I'd rather they spend as much time as they need to make sure that it's a good game and a proper finish to the Half-Life 2 story, and you just KNOW that it'll make major moolah. Hell, Half-Life 3/Episode 3 is such a famous mythical concept that it'll make waves just through the release of a single screenshot, let alone releasing the game. Their fanbase is big enough that there's pretty much no way to lose unless they take so long that all of the fans die first.
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #1848 on: February 26, 2013, 04:44:06 am »
Aye, I know, its just bloody irritating.  I mean, Guild Wars 2 took forever, but the devs at least gave us a taste of it in the meantime.  Eidos hasn't done jack.  Seriously, I've checked their little Thief 4 forum about...once every 2-3 months, and I've seen maybe, one or two updates in the past year.  Mostly either shifting community reps or saying "we're making it!"  That's effectively fuckin nothing.  I want some proof that they're doing what they say they're doing and aren't pulling a Duke Nukem Forever on us.  I mean, come on...you can't say that, after 4 years, they haven't at least got some pieces of concept art floating about they could show us.  Not unless they're painting them all on canvas and pressing their own dyes for the paints, which while commendable for extreme commitment, would be very unlikely, to say the least.
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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #1849 on: February 26, 2013, 04:56:39 am »
Kefka, could you please start using puncuation? I sometimes have trouble understanding what you are trying to say.
Too fucking right.

Offline chitoryu12

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #1850 on: February 26, 2013, 05:58:53 am »
Aye, I know, its just bloody irritating.  I mean, Guild Wars 2 took forever, but the devs at least gave us a taste of it in the meantime.  Eidos hasn't done jack.  Seriously, I've checked their little Thief 4 forum about...once every 2-3 months, and I've seen maybe, one or two updates in the past year.  Mostly either shifting community reps or saying "we're making it!"  That's effectively fuckin nothing.  I want some proof that they're doing what they say they're doing and aren't pulling a Duke Nukem Forever on us.  I mean, come on...you can't say that, after 4 years, they haven't at least got some pieces of concept art floating about they could show us.  Not unless they're painting them all on canvas and pressing their own dyes for the paints, which while commendable for extreme commitment, would be very unlikely, to say the least.

I think Duke Nukem Forever has scared a lot of developers into considering their end product more, but they also made a lot of really unique mistakes. I've played through the entirety of the game for an LP on another site (sadly lost when the board went down), and an acquaintance of mine has worked in game development for a long time (he did a lot of the work on Mechwarrior 2, specifically) and shed a little light on the thinking behind everything.

DNF was overly ambitious, trying to slavishly add every single advancement made in gaming technology as it appeared. It got to the point where they'd be forced to rebuild the entire game for the next engine that came out, without considering the time it would take to effectively make the entire game from scratch. It puttered along, always trying to remain ahead of the curve but falling behind with the constant delays and attempts to "improve", until finally they just quit. Then Gearbox came in, slapped together whatever they could into something that could reasonably be called a video game on the same engine 100% of the time, and shipped it out while relying on nothing but the apparent triumph of releasing the most infamous vaporware in gaming history to actually sell.

The results speak for themselves. It's a mess, never quite doing anything right but managing to get a lot wrong. A lot of the content is left over from the earliest development back in the 90s while trying to mix in modern gaming tropes (like a two-weapon inventory and regenerative health) to make it seem current. It's obviously sloppily hashed together, with filler to stretch the game out to about 14 hours.

I don't see Thief 4 or Half-Life 2: Episode 3 following these mistakes. Aside from being more competent developers (who aren't trying to revive a parody of 80s and 90s action heroes while incorporating shock jock-style offensive content for cheap thrills and simultaneously mocking the more successful games of the generation), I think that they're taking a long time purely because they want the end product to be the best it can be. DNF was the product of trying to constantly add more, whether or not it made sense, and being willing to throw out and redo everything due to an almost delusional fear of looking dated (which the final product does). Few developers will throw out their entire nearly finished game and rebuild it even once, and it takes a special kind of stupid to do it over and over again until you're over a decade in and have nothing to show for it.
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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #1851 on: February 26, 2013, 06:40:37 am »
The results speak for themselves. It's a mess, never quite doing anything right but managing to get a lot wrong. A lot of the content is left over from the earliest development back in the 90s while trying to mix in modern gaming tropes (like a two-weapon inventory and regenerative health) to make it seem current. It's obviously sloppily hashed together, with filler to stretch the game out to about 14 hours.
I've got to defend one thing about DNF, the regenerating health is actually from a duke game from prior to the final restart of the project. Ego is lifted almost completely from Manhattan Project, and honestly was one of the most amusing parts of that game. It fit the character to well not to keep.

Offline Dakota Bob

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #1852 on: February 26, 2013, 06:43:45 am »
Man, Thief is one of many games I never got around to completing, I have a boxset of the games somewhere around, I'm hoping I can get them working on a Windows 7 machine. was I the only one who enjoyed Thief 3, the asylum level is still one of the best levels in any game ever.

Offline kefkaownsall

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #1853 on: February 26, 2013, 08:12:38 am »
OKAY I GET IT I'LL START USING PUNCTUATION.  Hyperventilates JUST STOP!   I've been having legally debilitating panic attacks.

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #1854 on: February 26, 2013, 08:15:19 am »
OKAY I GET IT I'LL START USING PUNCTUATION.  Hyperventilates JUST STOP!   I've been having legally debilitating panic attacks.
You forgot a comma, right after "OKAY". There should a full stop right after "IT" and at the very least, a comma after "Hyperventilates".
« Last Edit: February 26, 2013, 08:18:22 am by Art Vandelay »

Offline kefkaownsall

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #1855 on: February 26, 2013, 08:20:20 am »
Way to miss the point. 
JUST STOP

Offline Sleepy

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #1856 on: February 26, 2013, 10:22:24 am »
Man, I miss Thief. I have the first two games and am still in the middle of the first one. I'm not a huge stealth game maniac, but it's beautifully implemented and makes the games so rewarding.
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Offline chitoryu12

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #1857 on: February 26, 2013, 11:05:43 am »
OKAY I GET IT I'LL START USING PUNCTUATION.  Hyperventilates JUST STOP!   I've been having legally debilitating panic attacks.

Over.....punctuation?
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Offline ironbite

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #1858 on: February 26, 2013, 12:15:16 pm »
I prefer Zero Punctuation myself.

Offline Dakota Bob

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #1859 on: February 26, 2013, 01:36:31 pm »
Okay after beating System Shock 2 I decided to give the original a try. On the second level I find a switch, so I use it. SHODAN then contacts me and says "Thank you for destroying the greater part of earth for me. Please wait there to be escorted to the celebration" So I look a little left and see a sign that says "Laser Control" I'm impressed a game would let me fuck up that hard. an A+ to you, Looking Glass Studios.