Apparently The Only People Allowed To "Stand Their Ground" Are Men

[TenfoldMaquette]

I think Tenfold was being sarcastic.

Only sorta.

If the guy had a history of abusive behavior, taking a shot at him in the aftermath of a confrontation - while not necessarily excusable - is somewhat understandable. If you've suffered at someone else's hands long enough, once you break...things get messy, and no, you don't think straight. I think trying to put her away for 20 years for missing her target is a little off-base, considering you can get roughly the same sentence for actually killing someone under the right circumstances.

I only skimmed the articles in question tho, so feel free to throw most of this out as baseless wargarble if I'm arguing on false premise.

[kefkaownsall]

I think Tenfold was being sarcastic.

Only sorta.

If the guy had a history of abusive behavior, taking a shot at him in the aftermath of a confrontation - while not necessarily excusable - is somewhat understandable. If you've suffered at someone else's hands long enough, once you break...things get messy, and no, you don't think straight. I think trying to put her away for 20 years for missing her target is a little off-base, considering you can get roughly the same sentence for actually killing someone under the right circumstances.

I only skimmed the articles in question tho, so feel free to throw most of this out as baseless wargarble if I'm arguing on false premise.

Typically wtih abuse murders the question is whether or not the burning bed defense comes into play

[Witchyjoshy]

Hello term I've never heard before.

Considering I'm afraid that googling that will get me either strange porn or Lady Gaga music videos, can someone explain the "burning bed defense"?

[Smurfette Principle]

Hello term I've never heard before.

Considering I'm afraid that googling that will get me either strange porn or Lady Gaga music videos, can someone explain the "burning bed defense"?

It's the idea of the "battered wife" defense. Basically, even if a murder is premeditated (like this one, where she set fire to the bed after being abused for thirteen years), you can argue that it was a slow build-up of insanity and you snapped.

[erictheblue]

It's commonly known as "Battered Woman Syndrome." As Smurfette said, it is used as an "imperfect defense" to murder in an attempt to mitigate murder down to manslaughter. The idea is that self-defense can be used in a situation where a "rational" person would believe they are at risk of death or serious bodily injury. A person who has been systematically abused by their spouse can reach a point where, even though they are not at that exact moment being attacked, they believe they must kill their partner or they will be killed. So while (s)he honestly believes (s)he will die unless (s)he kills his/her partner at that moment, most people would not consider that belief "rational." (Because the partner was asleep, watching TV, etc.)

49 states* and DC allow expert testimony regarding BWS, though not all states allow the expert to testify about whether the defendant in that exact case suffered from BWS.

* North Carolina is the exception.


(I am taking a Domestic Violence class this semester. And I am doing my paper on male victims of DV, and so am a little touchy about assuming victims are female.  )

[ironbite]

But Eric...didn't you know?  Men can never ever be victims of domestic violence because men are strong strapping lads and women are wilting willowy flowers.

Ironbite-or some shit like that.

[kefkaownsall]

It's commonly known as "Battered Woman Syndrome." As Smurfette said, it is used as an "imperfect defense" to murder in an attempt to mitigate murder down to manslaughter. The idea is that self-defense can be used in a situation where a "rational" person would believe they are at risk of death or serious bodily injury. A person who has been systematically abused by their spouse can reach a point where, even though they are not at that exact moment being attacked, they believe they must kill their partner or they will be killed. So while (s)he honestly believes (s)he will die unless (s)he kills his/her partner at that moment, most people would not consider that belief "rational." (Because the partner was asleep, watching TV, etc.)

49 states* and DC allow expert testimony regarding BWS, though not all states allow the expert to testify about whether the defendant in that exact case suffered from BWS.

* North Carolina is the exception.


(I am taking a Domestic Violence class this semester. And I am doing my paper on male victims of DV, and so am a little touchy about assuming victims are female.  )

I did this for mock trial and she would have to prove that there was no way period like in the trial her family told her you're a woman deal with it

[Witchyjoshy]

But Eric...didn't you know?  Men can never ever be victims of domestic violence because men are strong strapping lads and women are wilting willowy flowers.

Ironbite-or some shit like that.

Not to mention men can never be raped by a woman because they obviously can control when they're hard and when they're not.

[Dantes Virgil]

The linked court document goes on to mention, though, that after this woman posted bail and was told to stay away from the people she shot at, she then went on to drive to the man's new house and physically attacked the man, causing him injury.  Then they revoked her bail and rearrested her.  In both attacks the man called 9-1-1 but the woman did not.  I'm certainly willing to consider battered woman syndrome to an extent, and none of us can really know all of what went on.  But it sounds like a lot more is going on in that dysfunctional relationship than what the first article might lead us to believe.

[TenfoldMaquette]

Basically, even if a murder is premeditated (like this one, where she set fire to the bed after being abused for thirteen years), you can argue that it was a slow build-up of insanity and you snapped.

Been there, considered that. The moment when you realize that the painful death of someone else is both necessary and justified toward ensuring your own survival is...enlightening.

The linked court document goes on to mention, though, that after this woman posted bail and was told to stay away from the people she shot at, she then went on to drive to the man's new house and physically attacked the man, causing him injury.  Then they revoked her bail and rearrested her.  In both attacks the man called 9-1-1 but the woman did not.  I'm certainly willing to consider battered woman syndrome to an extent, and none of us can really know all of what went on.  But it sounds like a lot more is going on in that dysfunctional relationship than what the first article might lead us to believe.

This is troubling. Even if she's a battered woman, trying to seek out and kill someone over and over isn't right. Hopefully someone steps in and settles this before she can hurt anyone.

[N. De Plume]

But Eric...didn't you know?  Men can never ever be victims of domestic violence because men are strong strapping lads and women are wilting willowy flowers.

Ironbite-or some shit like that.

Not to mention men can never be raped by a woman because they obviously can control when they're hard and when they're not.

And don’t you know a guy is always willing, anyway? You don’t gotta worry about consent because all men are sex maniacs who want some and want it now.

[Witchyjoshy]

But Eric...didn't you know?  Men can never ever be victims of domestic violence because men are strong strapping lads and women are wilting willowy flowers.

Ironbite-or some shit like that.

Not to mention men can never be raped by a woman because they obviously can control when they're hard and when they're not.

And don’t you know a guy is always willing, anyway? You don’t gotta worry about consent because all men are sex maniacs who want some and want it now.

Yes.

Oh, and that kid who got raped by totally scored it with the hot science teacher?  So lucky.

BLARRTPGHGFKLFLLKKNNN...

I think I just ejected my stomach.

[Askold]

But Eric...didn't you know?  Men can never ever be victims of domestic violence because men are strong strapping lads and women are wilting willowy flowers.

Ironbite-or some shit like that.

Not to mention men can never be raped by a woman because they obviously can control when they're hard and when they're not.

And don’t you know a guy is always willing, anyway? You don’t gotta worry about consent because all men are sex maniacs who want some and want it now.

And this is the reason why gay men aren't always allowed to Women's shelter while trying to escape abusive boyfriend/husband.

Yes.

Oh, and that kid who got raped by totally scored it with the hot science teacher?  So lucky.

BLARRTPGHGFKLFLLKKNNN...

I think I just ejected my stomach.

Oh that thing... I seriously hate that. If a guy (or even worse a boy) gets raped, who cares men love sex so he must have enjoyed it! Fuck you assholes. It is already bad that some female rape victims get shamed "because the way they dressed clearly means they were asking for it." but in the case of a man just because he is a man means he must have enjoyed it, wanted it or atleast he should have enjoyed it. AAARGH!

[DasFuchs]

She re-entered the house with a firearm and shot at her husband. I can understand the court choosing to ignore the stand your ground case. Of course, like QueenofHearts said this is more damning on Zimmerman, than it is on this case. In this case it largely sounds like justice is following its winding and convoluted course.

This

The one time that most of us have seen the Stand Your Ground law upheld through court was this case
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-01-05/news/30595165_1_face-murder-charges-killing-bus
And that was because the victim tried to avoid the situation at all costs till there was no escape left.

[N. De Plume]

Oh, and that kid who got raped by totally scored it with the hot science teacher?  So lucky.

Yeah! Totally lucky. That’s like every teen’s fantasy!

The one time that most of us have seen the Stand Your Ground law upheld through court was this case
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-01-05/news/30595165_1_face-murder-charges-killing-bus
And that was because the victim tried to avoid the situation at all costs till there was no escape left.

Like other people have said, I was under the impression that the whole point of Stand Your Ground was to make it so folks weren’t required to exhaust every avenue of escape. You know, to let the folks “stand their ground.”

In any case, if she did need to get her cell phone, then she needed to go back inside to get it. And if she truly feared for her life, it makes sense that she would at least want to be armed “just in case.” So that she went back inside with a gun doesn’t seem to me to really say anything about her guilt or innocence.