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Community => Politics and Government => Topic started by: wrightway on May 22, 2013, 06:47:19 pm

Title: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: wrightway on May 22, 2013, 06:47:19 pm
A young woman was charged with assault of a minor two days after she turned 18. The minor is her 15 year old girlfriend. I take it Florida doesn't have Romeo and Juliet laws?

https://www.allout.org/en/actions/kate?utm_source=platform&utm_medium=email&utm_content=english&utm_campaign=kate&t=dXNlcmlkPTk3OTA3OTEsZW1haWxpZD0yMTkzNQ==
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: kefkaownsall on May 22, 2013, 07:15:28 pm
In Texas they have the laws for straight people
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: syaoranvee on May 23, 2013, 12:18:14 am
Actually we do. (http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/region_indian_river_county/sebastian/floridas-romeo-and-juliet-law-could-be-used-in-kaitlyn-hunt-case-removes-sex-offender-status)
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: ironbite on May 23, 2013, 01:29:15 am
Oh it's not just assault.  It's also sexual assault of a minor.  They started dating when they she was 17 and her girlfriend's parents decided she wouldn't be gay so waited till she turned 18 to call the cops on her.

Ironbite-lovely people ain't they?
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: kefkaownsall on May 23, 2013, 01:29:57 am
hope that romeo law kicks in :(
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: Canadian Mojo on May 23, 2013, 09:24:12 am
hope that romeo law kicks in :(

I hope the whole thing gets thrown right out on its ear by the judge because because the relationship started when she was legal and this is malicious prosecution brought on by the parents.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: wrightway on May 23, 2013, 09:35:01 am
The parents need a swift kick in the ass. Hopefully their daughter will run off as fast as she can the day she turns 18.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: Art Vandelay on May 23, 2013, 09:39:38 am
hope that romeo law kicks in :(

I hope the whole thing gets thrown right out on its ear by the judge because because the relationship started when she was legal and this is malicious prosecution brought on by the parents.

Malicious prosecution is the American way.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: mellenORL on May 23, 2013, 03:07:04 pm
I am so full of rage right now.....
Signed the petition. Need to go break something.
Title: Re: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: ThunderWulf on May 23, 2013, 03:44:49 pm
Oh it's not just assault.  It's also sexual assault of a minor.  They started dating when they she was 17 and her girlfriend's parents decided she wouldn't be gay so waited till she turned 18 to call the cops on her.

Ironbite-lovely people ain't they?

Woooooow... fuck those two asshats.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: Distind on May 23, 2013, 03:47:02 pm
18 is a very important time to grasp the laws around sex crimes, because it's entirely legal for someone's guardian to use the cops to fuck you if you fuck their ward.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: doomcup on May 23, 2013, 03:49:08 pm
I too have signed the petition. This is terrible, and the parents should be ashamed of themselves.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: Vypernight on May 23, 2013, 03:56:32 pm
How can they prove it was sexual assault.  Maybe it was just teenage dating minus the sex.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: mellenORL on May 23, 2013, 04:06:09 pm
I too want to know how they could prove sexual contact physically. It will just be witness (the younger girl's parents) complaints.

That's a really pretty area of east coast FL there, and it makes me sick to see this cute, wholesome looking young lady get the shaft from a set of (I can't think of a suitable slur) "parents". The article mentions a possible plea bargain, along with the probable citation of the Romeo & Juliet law. Fuck No to plea bargaining. Drop all charges against Kait, and charge those parents with false report. And I hope Kait and her family sue the other girl's folks for a symbolic amount just to publicly out them in the media...and give the court's award to HRC.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: Dynamic Dragon on May 23, 2013, 04:10:24 pm
Only in Florida...
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: Vypernight on May 23, 2013, 04:53:12 pm
Only in Florida...

Yeah, no kidding.  In the city where I used to live, they'll waste taxpayers' money on laws to keep two houses that look the same from being built next to each other, but god(any god) forbid money goes to education (a current bill is trying to block a tax boost to aid education).

Also don't forget last November's, "Religious Freedom" bill.  Luckily, it got crushed.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: kefkaownsall on May 23, 2013, 05:51:15 pm
also she was 2 days over 18.  Maybe they didn't have sex after she turned
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: MadCatTLX on May 23, 2013, 07:28:55 pm
I too want to know how they could prove sexual contact physically. It will just be witness (the younger girl's parents) complaints.

I'd like to know what their proof is other than assumptions. Last I checked, assumptions aren't admissible in court. Somehow I doubt they watched their daughter screwing, much less recorded it for court evidence. If they did, then I think there might be some bigger issues here.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: Sleepy on May 23, 2013, 08:01:07 pm
Yeeeeah, at this point it sounds like it'll boil down to a he said/she said argument. Which is nonsense, and should be thrown out.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: Ironchew on May 23, 2013, 08:19:46 pm
Yet another entry in the sex offender registry...

This is why I can't stand all the whargarrbl in threads even starting to touch on sex offenders. It's just too easy for propagandists to play to people's fears, and overzealous parents paint all sex offenders with the same brush. A sane reevaluation of our sex offender laws is political suicide and it's too easy to stir up the whargarrbl, so I don't expect them to get more specific anytime soon.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: Distind on June 06, 2013, 01:17:28 pm
So here's something special. Every redeeming feature of this little story was a fabrication!

She wasn't 17 when the relationship started. The parents didn't wait till she was 18 then and then call the cops, they called the moment they found out an 18 year old was diddling their 14 year old.

http://supporthonesty.net/

Oh, and they played it all up as bigotry against gays rather than simply being creepy as hell.

But hey, we all noticed this a while ago, and I totally didn't find this out from a revised Cracked article. So no biggie.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: wrightway on June 06, 2013, 02:59:20 pm
...

....

.....

O_O I am now completely for letting her rot.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: ironbite on June 06, 2013, 03:21:04 pm
Huh....weird.

Ironbite-weird that this didn't show up initially.  Weird eh?
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: Askold on June 06, 2013, 03:50:37 pm
When the news heard the original version of the story it was quite believable (some homophobic parents are getting in the way of young love with their dickish behaviour? I can see a movie being made from this.) and I suppose no one bothered to check up on the facts because it already made a pretty good story.

And yes, if this version is true then she deserves to serve her time in jail.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: Vypernight on June 06, 2013, 04:15:14 pm
Is this version confirmed to be true?  If so, Hunt definitely deserves to be in jail, regardless of her orientation.  Dating is one thing, but sex with a 14 year old is definitely a crime, and fabricating the facts to make it look like an anti-gay attack makes it worse.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: Meshakhad on June 06, 2013, 04:57:15 pm
OK, let 'er rot.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: Itachirumon on June 06, 2013, 09:21:34 pm
Wait, so this is confirmed that she actually 'is' a sleeze? I thought the cracked article that mentioned it was just succumbing to bad propaganda. Well now I'm pissed off.

....Can I reject this reality and substitute my own where she actually isn't a scuzzbucket?
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: chitoryu12 on June 07, 2013, 06:53:13 pm
I think an important question should be asked here, however:

At what age is it okay for a girl to become sexually active?
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: QueenofHearts on June 07, 2013, 07:41:58 pm
I think an important question should be asked here, however:

At what age is it okay for a girl to become sexually active?

The same age it is for a boy to become sexually active...
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: chitoryu12 on June 07, 2013, 07:46:51 pm
I think an important question should be asked here, however:

At what age is it okay for a girl to become sexually active?

The same age it is for a boy to become sexually active...

So what's that age?
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: QueenofHearts on June 07, 2013, 08:07:53 pm
I think an important question should be asked here, however:

At what age is it okay for a girl to become sexually active?

The same age it is for a boy to become sexually active...

So what's that age?

I see what you're trying to get me to do, and I'm not biting. You want me to take a hard line stance and be overly specific so that you can easily push one way or the other when I say "the right age is 16" you can say "what about someone who is 15 and 11 months?" Fact is, there is no test that can tell us "oh, this individual who happens to be 15 is mature enough to handle sex, but this 17 year old individual isn't." Therefore, we have to make arbitrary lines in the sand based on age, as we do with porn, tobacco, alcohol, and driving and hope that our collective guess is more right than wrong.

In this instance, I don't care about Distind's recent developments. She was 18 and she had sex with a 14 year old which is against the law. She should be charged because that is the law. As should I if I'm caught drunk 2 days before my 21st birthday. It is arbitrary, but in these instances arbitrary is the best we can do.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: Witchyjoshy on June 07, 2013, 08:18:39 pm
You saw what he was... trying to do?

I may not always agree with chit or how he argues but that seemed a little harsh in response to a question of clarification.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: QueenofHearts on June 07, 2013, 08:20:34 pm
You saw what he was... trying to do?

I may not always agree with chit or how he argues but that seemed a little harsh in response to a question of clarification.

This is the what numbered time that he has questioned age of consent laws...
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: chitoryu12 on June 07, 2013, 09:43:52 pm
Second time. Don't question the history of someone with memory.

My question was posed because the entire thread went from "The parents are gay bigots who are abusing their daughter by trying to get her girlfriend arrested with the age difference" to "Rot in hell you whore cumbucket" because it turns out that she began dating the girl after she was an adult. And I wish I could say that my fake quote there was an exaggeration, but it really isn't.

I fail to see how the situation suddenly changes so dramatically that a sympathetic person suddenly becomes a rotten criminal who deserves to be imprisoned because of a few months of difference in the timing of the events. Or how someone who has no problem with a girl dating another one 4 years her junior suddenly has a problem with it as soon as it turns out that they DIDN'T start dating when both were underage, but rather....a few months after the elder turned 18.

So my question is.....how do you guys not get whiplash?
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: ironbite on June 07, 2013, 09:49:21 pm
AGAIN!  I question the validity of this information as well as the timing in which it was dropped.  Shouldn't this have come out at the beginning rather then now in what seems to be a form of mudslinging against the girl?

Also, while I hesitate to throw in my hat here, I find it perplexing that 18 is suddenly a magic number in which a whole host of things become legal to people.  Also, the timeline presented here indicates the girl's SO RAN AWAY FROM HOME! to be with the girl.  Does that like she had a stable homelife to anyone?  No it doesn't.  This is so bizarre to me that I find myself questioning everything.

Ironbite-anyone got another site that backs up this first one?
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: Sigmaleph on June 07, 2013, 10:09:32 pm
The first information we had was that they started dating when they were 15 and 17. It was later revealed that it was 14 and 18. That's going from an age difference of a bit over 2 years (in the terms it was being presented, that's at least what it seemed like to me) to almost 4 years. That could be a factor.

The fact that a decent part of the story was a lie and people felt manipulated would also make the person doing it less sympathetic.

For what it's worth, I have no strong opinions one way or the other, since the most relevant factor has to do with the ability of the younger girl to deal with a sexual relationship, and I have little way of knowing that. The parents seem to think she wasn't mature enough for that relationship, and they would know better than I do, but then again overprotective parents are not a rare beast. They might be biased by the fact that the relationship is same-sex, but also maybe not (what is the prior probability that a couple, old enough to have a teenage daughter, living in Florida, could have some manner of homophobic bias? It's not negligible, but not guaranteed either).


Tl;DR: Age of consent has complicated borderline problems and judging an event by small amounts of partisan information is error prone. No surprises there.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: chitoryu12 on June 07, 2013, 10:28:24 pm
But who was lying?

Did the girl herself lie about the age at which both girls started dating? Did she start the "Free Me" campaign? I find that a little hard to believe, since supporthonesty.net plainly says that the girl was honest in her statements to the police. In fact, said site also says that Kaitlyn's supporters were the ones who may have spread misconceptions (if accidentally).

If Kaitlyn Hunt was honest with the police and her misinformed supporters are the ones spreading misinformation, then why the sudden venom toward her? This thread is not a case of "Well, the law is the law. Even if I disagree with it, she did something illegal." This is a case of "We were wrong about the age by a few months? FUCK YOU KAITLYN YOU SCUZZBUCKET! ROT IN JAIL!"

It's apparent by the initial posts in the thread that some of those who made such a turnaround don't actually have an objective problem with underage teenage girls having a sexual relationship. The questions about Romeo & Juliet laws, for instance. So why did the tone of the thread suddenly switch to one that you would use for a sexual predator? Or claims that Kaitlyn lied about her case for sympathy? Some examples:

Quote
Wait, so this is confirmed that she actually 'is' a sleeze? I thought the cracked article that mentioned it was just succumbing to bad propaganda. Well now I'm pissed off.

....Can I reject this reality and substitute my own where she actually isn't a scuzzbucket?

Quote
Is this version confirmed to be true?  If so, Hunt definitely deserves to be in jail, regardless of her orientation.  Dating is one thing, but sex with a 14 year old is definitely a crime, and fabricating the facts to make it look like an anti-gay attack makes it worse.

Quote
...

....

.....

O_O I am now completely for letting her rot.

These are not the responses of people who are confused by the misinformation, but are merely rescinding their viewpoints because they think that the law is the law. These are the responses of people who believe that the girl in question willfully mislead others and is, in fact, a sexual predator who deserves to be jailed. When mere moments ago, they were perfectly okay with the relationship as long as an arbitrary barrier had not been crossed.

I'm not here to question the validity of the arrest or age of consent laws. I'm here to question the people who suddenly made such a gigantic shift in opinion and are now condemning a person that they once supported based on finding out that they were a few months off on her age.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: Witchyjoshy on June 07, 2013, 10:34:31 pm
...To be honest, Chit and Ironbite have a point here.

As far as I'm concerned, both sources are suspect and I'd like to see some more evidence one way or the other before I jump on either bandwagon.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: Rabbit of Caerbannog on June 07, 2013, 10:44:35 pm
I fail to see how the situation suddenly changes so dramatically that a sympathetic person suddenly becomes a rotten criminal who deserves to be imprisoned because of a few months of difference in the timing of the events.
Yeah, seriously, wth?
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: Sigmaleph on June 07, 2013, 10:52:34 pm
But who was lying?
Her parents did a fair bit of it. I don't know of any statements directly by her, so as far as I know she didn't lie. That doesn't change the feeling of being manipulated, though.

Not saying it's justified, just that it's expected.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: chitoryu12 on June 07, 2013, 10:57:10 pm
But who was lying?
Her parents did a fair bit of it. I don't know of any statements directly by her, so as far as I know she didn't lie. That doesn't change the feeling of being manipulated, though.

Not saying it's justified, just that it's expected.

Were they intentionally making false statements? "Lying" implies that they knew they were making false statements, rather than being misinformed or finding alternative meanings. The closest thing I can find from the parents is their belief that the efforts by the younger girl's parents to get their daughter arrested was motivated by homophobic bigotry, which isn't entirely out of the question in this case.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: Itachirumon on June 07, 2013, 11:29:36 pm
One thing Chit - I'm not revising my opinion that she deserves to rot or not - she doesn't, what I said was probably a little harsh - I don't want the started-at-18 thing to be true because not only does it sound like a bunch of lying after the fact, but also because it seems a bit...less defensible. And to be honest, I don't want the bastards on the right to have any ammo since...this sounds oddly like one of their "Nazis riding dinosaurs and all the horses are eating each other" scenarios.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: chitoryu12 on June 07, 2013, 11:31:18 pm
One thing Chit - I'm not revising my opinion that she deserves to rot or not - she doesn't, what I said was probably a little harsh - I don't want the started-at-18 thing to be true because not only does it sound like a bunch of lying after the fact, but also because it seems a bit...less defensible. And to be honest, I don't want the bastards on the right to have any ammo since...this sounds oddly like one of their "Nazis riding dinosaurs and all the horses are eating each other" scenarios.

What you said was IMMENSELY harsh, and a good example of why speaking from an emotional position instead of pausing to think is a horrible idea.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: Sigmaleph on June 07, 2013, 11:36:19 pm
But who was lying?
Her parents did a fair bit of it. I don't know of any statements directly by her, so as far as I know she didn't lie. That doesn't change the feeling of being manipulated, though.

Were they intentionally making false statements? "Lying" implies that they knew they were making false statements, rather than being misinformed or finding alternative meanings. The closest thing I can find from the parents is their belief that the efforts by the younger girl's parents to get their daughter arrested was motivated by homophobic bigotry, which isn't entirely out of the question in this case.

The petition (http://www.change.org/petitions/assistant-state-attorney-brian-workman-stop-the-prosecution-of-an-18-year-old-girl-in-a-same-sex-relationship) (started by her father) claims they started dating when Kate was 17 and that the other girl's parents waited until she turned 18 to press charges. The same statement is repeated here (http://www.xojane.co.uk/issues/kaitlyn-hunt). This is false and strongly implies the other family is out to get them, as opposed to simply caring for their own daughter. It is the basic lie that props up the narrative that their daughter is being persecuted because she is gay, rather than because she broke the law. It also contradicts statements elsewhere (the Free Kate facebook group, for instance), indicating that they know it to be false.

There's other stuff, like the number of times they had sex (they claim it was once, Kate admits to at least three times), or that they strongly imply that Kate didn't break the law, (whether the law is unjust is arguable. That she broke it is clear, according to the facts available). Some of it is arguable as misleading or that they simply were mistaken, but bottom line is that there's a lot of misinformation about this case and a fair amount of it is coming from the parents.

Which is frankly very understandable. It's hard not to be sympathetic to a parent trying to protect their child from going to prison, especially if they think she did nothing wrong and happens to be the target of homophobia and bad timing (I don't know if they actually believe that, but it seems possible).
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: chitoryu12 on June 07, 2013, 11:41:47 pm
Again, you're saying that they're lying. Are they intentionally spreading misinformation for sympathy, or did they begin their campaign believing misinformation that they then told to others?

I can picture the scenario very easily: Kaitlyn gets the initial warnings from her girlfriend's family, her parents question it, she bumps up the girl's age by a few months and says that they only had sex once to try and avoid getting in trouble with her parents, and then she gets arrested. The parents don't find out the details until later.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: Sigmaleph on June 07, 2013, 11:51:14 pm
The parents claim that they met their daughter's girlfriend while they were dating:
Quote
They were both students in the same high school, it was a mutual consenting relationship on both parts. This was unusual for Kate, she has always dated boys, but being the kind of mother I am, I didn’t want to make it a big deal. I talked to her about it, and figured it was just a social thing, times have changed and a lot of kids are experimenting, so I didn’t make much of it. This girl came to my home, hang out with our family before sporting events at the school, etc. The girls would hang out together at after school activities, I was there, I saw the other girls father there several times, he saw them together as well, so I assumed her family was aware of it and didn’t have any issues either.

It cannot simultaneously be true that they were aware of the relationship as it was happening and that they honestly believed their daughter was 17 when they started dating.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: ironbite on June 08, 2013, 08:55:45 am
...wait back the train up a bit.  She's bisexual not full on lesbian?

Ironbite-it changes nothing but yeah...I thought she was full on gay
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: wrightway on June 08, 2013, 03:46:42 pm
I'll admit, my stance changed when it went from looking like a two year age difference to a four year one where it looked like the family was lying.
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: Stormwarden on June 09, 2013, 12:35:18 am
And this is one reason it's better to wait and see when all the facts are out. It's very seldom as cut and dry as the players in any drama make it out to be (the one useful lesson one can learn from soap operas).
Title: Re: Girl charged 2 days after she turned 18 for assault of a minor
Post by: chitoryu12 on June 09, 2013, 12:44:28 am
And this is one reason it's better to wait and see when all the facts are out. It's very seldom as cut and dry as the players in any drama make it out to be (the one useful lesson one can learn from soap operas).

If this was a soap opera, Kaitlyn Hunt would actually be her girlfriend's mother's long-lost sister.

And then she'd get shot in the face and buried, but it turns out it was a fake body in the casket and comes back after having aged 20 years in a 1 year time span.