Author Topic: Utah and many other states to resurrect the firing squad  (Read 4484 times)

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Offline mellenORL

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Re: Utah and many other states to resurrect the firing squad
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2015, 10:01:34 am »
Captive bolt pistol. Less gruesome than a guillotine. Have the convict blindfolded. Still creepy as fuck all. I'm ambivalent about the death penalty. Ideally, only in extremely heinous cases with inarguable proof of guilt would a convict be executed.

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« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 10:06:52 am by mellenORL »
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Utah and many other states to resurrect the firing squad
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2015, 10:03:21 am »
Captive bolt pistol. Less gruesome than a guillotine. Have the convict blindfolded. Still creepy as fuck all. I'm ambivalent about the death penalty. Ideally, only in extremely heinous cases with inarguable proof of guilt would a convict be executed.

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Offline SkyTrekTower

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Re: Utah and many other states to resurrect the firing squad
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2015, 10:11:48 am »
We could go Singapore's route where murder carries a mandatory death sentence.  This results in a murder rate of almost zero(and therefore executions are rare), so in the end, its almost win-win. 

Or we could take a page from Scandinavian countries and actually rehabilitate our prisoners.

Offline Askold

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Re: Utah and many other states to resurrect the firing squad
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2015, 10:41:40 am »
We could go Singapore's route where murder carries a mandatory death sentence.  This results in a murder rate of almost zero(and therefore executions are rare), so in the end, its almost win-win. 
Or it would mean that there are a lot more innocent people getting executed instead of the real murderer AND murderers will make sure to kill all witnesses and will resist the police to death since getting arrested will mean certain as well, so there is no reason for them to surrender.

Or we could take a page from Scandinavian countries and actually rehabilitate our prisoners.

I for one support that (although we have morons complaining how the system cuddles the prisoners by treating them like human beings.)
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Utah and many other states to resurrect the firing squad
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2015, 10:45:35 am »
We could go Singapore's route where murder carries a mandatory death sentence.  This results in a murder rate of almost zero(and therefore executions are rare), so in the end, its almost win-win. 
Or it would mean that there are a lot more innocent people getting executed instead of the real murderer AND murderers will make sure to kill all witnesses and will resist the police to death since getting arrested will mean certain as well, so there is no reason for them to surrender.

How often does either scenario happen?  I think that's something important to note.

Or we could take a page from Scandinavian countries and actually rehabilitate our prisoners.

I for one support that (although we have morons complaining how the system cuddles the prisoners by treating them like human beings.)

Some criminals just can't be rehabilitated.  Take Peter Woodcock, for example.

Offline Ironchew

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Re: Utah and many other states to resurrect the firing squad
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2015, 01:29:36 pm »
Some criminals just can't be rehabilitated.

You can justify anything with that faulty reasoning. Look at the statistics before you dismiss rehabilitation, especially since you support such a gruesome alternative.
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Offline Askold

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Re: Utah and many other states to resurrect the firing squad
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2015, 02:57:36 pm »
We could go Singapore's route where murder carries a mandatory death sentence.  This results in a murder rate of almost zero(and therefore executions are rare), so in the end, its almost win-win. 
Or it would mean that there are a lot more innocent people getting executed instead of the real murderer AND murderers will make sure to kill all witnesses and will resist the police to death since getting arrested will mean certain as well, so there is no reason for them to surrender.

How often does either scenario happen?  I think that's something important to note.

The fact that death penalty still needs to be used in the countries that have death penalty means that it is not a complete deterrent. Singapore may be an exception, but generally people will still commit crimes that carry death penalty.

Or we could take a page from Scandinavian countries and actually rehabilitate our prisoners.

I for one support that (although we have morons complaining how the system cuddles the prisoners by treating them like human beings.)

Some criminals just can't be rehabilitated.  Take Peter Woodcock, for example.

But that still does not mean that we should stop treating them like human beings. In an ideal situation the justice system will try to rehabilitate the convicted criminals and IF after their sentence is up they are still deemed to be unable to be returned to society they will be kept detained further. Usually this is done to those who are so insane or simply so unstable that they need to be kept in an insane asylum.

But simply locking someone into a tower and throwing away the key will take away their chance to make amends and usually just makes them worse. Keeping them detained (despite what some people believe, having your freedom taken away IS a punishment to most people) and re-educating them or offering psychiatric treatment will perhaps let them learn the error of their ways AND make it less likely for them to commit more crimes if/when they are released.

There was actually a study about Finnish convicts who had been serving life sentence. Which in Finland is usually 12-14 years before being pardoned. (Before the pardon could only come from the president, now there is an actual board with professionals who will judge wether or not the person can be released.)

There is like 22% of them who will commit more crimes, compared to the average of 54,7% of other convicted criminals (this includes all jail sentences, so many are quite short and for minor crimes.) who will commit more crimes. Clearly the system is not perfect but the life sentence is given to the worst kinds of criminals and even then most of them become law abiding citizens.

Source: http://www.rikosseuraamus.fi/material/attachments/rise/julkaisut-monisteetjaraportit/c93POV0xz/2014-5_ELINKAUTISVANKIEN_UUSINTARIKOLLISUUDESTA.pdf (Mostly in Finnish but the abstract on the third page is in English.)

The point that I am trying to make with this is that sometimes rehabilitation works and it may even work for murderers (the amount of murderers is quite high among those that serve life sentence in Finland) AND if we later find out that they were innocent we can at least apologize and their life will go on. (Though I also see that Finland does have a problem with repeat offenders in the less serious crimes. But there is a difference between long sentence and inhuman treatment.)
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
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Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Ironchew

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Re: Utah and many other states to resurrect the firing squad
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2015, 03:11:34 pm »
It's also worth noting that ex-convicts tend to commit more crimes because, at least in the United States, hardly anyone wants to hire ex-convicts. When you aren't given a chance to piece your life back together, you commit more crimes out of desperation.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Utah and many other states to resurrect the firing squad
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2015, 04:24:13 pm »
Maybe I should have been clearer.  I have no problem with rehabilitating criminals, or treating them humanely.  But in cases of criminals who can't be fixed, I don't think they should be released into society.  Especially not murderers.

Offline Cerim Treascair

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Re: Utah and many other states to resurrect the firing squad
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2015, 10:33:08 pm »
Maybe I should have been clearer.  I have no problem with rehabilitating criminals, or treating them humanely.  But in cases of criminals who can't be fixed, I don't think they should be released into society.  Especially not murderers.

This strikes close to home for me.  My uncle was murdered when I was 7.  Premeditated and all.  What'd his killer get? 16 years.  He's out walking around free after murdering my uncle and dumping his body into a ditch.

Oh yeah.  Vengeance is a delight, believe you fuckin' me.  I'd be more than happy to be the one to put the bullet in his head personally.
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Offline Sylvana

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Re: Utah and many other states to resurrect the firing squad
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2015, 01:13:22 am »
Oh yeah.  Vengeance is a delight, believe you fuckin' me.  I'd be more than happy to be the one to put the bullet in his head personally.

This really is the main reason for the death penalty. It isn't about justice, or and eye for an eye, its all about vengeance for the family of the victims.

Here I South Africa we have a depressingly high prison population, but they have been introducing new means of rehabilitation. There is this thing called victim offender counseling where they help the convicts to come to terms with their crime, as well as helping to the victims of their crime to gain closure. It is a good program, you would be surprised how many criminals dont fully comprehend their own actions. The counseling helps them to understand, and take ownership of their actions, which is a huge step towards proper rehabilitation.

Another thing is education in prisons. I doubt this is as much of a problem in other countries, but here many prisoners are completely illiterate. They become criminals because to them, that is the only "job" they could find, and for them crime is a job, its how they put food on the table for their families. In prison they are taught practical skills like woodworking and such, as well as being able to read and write. It is quite amazing when these adults manage to actually read and write their own name for the first time and actually understand what all the scribbles on the paper mean.

Offline Askold

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Re: Utah and many other states to resurrect the firing squad
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2015, 01:20:19 am »
Maybe I should have been clearer.  I have no problem with rehabilitating criminals, or treating them humanely.  But in cases of criminals who can't be fixed, I don't think they should be released into society.  Especially not murderers.

This strikes close to home for me.  My uncle was murdered when I was 7.  Premeditated and all.  What'd his killer get? 16 years.  He's out walking around free after murdering my uncle and dumping his body into a ditch.

Oh yeah.  Vengeance is a delight, believe you fuckin' me.  I'd be more than happy to be the one to put the bullet in his head personally.

He has spent 16 years in jail so he already got punished severely. As far as society is concerned he has paid for his crime and unless there is a reason to detain him for mental causes (like knowing that he has a "stabbing compulsion" and will stab the first person he can or something) he should be freed after his sentence.

Revenge is still not justice.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Cerim Treascair

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Re: Utah and many other states to resurrect the firing squad
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2015, 02:01:04 am »
Maybe I should have been clearer.  I have no problem with rehabilitating criminals, or treating them humanely.  But in cases of criminals who can't be fixed, I don't think they should be released into society.  Especially not murderers.

This strikes close to home for me.  My uncle was murdered when I was 7.  Premeditated and all.  What'd his killer get? 16 years.  He's out walking around free after murdering my uncle and dumping his body into a ditch.

Oh yeah.  Vengeance is a delight, believe you fuckin' me.  I'd be more than happy to be the one to put the bullet in his head personally.

He has spent 16 years in jail so he already got punished severely. As far as society is concerned he has paid for his crime and unless there is a reason to detain him for mental causes (like knowing that he has a "stabbing compulsion" and will stab the first person he can or something) he should be freed after his sentence.

Revenge is still not justice.

No, it's not, that's true.

Doesn't mean it still wouldn't be the ultimate catharsis for me, my aunt and my cousins.
There is light and darkness in the world, to be sure.  However, there's no harm to be had in walking in the shade or shadows.

Formerly Priestling

"I don't give a fuck about race...I'm white, I'm American, but that shit don't matter.  I'm human."