Author Topic: Worst of Social Justice  (Read 1550246 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline TheUnknown

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1031
  • Gender: Female
Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #4095 on: July 08, 2014, 06:43:17 am »
Demiromantic means that you can only be romantic towards people you know really well.  ... *shrug*
So... like anyone ever?

Well, with demisexuality, you'd be met with "No, not like everyone else because we are physically incapable of feeling any sexual attraction towards people we don't have a strong connection to" (basically, it comes off sounding like "we're special because we can't get it up to random people/porn and we don't have any attraction towards people we see on the street").

So, if you say "just like everyone else", you'll be accused of "mixing up sexual feelings and romantic feelings".  I don't know how to apply that to demiromantics.  Maybe they can't develop relationships through blind dates?

Offline RavynousHunter

  • Master Thief
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8108
  • Gender: Male
  • A man of no consequence.
    • My Twitter
Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #4096 on: July 08, 2014, 07:49:32 am »
To be perfectly honest, though, a blind date is a terrible way to start a relationship.
Quote from: Bra'tac
Life for the sake of life means nothing.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8423
  • Gender: Male
  • Tougher than diamonds, stronger than steel
Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #4097 on: July 08, 2014, 08:22:57 am »
I've started to grow tired of the headcanon thing. It's already a bit iffy to try and declare an author's interpretation of their own work invalid because you don't want to believe it, but fans (surprise surprise, especially the ones on Tumblr) are starting to try and turn their headcanon into actual canon in their own view. They make their own interpretation, declare it official as far as they're concerned, and become upset when it's not true.

Take the Destiel fandom. Shipping Dean Winchester and Castiel is okay on its own, but a lot of Destiel shippers have been crying foul and claiming that the show is "queer baiting" for intentionally incorporating homoerotic subtext recently and not acting on it.

Guys, they're making fun of you. The writers are totally aware of the Destiel ship and how nutty its fanbase is, and are intentionally throwing in references to the ship to screw with the shippers. But the headcanon-loving fans don't get it because in their minds, Dean and Castiel are canonically in love and the writers are afraid to incorporate homosexual or bisexual protagonists.

It gets even worse when you come across essays dedicated to saying "all of your headcanons are valid because fiction isn't real, so you can't argue against something because it goes against the rules, because there are no rules".  I've seen exactly this done in response to people trying to justify problematic elements in fiction using canon, so they're basically the opposite of the extreme: "Oh, you say Zelda can't be the hero ever because canon says she always has to be the damsel?  Well, canon doesn't matter at all, at any point, for anything, so fuck you, purist!"  And for those curious, yes, it was somebody claiming that Zelda canon dictates that Zelda can never be the hero that set off this anti-canon rant.

Yeah, I'm against people using canon to justify sexism or whatever, but I strongly disagree with "canon isn't real so it's impossible to go against it".
I'm guessing these idiots are basing that around a misinterpretation of postmodernism.

Offline Sigmaleph

  • Ungodlike
  • Administrator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3615
    • sigmaleph on tumblr
Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #4098 on: July 08, 2014, 03:45:10 pm »
I have some safe, good outlets for my odd impulses, and I can safely say Joff is definitely a sexual sadist. He looked like he was LOVING that whore vs. whore combat.

He's definitely a sadist, though it's debatable whether it's sexual. He never seemed particular interested in sex or physically pleasuring himself, just causing pain to others. Calling that "asexual", however, feels a bit like calling otherwise straight dudes who rape other dudes in prison "bisexual".

Quote
Definitely aromantic - he really could not care less for romance.

Eh, he's a sadistic psychopath. A lack of romance is just the tip of the iceberg.

In the books, Joffrey is 12-13 for most of the time we see him. Lack of sexual interest in a kid only just entering puberty is not unusual.

The show complicates this by making Joffrey older. I don't remember how older, though; I thought it was around two or three years, but Game of Thrones Wiki says he's 19 by Season 4. Confusing.
Σא

Offline Cerim Treascair

  • My Love Is Lunar
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3092
  • Gender: Male
  • Get me my arbalest... explosive bolts, please.
Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #4099 on: July 08, 2014, 05:08:02 pm »
I've started to grow tired of the headcanon thing. It's already a bit iffy to try and declare an author's interpretation of their own work invalid because you don't want to believe it, but fans (surprise surprise, especially the ones on Tumblr) are starting to try and turn their headcanon into actual canon in their own view. They make their own interpretation, declare it official as far as they're concerned, and become upset when it's not true.

Take the Destiel fandom. Shipping Dean Winchester and Castiel is okay on its own, but a lot of Destiel shippers have been crying foul and claiming that the show is "queer baiting" for intentionally incorporating homoerotic subtext recently and not acting on it.

Guys, they're making fun of you. The writers are totally aware of the Destiel ship and how nutty its fanbase is, and are intentionally throwing in references to the ship to screw with the shippers. But the headcanon-loving fans don't get it because in their minds, Dean and Castiel are canonically in love and the writers are afraid to incorporate homosexual or bisexual protagonists.

It gets even worse when you come across essays dedicated to saying "all of your headcanons are valid because fiction isn't real, so you can't argue against something because it goes against the rules, because there are no rules".  I've seen exactly this done in response to people trying to justify problematic elements in fiction using canon, so they're basically the opposite of the extreme: "Oh, you say Zelda can't be the hero ever because canon says she always has to be the damsel?  Well, canon doesn't matter at all, at any point, for anything, so fuck you, purist!"  And for those curious, yes, it was somebody claiming that Zelda canon dictates that Zelda can never be the hero that set off this anti-canon rant.

Yeah, I'm against people using canon to justify sexism or whatever, but I strongly disagree with "canon isn't real so it's impossible to go against it".
I'm guessing these idiots are basing that around a misinterpretation of postmodernism.

I'm reminded of the (very serious) literary argument that the reader's interpretation of a work trumps that of authorial intent.  If the author says "the curtains were blue", and a reader interprets that as "The curtains were blue due to how Mrs. Jones always felt down and depressed, as if a stiff breeze could blow her aside as well", the reader is correct.

I still call bullshit on it.
There is light and darkness in the world, to be sure.  However, there's no harm to be had in walking in the shade or shadows.

Formerly Priestling

"I don't give a fuck about race...I'm white, I'm American, but that shit don't matter.  I'm human."

Offline Ironchew

  • Official Edgelord
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1888
  • Gender: Male
  • The calm, intellectual Trotsky-like Trotskyist
Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #4100 on: July 08, 2014, 05:50:34 pm »
I've started to grow tired of the headcanon thing. It's already a bit iffy to try and declare an author's interpretation of their own work invalid because you don't want to believe it, but fans (surprise surprise, especially the ones on Tumblr) are starting to try and turn their headcanon into actual canon in their own view. They make their own interpretation, declare it official as far as they're concerned, and become upset when it's not true.

Take the Destiel fandom. Shipping Dean Winchester and Castiel is okay on its own, but a lot of Destiel shippers have been crying foul and claiming that the show is "queer baiting" for intentionally incorporating homoerotic subtext recently and not acting on it.

Guys, they're making fun of you. The writers are totally aware of the Destiel ship and how nutty its fanbase is, and are intentionally throwing in references to the ship to screw with the shippers. But the headcanon-loving fans don't get it because in their minds, Dean and Castiel are canonically in love and the writers are afraid to incorporate homosexual or bisexual protagonists.

It gets even worse when you come across essays dedicated to saying "all of your headcanons are valid because fiction isn't real, so you can't argue against something because it goes against the rules, because there are no rules".  I've seen exactly this done in response to people trying to justify problematic elements in fiction using canon, so they're basically the opposite of the extreme: "Oh, you say Zelda can't be the hero ever because canon says she always has to be the damsel?  Well, canon doesn't matter at all, at any point, for anything, so fuck you, purist!"  And for those curious, yes, it was somebody claiming that Zelda canon dictates that Zelda can never be the hero that set off this anti-canon rant.

Yeah, I'm against people using canon to justify sexism or whatever, but I strongly disagree with "canon isn't real so it's impossible to go against it".
I'm guessing these idiots are basing that around a misinterpretation of postmodernism.

I'm reminded of the (very serious) literary argument that the reader's interpretation of a work trumps that of authorial intent.  If the author says "the curtains were blue", and a reader interprets that as "The curtains were blue due to how Mrs. Jones always felt down and depressed, as if a stiff breeze could blow her aside as well", the reader is correct.

I still call bullshit on it.

The death of the author is the only coherent response to the problem of the original authors either being completely unaccounted for (e.g. the Bible), dead, or otherwise changing their minds in contradictory ways (did Han shoot first? If we were to completely ignore Star Wars as a work and unquestioningly follow Lucas, we'll get two different answers). All it means is that the work itself is objectively present and it can be examined on its own terms.

This paradigm can be abused, sure, but there are fundamental issues in literary analysis that would be unsolvable without it.
Consumption is not a politically combative act — refraining from consumption even less so.

Offline Sigmaleph

  • Ungodlike
  • Administrator
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 3615
    • sigmaleph on tumblr
Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #4101 on: July 08, 2014, 06:25:55 pm »
I've started to grow tired of the headcanon thing. It's already a bit iffy to try and declare an author's interpretation of their own work invalid because you don't want to believe it, but fans (surprise surprise, especially the ones on Tumblr) are starting to try and turn their headcanon into actual canon in their own view. They make their own interpretation, declare it official as far as they're concerned, and become upset when it's not true.

Take the Destiel fandom. Shipping Dean Winchester and Castiel is okay on its own, but a lot of Destiel shippers have been crying foul and claiming that the show is "queer baiting" for intentionally incorporating homoerotic subtext recently and not acting on it.

Guys, they're making fun of you. The writers are totally aware of the Destiel ship and how nutty its fanbase is, and are intentionally throwing in references to the ship to screw with the shippers. But the headcanon-loving fans don't get it because in their minds, Dean and Castiel are canonically in love and the writers are afraid to incorporate homosexual or bisexual protagonists.

It gets even worse when you come across essays dedicated to saying "all of your headcanons are valid because fiction isn't real, so you can't argue against something because it goes against the rules, because there are no rules".  I've seen exactly this done in response to people trying to justify problematic elements in fiction using canon, so they're basically the opposite of the extreme: "Oh, you say Zelda can't be the hero ever because canon says she always has to be the damsel?  Well, canon doesn't matter at all, at any point, for anything, so fuck you, purist!"  And for those curious, yes, it was somebody claiming that Zelda canon dictates that Zelda can never be the hero that set off this anti-canon rant.

Yeah, I'm against people using canon to justify sexism or whatever, but I strongly disagree with "canon isn't real so it's impossible to go against it".
I'm guessing these idiots are basing that around a misinterpretation of postmodernism.

I'm reminded of the (very serious) literary argument that the reader's interpretation of a work trumps that of authorial intent.  If the author says "the curtains were blue", and a reader interprets that as "The curtains were blue due to how Mrs. Jones always felt down and depressed, as if a stiff breeze could blow her aside as well", the reader is correct.

I still call bullshit on it.

I think it's a mistake to talk about "correct" or "incorrect". It's fiction. There's no fact of the matter here, there's no outside world where either the curtains are blue or they aren't. The only "world" is the one each reader builds in their head out of their interpretation of words on paper. If the reader interprets "the curtains were blue" as a metaphor for depression, then in the world they built in their head the blue curtains are a metaphor for depression. Meanwhile, in the world the writer intended to create, the curtains are blue because that's their colour. Neither of those worlds is true in any meaningful sense; the curtains don't exist.

If the reader thinks "the author meant that the curtains were blue as a metaphor for depression", then yes, you can speak about correctness or incorrectness, because what the author meant is a fact about the world with a single right answer. But if the reader isn't trying to build the author's world, there's no sense in which it's wrong to differ from the author's interpretation.

There are many reasons why one might want to interpret the world the same as the author. If I want to talk to other readers, or predict what will happen later in the book, then it makes sense to act as if there was a "real" world which is the author is talking about. But if I don't care about that, well, there's no right and wrong in how you read fiction. The world you build in your head is the world you build in your head, it doesn't have to be compared to anything else.
Σא

Offline chitoryu12

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 4009
  • Gender: Male
  • Tax-Payer Rhino
Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #4102 on: July 08, 2014, 09:53:53 pm »
They made fun of the shippers in Sherlock too. Yet people claimed it was a nod to them

Sherlock season 3 was basically one giant Tumblr reference. Most of it done in at least a semi-mocking manner, but the Johnlock shipping dates back to literally the first time the books achieved popularity in the 19th century. It's just much easier to make fun of it now.
Still can't think of a signature a year later.

Offline The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist

  • The Very Punny Punisher and Owner of the Most Glorious Chest
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 4316
  • Gender: Female
  • And I fired two warning shots... into his head.
    • Tumblr Image Blog
Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #4103 on: July 09, 2014, 12:05:13 am »
I've started to grow tired of the headcanon thing. It's already a bit iffy to try and declare an author's interpretation of their own work invalid because you don't want to believe it, but fans (surprise surprise, especially the ones on Tumblr) are starting to try and turn their headcanon into actual canon in their own view. They make their own interpretation, declare it official as far as they're concerned, and become upset when it's not true.

Take the Destiel fandom. Shipping Dean Winchester and Castiel is okay on its own, but a lot of Destiel shippers have been crying foul and claiming that the show is "queer baiting" for intentionally incorporating homoerotic subtext recently and not acting on it.

Guys, they're making fun of you. The writers are totally aware of the Destiel ship and how nutty its fanbase is, and are intentionally throwing in references to the ship to screw with the shippers. But the headcanon-loving fans don't get it because in their minds, Dean and Castiel are canonically in love and the writers are afraid to incorporate homosexual or bisexual protagonists.

It gets even worse when you come across essays dedicated to saying "all of your headcanons are valid because fiction isn't real, so you can't argue against something because it goes against the rules, because there are no rules".  I've seen exactly this done in response to people trying to justify problematic elements in fiction using canon, so they're basically the opposite of the extreme: "Oh, you say Zelda can't be the hero ever because canon says she always has to be the damsel?  Well, canon doesn't matter at all, at any point, for anything, so fuck you, purist!"  And for those curious, yes, it was somebody claiming that Zelda canon dictates that Zelda can never be the hero that set off this anti-canon rant.

Yeah, I'm against people using canon to justify sexism or whatever, but I strongly disagree with "canon isn't real so it's impossible to go against it".
I'm guessing these idiots are basing that around a misinterpretation of postmodernism.

I'm reminded of the (very serious) literary argument that the reader's interpretation of a work trumps that of authorial intent.  If the author says "the curtains were blue", and a reader interprets that as "The curtains were blue due to how Mrs. Jones always felt down and depressed, as if a stiff breeze could blow her aside as well", the reader is correct.

I still call bullshit on it.

I think it's a mistake to talk about "correct" or "incorrect". It's fiction. There's no fact of the matter here, there's no outside world where either the curtains are blue or they aren't. The only "world" is the one each reader builds in their head out of their interpretation of words on paper. If the reader interprets "the curtains were blue" as a metaphor for depression, then in the world they built in their head the blue curtains are a metaphor for depression. Meanwhile, in the world the writer intended to create, the curtains are blue because that's their colour. Neither of those worlds is true in any meaningful sense; the curtains don't exist.

If the reader thinks "the author meant that the curtains were blue as a metaphor for depression", then yes, you can speak about correctness or incorrectness, because what the author meant is a fact about the world with a single right answer. But if the reader isn't trying to build the author's world, there's no sense in which it's wrong to differ from the author's interpretation.

There are many reasons why one might want to interpret the world the same as the author. If I want to talk to other readers, or predict what will happen later in the book, then it makes sense to act as if there was a "real" world which is the author is talking about. But if I don't care about that, well, there's no right and wrong in how you read fiction. The world you build in your head is the world you build in your head, it doesn't have to be compared to anything else.

Incidentally, even the author isn't always entirely certain of the correct interpretation. It's a peculiar side effect of having your characters and story seemingly take on a life of their own as you develop them in your head.
"Je me presse de rire de tout, de peur d'être obligé d'en pleurer."

My Blog (Sometimes NSFW)

Offline Damen

  • That's COMMODORE SPLATMASTER Damen, Briber of Mods
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1800
  • Gender: Male
  • The Dark Sex God
    • John Damen's Photography
Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #4104 on: July 09, 2014, 03:37:05 pm »


"Fear my .45"

"If the liberties of the American people are ever destroyed, they will fall by the hands of the clergy" ~ Marquis De Lafayette

'Till Next Time,
~John Damen

Offline Raymond Dullaghy

  • Apprentice
  • **
  • Posts: 63
  • Gender: Male
  • God before dogma!
Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #4105 on: July 09, 2014, 03:44:50 pm »



That has so many weasel words (Is that is the right term?) that I'm not quite sure what it's supposed to mean in the first place.
I'm in science to discover and analyze God's wonderful universe, not gripe about how people don't like God.  I believe the creation/evolution debate is a waste of Christian brains (we have them, believe it or not) that could be better spent on making actual things.

Favorite philosophers (out of the ones I've personally read): Jesus, Solomon, Marcus Aurelius, Immanuel Kant

Offline Commissar Kaz

  • Tzeentchian Cultist
  • Bishop
  • ***
  • Posts: 147
  • Gender: Male
  • Just as planned!
Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #4106 on: July 09, 2014, 06:38:40 pm »




Anything for them to feel oppressed, eh? If I were part of one of those religions, I sure wouldn't wanna be associated with otherkin.

As an aside, I wonder if the person who wrote that will catch flak for implying that otherkin only identify with animals while they actually claim to be the animals in human form.

Offline Ironchew

  • Official Edgelord
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1888
  • Gender: Male
  • The calm, intellectual Trotsky-like Trotskyist
Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #4107 on: July 09, 2014, 06:54:49 pm »
Quote
And if so, isn't otherkin hate bordering on anti-theism

Anti-theist here. I am highly amused by social degenerates getting their panties in a twist over our label.
Consumption is not a politically combative act — refraining from consumption even less so.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 8423
  • Gender: Male
  • Tougher than diamonds, stronger than steel
Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #4108 on: July 10, 2014, 08:00:10 am »
Quote
And if so, isn't otherkin hate bordering on anti-theism

Anti-theist here. I am highly amused by social degenerates getting their panties in a twist over our label.
You're one to talk about "social degenerates".  Or do you not remember how you deliberately misgendered a transwoman?

Offline Ironchew

  • Official Edgelord
  • The Beast
  • *****
  • Posts: 1888
  • Gender: Male
  • The calm, intellectual Trotsky-like Trotskyist
Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #4109 on: July 10, 2014, 10:28:05 am »
Quote
And if so, isn't otherkin hate bordering on anti-theism

Anti-theist here. I am highly amused by social degenerates getting their panties in a twist over our label.
You're one to talk about "social degenerates".  Or do you not remember how you deliberately misgendered a transwoman?

It's not FQA without the high school levels of drama and the needlessly archival guilt tripping.

Stay classy, UP.
Consumption is not a politically combative act — refraining from consumption even less so.