Author Topic: Worst of Social Justice  (Read 1550542 times)

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Offline The_Queen

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7440 on: October 29, 2015, 11:03:45 pm »


Do you even know who that is? She's like the modern queen of punk rock. I was lucky enough to attend one of her shows and get one of her guitar picks. Putting anything from her in this thread speaks more about yourself than it does her.

She's also right in that the concept of "biological gender" is bullshit, ad hoc, nonsense to say that transsexuals are the not gender they identify as (which, from the context of the message, appears to be what's happening there). There is no single biological factor that is dispositive for the purposes of "gender." A lot of correlation, but nothing dispositive. Shivahn posted a great rant on the topic many years ago, addressing the issue in far more detail than I care to go into.
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Offline Kat S.

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7441 on: October 29, 2015, 11:16:38 pm »


Do you even know who that is? She's like the modern queen of punk rock. I was lucky enough to attend one of her shows and get one of her guitar picks. Putting anything from her in this thread speaks more about yourself than it does her.

She's also right in that the concept of "biological gender" is bullshit, ad hoc, nonsense to say that transsexuals are the not gender they identify as (which, from the context of the message, appears to be what's happening there). There is no single biological factor that is dispositive for the purposes of "gender." A lot of correlation, but nothing dispositive. Shivahn posted a great rant on the topic many years ago, addressing the issue in far more detail than I care to go into.

Sorry about that.  I didn't mean to offend anyone here.  I'm doing terrible on this thread so far today, so I guess I'll stop while I'm behind.

Offline guizonde

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7442 on: October 29, 2015, 11:28:47 pm »


Do you even know who that is? She's like the modern queen of punk rock. I was lucky enough to attend one of her shows and get one of her guitar picks. Putting anything from her in this thread speaks more about yourself than it does her.

She's also right in that the concept of "biological gender" is bullshit, ad hoc, nonsense to say that transsexuals are the not gender they identify as (which, from the context of the message, appears to be what's happening there). There is no single biological factor that is dispositive for the purposes of "gender." A lot of correlation, but nothing dispositive. Shivahn posted a great rant on the topic many years ago, addressing the issue in far more detail than I care to go into.

um, famous and notorious people are just regular people, so sometimes they can be wrong or say things the wrong way. i'm with the quote's sentiment, but not the way the message is written. one offhand, one ad hominem, and one returning the question does not make for good argumentation, objectively. also, since when do punks obey hierarchy?
really not trying to start a war. i thought that traditionally males were xy chromosomes and women xx. doesn't that count as "biological gender"? or is that "biological sex"? and i'm not touching the trans issue with a ten-foot pole, seeing as it's a sore spot just by looking at it for some people and i don't want to offend anyone today.
also, whether to classify trans as biological or neurological or both, i'm just plain out of my league to even attempt answering, but i thought it was a mix of both. please correct me if i'm wrong.
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Offline The_Queen

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7443 on: October 29, 2015, 11:47:34 pm »


Do you even know who that is? She's like the modern queen of punk rock. I was lucky enough to attend one of her shows and get one of her guitar picks. Putting anything from her in this thread speaks more about yourself than it does her.

She's also right in that the concept of "biological gender" is bullshit, ad hoc, nonsense to say that transsexuals are the not gender they identify as (which, from the context of the message, appears to be what's happening there). There is no single biological factor that is dispositive for the purposes of "gender." A lot of correlation, but nothing dispositive. Shivahn posted a great rant on the topic many years ago, addressing the issue in far more detail than I care to go into.

um, famous and notorious people are just regular people, so sometimes they can be wrong or say things the wrong way. i'm with the quote's sentiment, but not the way the message is written. one offhand, one ad hominem, and one returning the question does not make for good argumentation, objectively. also, since when do punks obey hierarchy?
really not trying to start a war. i thought that traditionally males were xy chromosomes and women xx. doesn't that count as "biological gender"? or is that "biological sex"? and i'm not touching the trans issue with a ten-foot pole, seeing as it's a sore spot just by looking at it for some people and i don't want to offend anyone today.
also, whether to classify trans as biological or neurological or both, i'm just plain out of my league to even attempt answering, but i thought it was a mix of both. please correct me if i'm wrong.

The problem with chromosomes is that there is great deal more variation than simply XX and XY. As a nonexhaustive list: XXYY, XXY Klinefelter syndrome, XXY non-Klinefelter syndrom, Complete Androgen insensitivity syndrom, turner syndrome, and Triple X Syndrome. All of these indicate that there is much greater diversity to chromosomes than simply XX and XY, and yet we still recognize all of these individuals as either male or female. Thus, chromosomes are not dispositive for the purpose of gender. Thus some other phenomenon in isolation or a combination of traits (which would certainly weigh in favor of recognizing transsexuals as their identified gender) must account for this definition of "biologically male/female."

ETA: I'm sorry that Laura wasn't the perfectly dainty little girl you wanted. I'm sorry that when someone tried to dictate her gender to her, she responded that he can go fuck himself and that his concept was bullshit. I'm sorry that transsexuals who are more likely to say "fuck off" to conservative trolls*--who unironically support Donald Fucking Trump--on twitter deserve the label SJW. I'm sorry that... actually, I'm not sorry for anything. You have some growing up to do, son.

*This asshole, while arguing with Laura calls SRS cosmetic, says that gays and transsexuals "demand new laws and shove [their lifestyles] down [our] throats," baits her with pronouns, essentially equates BlackLivesMatter to a rogue posse of vigilantes, and says only people who pay a federal income tax should be able to vote.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2015, 12:07:18 am by The_Queen »
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Offline guizonde

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7444 on: October 30, 2015, 12:04:33 am »
ok, i read up a bit, turns out that i was talking about biological sex, not gender. stupid language barrier. now, my curiosity is piqued. where does transsexuality (or is that transgenderness) come from? neuro or bio? after reading up, it could go either way. any idea?
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Offline The_Queen

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7445 on: October 30, 2015, 12:09:06 am »
ok, i read up a bit, turns out that i was talking about biological sex, not gender. stupid language barrier. now, my curiosity is piqued. where does transsexuality (or is that transgenderness) come from? neuro or bio? after reading up, it could go either way. any idea?

Would it kill you to look on google fucking scholar. The answer is still unknown, though the current belief is that the brain and the physical body develop during different trimesters (the physical sex organs develop during the second while the brain develops during the first, or vice versa).

And I use sex and gender interchangeably because I think the nuance is silly.
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Offline Cerim Treascair

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7446 on: October 30, 2015, 12:36:10 am »
ok, i read up a bit, turns out that i was talking about biological sex, not gender. stupid language barrier. now, my curiosity is piqued. where does transsexuality (or is that transgenderness) come from? neuro or bio? after reading up, it could go either way. any idea?

Would it kill you to look on google fucking scholar.

Would it kill you to be motherfucking polite? Guizonde asked a fair question, probably on the basis of "Queen likely knows more about this than I do, therefore, someone to reasonably ask about something I have no knowledge of."

Be a decent human being for once, eh?
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Offline guizonde

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7447 on: October 30, 2015, 12:53:01 am »
ok, i read up a bit, turns out that i was talking about biological sex, not gender. stupid language barrier. now, my curiosity is piqued. where does transsexuality (or is that transgenderness) come from? neuro or bio? after reading up, it could go either way. any idea?

Would it kill you to look on google fucking scholar.

Would it kill you to be motherfucking polite? Guizonde asked a fair question, probably on the basis of "Queen likely knows more about this than I do, therefore, someone to reasonably ask about something I have no knowledge of."

Be a decent human being for once, eh?

thanks for backing me up. i was about to say something along the lines of "google scholaring" something is not conducive to intelligent and fluid discussion. hell, that's the reason we're on this forum, right? to discuss things between us? all i wanted was queen's input.

eta: queen, i just read up your eta to my original comment. no need to get so defensive. i like to have civil discourse, with intelligent arguments and polite aknowledgements when there is ignorance on a subject. and when somebody says "fuck off, noob", that is not mature, or conducive to discourse. the person can be blowing off steam, but if it's a troll or an undesirable, the best course of action is to not respond to the bait. before you say i'm getting all high and mighty, that's not my point. i treat people like people, not discriminating between gender. that "dainty lady" bit you wrote stings. i don't care if girls swear, but i expect a decent argument behind it. what do you think i am? just another cishet shitlord that tumblr hates? no. i'm trying to have a discussion on a subject i'm clueless and curious about, and trying to learn about it so i don't go offending people, because i try to be a decent human being.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2015, 01:03:54 am by guizonde »
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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7448 on: October 30, 2015, 01:07:51 am »
Queen, Cerim, are you two having bad days? The snapping seems uncalled for.
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Offline davedan

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7449 on: October 30, 2015, 01:21:02 am »
It looks like there are a lot of people arguing at cross purposes with differing levels of knowledge about the context of the original post which seems to be a response to something fairly offensive. Now adults would take a deep breath and assess their differences...

On the otherhand I have an inflatible pool filled with KFC Gravy and Mash Potatoes and am taking on all comers.

Offline Kat S.

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7450 on: October 30, 2015, 01:29:55 am »
People, people...I'm sorry.

My mistake on not looking into context on the sign.  I got it from a random picture search, and I didn't look at the actual Twitter thread and where the reaction was coming from.  At this point I'm not going to bother explaining why I decided to post it, because it simply won't contribute to the discussion.

Yes, I'm Cisgender.  Like what guizonde said, I also try to educate myself on some things I don't understand.  If I knew what kind of visceral reaction it was going to bring among forum members, I wouldn't have posted it.

Can't we all get along now?

Offline Cloud3514

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7451 on: October 30, 2015, 02:10:35 am »
Nope. You fucked up once, now you're forever a shit lord. /sarcasm

Yeah, in all seriousness, I would argue it goes a long way to acknowledge one's own fuck ups and try to avoid repeating said fuck ups.
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Offline Cerim Treascair

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7452 on: October 30, 2015, 02:54:40 am »
Queen, Cerim, are you two having bad days? The snapping seems uncalled for.

... Less a 'bad day' and more 'my tolerance for people being absolute gits being next to nil'.

I'm becoming vastly less fond of people who bite the heads off folks who are asking perfectly reasonable questions, and if they can't be civil, they need to sit in the corner and be silent until they can function in regular society.  I've seen way, WAY too much of that bullshit in the last few weeks, and it ain't just cropping up here.  So I'm just a wee bit on a hair trigger when I see it.

EDIT:  Davedan, care to divvy those mashed potatoes and gravy? that sounds fucking delicious right now.  Got any popcorn chicken to go with it?
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Offline davedan

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7453 on: October 30, 2015, 03:03:24 am »
I was really going for mashed potato and gravy mud wrestling mate. But if you want some (swan)dive right in.

Offline dpareja

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #7454 on: October 30, 2015, 03:07:09 am »
And I'm raping oxygen

The way I see it, oxygen gas wouldn't be wearing those valence electrons unless it secretly wanted it.

Oxygen will bond to anything.

Stop slutshaming oxygen.

Still better than krypton. Such a prude in public, but get it alone with some fluorine and make it really cold...
Nah, the fluorine is the problem there. Just look what he did with oxygen... FOOF!

True. Fluorine is a master at that.


Indeed. Look up "sand won't save you this time". See what just three of them do to chlorine.
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Radon, xenon and even argon have succumbed to its wiles (though argon needed a bit of encouragement from hydrogen).
Argon? When those two get together with antimony, shit gets REAL. Fluoroantimonic acid, guys.

Now that's some cool stuff.

Of course, we're missing the elements that pretty much can't help but react: put cesium in a beaker of water and the beaker explodes. Alkali metals don't mess around.
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