Worst of Social Justice

[Ironchew]

I like the way you think, Contrarian. Keep it up.

[guizonde]

That is so far removed from worst of social justice. This is simply a means of collaterally arguing gamergate.

And Guizonde's point largely boils down to "social justice because big words and no citation in a 140 character tweet.

no, i did not say that. i didn't even say social justice, i said "what does the pathology of male privilege mean?" i have no clue. regarding the statistics, i guess that as an average men use more violent methods of ending their lives. hell, i hanged myself and slashed my wrists, although i did try overdose out of curiosity. since i'm still around to read someone consistently misinterpreting what i say, that means i haven't tried enough obviously. but i'm not talking about the pissing contest of depression and suicide. what would need to be done is get better access to treatment and therapy. but that's besides the point. the "citation needed" i pulled was regarding comic book covers and the "commercialism" of international men's day.

this isn't social justice. that's buzzwords for retweets. and that's a pathetic cry for relevance.

[Ultimate Paragon]

And saying "women attempt suicide more" is misleading.  People who attempt suicide once are fairly likely to make subsequent attempts.  And since these statistics are based on incidents rather than individuals, it seems fairly likely that the number of women who attempt suicide is smaller than the statistics would look like to a layman.

[Even Then]

That would still count as women attempting suicide more, though.

[Ultimate Paragon]

That would still count as women attempting suicide more, though.

Technically, yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean more women attempt suicide.

Besides, there's a big difference between a suicide attempt and a successful suicide.  A failed suicide leaves behind a living person, who can potentially be rehabilitated.  A successful suicide leaves a corpse.

[TheContrarian]

That would still count as women attempting suicide more, though.

Look at fatality statistics.

For men between 26-34 in the UK suicide beats heart disease and cancer to top spot in the list of causes of death.

If more women than men are attempting suicide but more men are actually finishing the job you can posit a number of different possible conclusions.

1. Women are just bad at planning and implementing their way out
2. MISOGYNY
3. Attention seeking

Or it could just be the usual feminist thing of taking an issue that affects men, claiming it affects women more then screeching until the patriarchy government caves in and throws money at them until they go away.

It worked with female-only homeless shelters.  I guess it's just too bad that 88-91% of everyone sleeping rough is male.  WOMYN ARE MORE AFFECTED THOUGH.

XD

[pyro]

^ I actually agree with you here. If more men are dying of suicide, then suicide is killing men more. Let's stop comparing levels of oppression and just try to fix the problem.

[Even Then]

^ Fair point.

[niam2023]

I suppose this is something.

Point to Contrarian.

[Askold]

If I remember correctly this is mainly about the methods chosen for attempted suicide. Generally speaking usually the first suicide attempt is a failure either due to the method failing or the person simply becoming scared and changing their mind half way through. Also men and women have slight difference in what methods they are most likely to use and men gravitate towards methods that are more likely to work.

Men use things like hanging and firearms which are likely to be lethal QUICKLY. Women are more likely to use drug overdose and even though that is also lethal it takes a while so someone can find them and if they change their mind after taking the drugs there are ways to flush their system and get them help. (Particularly if they are trying to overdose on some medication rather than using poison.) Particularly guns are mainly used by men, which is probably because men are more likely to own guns.

And I don't doubt that there are equally many men who have second thoughts about their suicide attempts, but that's kinda hard to undo when you are hanging with a rope around your neck.

[niam2023]

Though let's be honest, the only reason McIntosh was repeatedly mentioned is because he is a for of Ultie 's pet cause, it that shall not be named outside f&b.

[Eiki-mun]

Though let's be honest, the only reason McIntosh was repeatedly mentioned is because he is a for of Ultie 's pet cause, it that shall not be named outside f&b.

Okay? So? Divorced from the author, do you believe the content does or does not belong here?

[Damen]

Though let's be honest, the only reason McIntosh was repeatedly mentioned is because he is a for of Ultie 's pet cause, it that shall not be named outside f&b.

Okay? So? Divorced from the author, do you believe the content does or does not belong here?

Speaking for myself, I know sweet fuck all about the author but my initial thought when I read that was "FuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYou
FuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYou."

Hmm. 1,800th post.

[SCarpelan]

Yeah, McIntosh completely misses the point of Men's Day. I would like to know his justification in claiming that Men's Day does not address the problems caused by the patriarchy.

His type of feminist pisses me off: there is nothing wrong in acknowledging the problems men face even in the cases where women face similar problems in a bigger scale. Caring about one of these doesn't mean you care less about other and this is also probably why he distorts a valid point about the suicide attempt statistics. Women attempting suicide and failing more than men means that they do suffer from depression even if it doesn't show as clearly in the suicide statistics and women's depression should be taken as seriously as men's. It should never be used to diminish the seriousness of men's suicide statistics.

I'd also make the claim that the patriarchal gender roles are the main influence in the disparity of successful suicide attempts between genders. The less reliable ways of suicide that can be used as a cry for help are seen as more suitable for women. The more "masculine" ways also cause death more reliably: even if a man would be in an emotional state where he'd choose a "cry for help" option he's not as likely as a woman is to overdose on pills or something similar.

[The_Queen]

i mean, what does "the pathology of male privilege" even mean?

Essentially "big words, I don't understand." We've had this discussion before, but a simple google search "pathology definition" would really help. The definition, in a medical sense, is "pathological features considered collectively; the typical behavior of a disease." I belabor this point, but a google search is very helpful to most of life's questions.

Also, it's not "a 140 character tweet". It's four. That's almost 600 characters there.

My point still stands that the 140 character limit is not conducive to citing every portion of your work. Even with 4 tweets. But, you want a citation, how about the APA

What? It looks like it fits in with the rest of the stuff here. Even if that dude is related to the GG debacle he is using the same justifications as the SJWs are. "Privileged people can never be 'victims' and don't deserve help."

"Men do face real issues but most stem from patriarchy and the pathology of male privilege."

It is disingenuous for you to characterize it as "privileged people can never be victims and therefore don't deserve help." What he is saying is in our culture of masculinity men are less likely to reach out for help, socially or psychologically, for fear of being seen as weak, and therefore men do not seek out help (which last I checked is supported by studies). This is a direct way that patriarchy actively causes male problems. A lot of other male problems as well; for example women winning custody more often is a direct result of a patriarchal society which sees women as more qualified to nurture, and men as the bread-winners who pay child support.

^ I actually agree with you here. If more men are dying of suicide, then suicide is killing men more. Let's stop comparing levels of oppression and just try to fix the problem.

This isn't comparing a level of oppression. What he is trying to say is that focusing solely on males committing more suicides ignores that this is due to men being less likely to seek out mental help. It seems a tad counterproductive to the ends of reducing male suicide to ignore social factors like this that directly contribute. More so to the point, it seems like one of the best ways to deal with the issue of male suicides is to focus on this aspect of patriarchy: all the male suicide PSA's in the world will do nothing if men are still afraid to seek mental help when necessary due to some silly notion of masculinity.

Though let's be honest, the only reason McIntosh was repeatedly mentioned is because he is a for of Ultie 's pet cause, it that shall not be named outside f&b.

Okay? So? Divorced from the author, do you believe the content does or does not belong here?

Speaking for myself, I know sweet fuck all about the author but my initial thought when I read that was "FuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYou
FuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYouFuckYou."

Hmm. 1,800th post.

How very mature: disregard the sociological point he is making regarding patriarchy contributing to male problems so that you may intentionally misinterpret his point as misandrist because he thinks your men's day is silly. I think it's silly also. Big whoop.