FSTDT Forums

Community => Entertainment and Television => Topic started by: Lithp on January 16, 2012, 12:11:17 am

Title: Sherlock 2
Post by: Lithp on January 16, 2012, 12:11:17 am
THIS thread's about the movie!
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: Cataclysm on January 16, 2012, 12:18:10 am
First was one better than the sequel.
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: Lithp on January 16, 2012, 12:39:14 am
I'm torn on that.

Game of Shadows was a lot more straightforward & lost some of the theatrics, but on the other hand, Moriyarti was way more competent than Blackwood.
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: Smurfette Principle on January 16, 2012, 02:18:43 am
I liked Moriarty better than Blackwood, and I like the setup of this one. 'Twas better.

But killing off Irene and throwing Mary off the train was such a ridiculous cop-out clearly designed to add as much slash as possible.
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: largeham on January 16, 2012, 10:17:19 am
Did not like it. The whole section based in the artillery town in Germany pissed me off. Also, of course no one has ever died from jumping off a cliff/waterfall/etc.
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: JohnE on January 16, 2012, 10:58:39 pm
I liked how they subverted the slow-mo fight planning gimmick from the first one.
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: Cataclysm on January 16, 2012, 11:48:28 pm
Twise!

I liked Moriarty better than Blackwood, and I like the setup of this one. 'Twas better.

But killing off Irene and throwing Mary off the train was such a ridiculous cop-out clearly designed to add as much slash as possible.

Irene was a minor character, and we wouldn't have expected Moriarty to let her live since she's crushing on Holmes. Mary wasn't really important with the action.
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: Lithp on January 17, 2012, 03:27:18 am
I agree with Mary, it would just be character derailment to turn her into an Action Girl. However, Irene was not a minor character. She was the female lead from the first movie. By definition, she was minor in the second film, but the death scene MADE her a minor character, she wasn't killed because she was a minor character.

As for a canon justification, there's really very little besides to show that Moriyarti was a total asshole. What was he afraid of? Her not doing her job properly? Fire her. Her helping Holmes to stop him? Does that really justify letting dozens of people in on his murder plot?

I do like that they killed off a major character (which obviously would have to be Irene), but I would have preferred it to happen later.
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: DiscoBerry on January 18, 2012, 07:34:36 pm
Anyone else notice the crates labeled H1n1 in the arms factory???
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: Cataclysm on January 18, 2012, 09:31:32 pm
I agree with Mary, it would just be character derailment to turn her into an Action Girl. However, Irene was not a minor character. She was the female lead from the first movie. By definition, she was minor in the second film, but the death scene MADE her a minor character, she wasn't killed because she was a minor character.


Sorry I meant in the Short stories.
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: Lithp on January 18, 2012, 09:50:05 pm
Ah. I had heard she got an expanded role for the film.
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: Lt. Fred on January 19, 2012, 11:07:21 pm
Anyone notice the HILARIOUS Graham Greene joke?

Something like "Who would have thought that a holiday to Brighton could be dangerous?"

HILARIOUS.
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: Eniliad on January 19, 2012, 11:15:15 pm
Sherlock 2 wasn't a perfect movie by a long stretch, but I had a blast watching it. The only thing that really stuck in my craw though was the very very last scene - it only works from that one specific angle, and so wouldn't fool the characters in the scene (just the audience).
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: Cataclysm on January 20, 2012, 12:52:37 am
Also, what happened to the remote-controller thing from the first film?
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: Askold on January 20, 2012, 01:27:43 am
Also, what happened to the remote-controller thing from the first film?

My favourite theory is that either it was to be used in a later phase or it was to be used in a backup plan.

I liked the movie although having served as artillery spotter the cannon scene did hurt.

It was probably the most unrealistic use of cannon that I have seen in an live-action movie.

But otherwise it was a great movie.
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: largeham on January 20, 2012, 02:00:37 am
Sherlock 2 wasn't a perfect movie by a long stretch, but I had a blast watching it. The only thing that really stuck in my craw though was the very very last scene - it only works from that one specific angle, and so wouldn't fool the characters in the scene (just the audience).

Yeah, that was weird, any person sitting there would have immediately noted that something is on the chair.

Also, anarchists who drink wine from 1789 and proclaim that year as they year of our great revolution? Anarchists who get married? Do the writers know anything about anarchism? Or do they just not care?
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: Lt. Fred on January 20, 2012, 02:25:12 am
Here's a question: if they had all this artillery pre-laid and zeroed and everything, why didn't they just blow up the train?
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: largeham on January 20, 2012, 03:01:20 am
The whole artillery scene was weird. He shoots at a tower with a person hanging off it, and that person survives? The main characters survive a mortar/artillery barrage while running through woods?

P.S. http://exiledonline.com/sherlock-holmes-2-fine-whatever/
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: Askold on January 20, 2012, 06:25:28 am
Surviving shrapnell from impacts that are uncomfortably close is very common in Hollywood movies, it even happens in movies and series that are otherwise realistic. (Atleast once in Band of brothers, although I haven't seen much of the series.)

Lets review that scene throrougly:

But most of it is a spoiler so:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: largeham on January 20, 2012, 06:45:27 am
No no, I get it. They can't have most of the main characters dying, but they could have done it better maybe. Or changed the scene somewhat.

Also, machine pistols weren't invented until the end of WW1.
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: Askold on January 20, 2012, 07:09:47 am
Correction:
Mauser C96 went to production 1896 so it was available before WW1.

On the other hand the movie is supposed to be during 1892 so it still is an anachronism. (and the type of Mauser used in movie went to production in 1923)
(click to show/hide)

Anyway, since the whole point is that
(click to show/hide)


Anyway. I would rather see a more realistic description of artillery in movies anyway. Having the shells land few hundred meters off target would have been
a) more realistic
b) equally dangerous
c) less impressive for the moviegoers

Bah. This is just one of my pet peeves. I did like Holmes vs Moriarty mind games in the movie and I also liked that
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: Lt. Fred on January 20, 2012, 07:17:19 am
Also, machine pistols weren't invented until the end of WW1.

That's not quite true. The Mauser C96 that they were using was brought into service in 1896. It's not unreasonable to suggest that they might have had working test examples a few years in advance (though 1891 is probably pushing it).

Unless you mean the sub-machine guns. Which I understand to just be regular box-fed machine guns that Watson uses himself because he's just that manly.
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: lighthorseman on January 20, 2012, 07:39:18 am
If you could maintain suspension of disbelief, it was a fun movie.
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: largeham on January 20, 2012, 08:47:46 am
Ah, I was wrong about machine pistols then. Were Mauser C96s built in large quantities at first? IIRC Germany armed 10,000 soldiers with machine pistols/sub-machine guns by the end of WW1, so I'm not sure how many machine pistols were produced as arming troops with a completely new weapon in peacetime is different to doing so in war.

Unless you mean the sub-machine guns. Which I understand to just be regular box-fed machine guns that Watson uses himself because he's just that manly.
That pissed me off to no end. Sure Watson was in the army, but that gun would have been difficult to handle.

Also, branching out a bit, Moriarty asks Holmes why the British government did nothing, implying that the government turned a blind eye and or gave tacit approval to Moriarty's activities and wouldn't mind a war. However, a war would have destroyed all the trade networks built up and even if the British government wanted one, they did not want one on the scale of WW1. Also, they would not want someone supplying their enemies (assuming they knew that Moriarty was supplying everyone).
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: Eniliad on January 20, 2012, 10:43:41 am
Well, gotta satisfy the CTSTDT crowd.
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: Lithp on January 25, 2012, 01:57:34 pm
Moriyarti was implying that, whether they admit it or not, everyone subconsciously wants violence. To him, "closing the negotiations would just trigger war faster" was just an excuse. You could just chalk it up to Evil Cannot Comprehend Good.

I wasn't big on the whole shootout in the woods scene anyway. But speaking of stuff blowing up, what exactly was Holmes planning with the tower? He kind of dodged the question when Watson asked, & I couldn't figure it out either.

Also, what happened to the remote-controller thing from the first film?

Still in development?
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: MaybeNever on January 30, 2012, 02:37:18 pm
One nice touch is that the end scene is almost exactly how Doyle originally ended things.

(click to show/hide)

Moriarty was a great character. Cast just right, which is nice since I don't think I'd seen that actor before. I felt like there was a bit of a copout with the reveal near the end that Holmes had

(click to show/hide)

It could've used a few comments or bits here and there to give more background to Holmes figuring it out. It wasn't entirely out of the blue, but I think a couple more bread crumbs for the viewers would've been nice. On the other hand, the adrenaline was an obvious Chekov's Gun. Maybe it balances out.

And what was with the scene talking about the Holmes brothers' secret code in messages? Did that come up anywhere else? I'm hoping it's a setup for the next film, which is supposed to be out in December 2013. Otherwise, beyond the "naked fat man haha" angle of that scene it seems a bit pointless. They could've cut it without losing anything if Mycroft had told Watson in Switzerland, "Oh, your wife is doing great also she saw my flaccid penis and I have a really old butler."

In fact I may have preferred that, if only for the magic and whimsy of that line appearing on Youtube forevermore.
Title: Re: Sherlock 2
Post by: Lithp on January 30, 2012, 02:44:41 pm
I noticed that too, but he was supposed to have

(click to show/hide)

Honestly, as far as actually solving the mystery goes, the 2nd movie was boatloads better than the first. The first relied on (A) bizarre symbology that was either rather obscure, completely made up, or both & (B) things the audience might have a general knowledge of, but wouldn't know how to recognize. For instance, I figured out that Blackwood had drugged himself, that doesn't mean I knew what all of those shots of dead plants were about. But, then again, the second was too straightforward, so they still haven't really got that idea right.