Author Topic: Man shoots black kid cops do nothing  (Read 91807 times)

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Offline Smurfette Principle

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Re: Man shoots black kid cops do nothing
« Reply #300 on: March 27, 2012, 03:25:35 pm »
Also, don't put the kid on a fucking cross people, he was still a kid and may well have done something stupid. None of it would make it worth shooting him, even if he had attacked someone twice his size out of, ironically, concern for his own life. But I doubt the kid was saint, particularly with that suspension he had going for him.

The bolded is the only part that's important in this entire paragraph.

Offline Dantes Virgil

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Re: Man shoots black kid cops do nothing
« Reply #301 on: March 27, 2012, 04:09:13 pm »
The media most certainly decides how they choose to portray a person.  I can assure you my biracial son would bristle at being referred to as a "white man" simply because his mother is white, and frankly, I'm a little surprised anyone would defend the media's right to racially label someone, given the ramifications that can have in the public.  Setting the tone in the media right out of the gate as essentially "white man shoots black kid" creates a whole set of racial issues that may or may not be true for this case.  But once you label it so, especially in this country, it's thrown out there and you can't take it back.  This is particularly critical, since some of the articles indicate that people are thinking of trying Zimmerman for a hate crime.  That carries more penalties with it.  Shouldn't we get it right, if we're really going to go there?  If we want a real trialand real justice -- which is what we want, isn't it? -- these things ought not be tried in the media and the media certainly shouldn't have inflamed things by jumping the gun.

Offline Shane for Wax

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Re: Man shoots black kid cops do nothing
« Reply #302 on: March 27, 2012, 05:33:21 pm »

I'm really not sure your first paragraph (or even your second) should even be directed at me. Alls I did was post a link to clear up a few things. Especially considering the fact that people have been saying false things about the event and making it seem as if they are true. I've seen them. Unless I'm hallucinating things.

Unless of course you're defending yourself under the Suspiciously Specific Denial trope...

Either way, discussing Martin the way he has been discussed is a bit inconsiderate and is by all accounts a circus of sickness.

Also, the article I posted tears to shreds one of your posts about the defense of Zimmerman. Mainly this part:

Quote
It confirms Zimmerman was following him, which wasn't in dispute, and it confirms Zimmerman wanted to know what he was doing there, which wasn't inconsistent with his neighborhood watch job, given the article I cited also mentions several burglaries happening in that area prior to this incident. 

I'm not really sure why you would think the first paragraph was directed at you, since it said Zachski?  In any event, you said "hey guys you should read" ...so I took that to mean we should read it and comment on it, not sure what is unusual about that either.  The article you posted suggests that this new information is only coming out because people are trying to smear Martin's reputation, particularly right wing bloggers or cops selectively leaking information.    I'm not sure how it clears up a few things, unless of course you just accept   at face value that the only reason we now know more information is because it's some conspiracy to smear Martin.  Lots of sites have been reporting false information, starting with the first media releases that Zimmerman was white and self-appointed watchman.

I'm not sure why it's disrespectful to discuss what is now being mentioned by a prominent news outlet like ABC.  Further, given that your article has no mention whatseover of the cell phone call, I have absolutely no idea how you think your article "shreds" my argument you quoted above, given that it was all about the cell phone call.  If you're saying your source somehow proves that Zimmerman wasn't following him and that he didn't ask Martin what he was doing there, that makes even less sense.

** edited to fix formatting.

No, I'm saying that Zimmerman was not in his rights to ask what Martin was doing there as 'neighborhood watch'. He's not a damn cop, he has no right to ask what a kid is doing around, much less that he should expect an answer just because. Also, this is the same man who called 911 100s of times because he was paranoid and who shouldn't have been given any kind of power, even one that is really title only such as neighborhood watch. As pointed out earlier, he thought a young child was suspicious.

Also, I thought it would be obvious when I said paragraph directed at me that it would be the two paragraphs addressed at me.

No, what is disrespectful is trying to come up with the events to make one party look more at fault for what happened. Mostly, that it was the kid's fault. Which again, I have seen.

The problem with the stand-your-ground law is it is highly up to the claimer to use it and the only one who can actually defend themselves about it is usually dead or incapable of defending themselves. We have a law here in Georgia too that does the same thing. People are already trying to change it here in Georgia cause of the Martin case. However, dad has always told me it only applies in our home or my car. Technically, it doesn't. But it's what he told me.

Also, you can't tell me that there isn't a smear campaign going. You can't. It's a lie otherwise.

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Offline Nightangel8212

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Re: Man shoots black kid cops do nothing
« Reply #303 on: March 27, 2012, 05:35:19 pm »
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/man-shot-florida-teen-fears-safety-supporters-053604303.html

This is what Yahoo news is saying about it, but keep in mind I suspect Yahoo is rapidly turning into Faux Jr...
Apparently Zimmerman is claiming now that he had given up the chase, and the kid approached him from behind.
I think people might have missed this since it was at the bottom of page 20...

Offline The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist

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Re: Man shoots black kid cops do nothing
« Reply #304 on: March 27, 2012, 07:56:00 pm »
Any better descriptions on what exactly the 13 year old saw? I find it kinda hard to believe someone would see what they're saying they did, and promptly turn away in time for a gun to be shot.

Also, don't put the kid on a fucking cross people, he was still a kid and may well have done something stupid. None of it would make it worth shooting him, even if he had attacked someone twice his size out of, ironically, concern for his own life. But I doubt the kid was saint, particularly with that suspension he had going for him.

It's quite possible that he said or did something rash, but I'm not sure how a suspension for repeated tardiness can be construed to mean much of anything in regard to what happened that night.
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Offline Shane for Wax

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Re: Man shoots black kid cops do nothing
« Reply #305 on: March 27, 2012, 08:00:49 pm »
I got suspended for protecting myself... so it's not like you always get a suspension for being a troublemaker... sometimes shit outside of your control happens or you get pegged with something you didn't do. Oh, wait.

More linky-ness:
Lead Investigator wanted to arrest and charge Zimmerman
« Last Edit: March 27, 2012, 08:03:56 pm by Shane for Wax »

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Offline gyeonghwa

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Re: Man shoots black kid cops do nothing
« Reply #306 on: March 27, 2012, 08:22:38 pm »
If you want some depressing reads, here is a collection of Fox News comment about Trayvon's case. It really puts a dent in that "post-racist" bullcrap some people are saying. http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/republican-base-exposed-by-davidoatkins.html
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Offline DasFuchs

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Re: Man shoots black kid cops do nothing
« Reply #307 on: March 27, 2012, 08:28:25 pm »
Any better descriptions on what exactly the 13 year old saw? I find it kinda hard to believe someone would see what they're saying they did, and promptly turn away in time for a gun to be shot.

Also, don't put the kid on a fucking cross people, he was still a kid and may well have done something stupid. None of it would make it worth shooting him, even if he had attacked someone twice his size out of, ironically, concern for his own life. But I doubt the kid was saint, particularly with that suspension he had going for him.

It's quite possible that he said or did something rash, but I'm not sure how a suspension for repeated tardiness can be construed to mean much of anything in regard to what happened that night.

Empty baggie of pot, not tardiness
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Offline Dantes Virgil

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Re: Man shoots black kid cops do nothing
« Reply #308 on: March 27, 2012, 08:35:13 pm »

No, I'm saying that Zimmerman was not in his rights to ask what Martin was doing there as 'neighborhood watch'. He's not a damn cop, he has no right to ask what a kid is doing around, much less that he should expect an answer just because. Also, this is the same man who called 911 100s of times because he was paranoid and who shouldn't have been given any kind of power, even one that is really title only such as neighborhood watch. As pointed out earlier, he thought a young child was suspicious.

Since when is someone not within their rights to ask a question?  Just because Martin doesn't have to answer doesn't by any stretch of the imagination mean that Zimmerman is not allowed to ask.  I'll give you another example.  Not three or four weeks ago, I was pulling into the parking lot of the Boys and Girls Club where my son goes after school.  I saw a younger guy run through the parking lot, darting in front of me, looking over his shoulder, with his hoodie up.  He ran right by the club and down their side stairs.  When I got out of my car, I noticed that he was hanging around to the side of the club.  This is a place where occasionally cops have to bust up people from drinking and making drug trades -- and there are children in that building.  I went inside and reported it to the workers there.  They're all in their early twenties and that night all of them were young women.  So, I went outside with two of them and the guy was hanging around the side.  I asked him if he had a kid at the club.  He said no.  I asked what he was doing there, since kids were here and he had no business here.  He started stammering, threw his hands up, and took off.  At the base of those stairs were two other guys who took off running too.  Did I have a right to ask them what the fuck they were doing there?  YES.  They could've said nothing.  But I had a right and a reason to ask the question, even though I don't own the property.

There is a reason neighborhood watches are formed, and as other articles have mentioned, that neighborhood had experienced several burglaries fitting the age and race of Martin.  Zimmerman had a right to ask just like any one of us has a right to ask questions.  It's also consistent with what that gated community appointed him to do.  There is absolutely nothing illegal about having a neighborhood watch.  Frankly, the current incident aside, it's one of the best things that can happen to a community. 

Quote
Also, I thought it would be obvious when I said paragraph directed at me that it would be the two paragraphs addressed at me.

No, what is disrespectful is trying to come up with the events to make one party look more at fault for what happened. Mostly, that it was the kid's fault. Which again, I have seen.

The problem with the stand-your-ground law is it is highly up to the claimer to use it and the only one who can actually defend themselves about it is usually dead or incapable of defending themselves. We have a law here in Georgia too that does the same thing. People are already trying to change it here in Georgia cause of the Martin case. However, dad has always told me it only applies in our home or my car. Technically, it doesn't. But it's what he told me.

Also, you can't tell me that there isn't a smear campaign going. You can't. It's a lie otherwise.

So the media would likewise be disrespectful by calling Zimmerman a white man who shot a black kid (knowing the turmoil that can cause) as well as calling him "self-appointed" -- right?  I don't see investigating why Martin was in the neighborhood is a "smear campaign" and I find the fallacious false choice of "you're lying" or "it's a smear" to be problematic.  The answer to why he was in the neighborhood when he didn't live there was because he had been suspended from school -- not for tardiness, but for having a baggie that had marijuana residue in it.  Those facts in and of themselves don't make Martin less innocent.  But there's nothing wrong with getting all the facts, including why he was there in the first place.  There is nothing wrong with complete information -- and that is what we need to wait for before we jump to conclusions. 

Offline Dantes Virgil

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Re: Man shoots black kid cops do nothing
« Reply #309 on: March 27, 2012, 08:36:35 pm »
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/man-shot-florida-teen-fears-safety-supporters-053604303.html

This is what Yahoo news is saying about it, but keep in mind I suspect Yahoo is rapidly turning into Faux Jr...
Apparently Zimmerman is claiming now that he had given up the chase, and the kid approached him from behind.
I think people might have missed this since it was at the bottom of page 20...

I saw it.  I'm just not sure what to make of it.  Too many things are getting revised, added to, changed, etc.  Best to see what the hell else gets revealed. 

Offline The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist

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Re: Man shoots black kid cops do nothing
« Reply #310 on: March 27, 2012, 08:39:57 pm »
Any better descriptions on what exactly the 13 year old saw? I find it kinda hard to believe someone would see what they're saying they did, and promptly turn away in time for a gun to be shot.

Also, don't put the kid on a fucking cross people, he was still a kid and may well have done something stupid. None of it would make it worth shooting him, even if he had attacked someone twice his size out of, ironically, concern for his own life. But I doubt the kid was saint, particularly with that suspension he had going for him.

It's quite possible that he said or did something rash, but I'm not sure how a suspension for repeated tardiness can be construed to mean much of anything in regard to what happened that night.

Empty baggie of pot, not tardiness

My bad. I'd read that it was due to tardiness on a few sites, but it appears they were incorrect.
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Offline m52nickerson

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Re: Man shoots black kid cops do nothing
« Reply #311 on: March 27, 2012, 10:09:38 pm »
Since when is someone not within their rights to ask a question?  Just because Martin doesn't have to answer doesn't by any stretch of the imagination mean that Zimmerman is not allowed to ask.  I'll give you another example.  Not three or four weeks ago, I was pulling into the parking lot of the Boys and Girls Club where my son goes after school.  I saw a younger guy run through the parking lot, darting in front of me, looking over his shoulder, with his hoodie up.  He ran right by the club and down their side stairs.  When I got out of my car, I noticed that he was hanging around to the side of the club.  This is a place where occasionally cops have to bust up people from drinking and making drug trades -- and there are children in that building.  I went inside and reported it to the workers there.  They're all in their early twenties and that night all of them were young women.  So, I went outside with two of them and the guy was hanging around the side.  I asked him if he had a kid at the club.  He said no.  I asked what he was doing there, since kids were here and he had no business here.  He started stammering, threw his hands up, and took off.  At the base of those stairs were two other guys who took off running too.  Did I have a right to ask them what the fuck they were doing there?  YES.  They could've said nothing.  But I had a right and a reason to ask the question, even though I don't own the property.

There is a reason neighborhood watches are formed, and as other articles have mentioned, that neighborhood had experienced several burglaries fitting the age and race of Martin.  Zimmerman had a right to ask just like any one of us has a right to ask questions.  It's also consistent with what that gated community appointed him to do.  There is absolutely nothing illegal about having a neighborhood watch.  Frankly, the current incident aside, it's one of the best things that can happen to a community. 

So the media would likewise be disrespectful by calling Zimmerman a white man who shot a black kid (knowing the turmoil that can cause) as well as calling him "self-appointed" -- right?  I don't see investigating why Martin was in the neighborhood is a "smear campaign" and I find the fallacious false choice of "you're lying" or "it's a smear" to be problematic.  The answer to why he was in the neighborhood when he didn't live there was because he had been suspended from school -- not for tardiness, but for having a baggie that had marijuana residue in it.  Those facts in and of themselves don't make Martin less innocent.  But there's nothing wrong with getting all the facts, including why he was there in the first place.  There is nothing wrong with complete information -- and that is what we need to wait for before we jump to conclusions.

This....all of this.

I don't live in a gated community, but I so live near the end of a dead end street.  If I see someone I've never seen before walking up and down my street I have every right to asked them who they are.  Now I don't have to be mean and angry about it, but I can ask them.

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Offline Smurfette Principle

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Re: Man shoots black kid cops do nothing
« Reply #312 on: March 27, 2012, 10:15:48 pm »
I don't see investigating why Martin was in the neighborhood is a "smear campaign" and I find the fallacious false choice of "you're lying" or "it's a smear" to be problematic.

The smear campaign is not "why was he in the neighborhood?" but "he probably did drugs," "he looked like a gangsta," "he had gold teeth." (Yes, I have seen that as an excuse for why Zimmerman was afraid of him)

Offline m52nickerson

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Re: Man shoots black kid cops do nothing
« Reply #313 on: March 27, 2012, 10:19:23 pm »
The smear campaign is not "why was he in the neighborhood?" but "he probably did drugs," "he looked like a gangsta," "he had gold teeth." (Yes, I have seen that as an excuse for why Zimmerman was afraid of him)

From Zimmerman?  Most likely not, which means it is nothing but speculation.
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Offline Smurfette Principle

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Re: Man shoots black kid cops do nothing
« Reply #314 on: March 27, 2012, 10:32:09 pm »
The smear campaign is not "why was he in the neighborhood?" but "he probably did drugs," "he looked like a gangsta," "he had gold teeth." (Yes, I have seen that as an excuse for why Zimmerman was afraid of him)

From Zimmerman?  Most likely not, which means it is nothing but speculation.

No, from people who are also saying, "He's not the angel everyone portrays him as."

And if we're interested in getting all the facts, let's talk about how Zimmerman has been arrested three separate times and never charged.