Author Topic: Xbox One  (Read 20593 times)

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Offline rtvc2012

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Xbox One
« on: May 21, 2013, 11:59:01 pm »
Has been revealed today
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xboxone/meet-xbox-one

What are your thoughts?  As for me, I think it looks too much like an early 80s VCR.

Art Vandelay

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2013, 12:04:25 am »
What are your thoughts?  As for me, I think it looks too much like an early 80s VCR.
That's an extremely shallow assessment.

Personally, I'm not a fan of the emphasis on social networking and stuff like TV and Netflix over actual games. Also, the mandatory Kinect is a very bad sign in my books. That said, I'll largely reserve my judgement for when its actually released.

Offline Cloud3514

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2013, 12:40:49 am »
It has two major DRM. First, it requires a licensing fee for used games. This is already a deal breaker for me. Second, it requires a daily internet connection, which is almost as bad as always-online DRM. In other words, Microsoft basically told someone like me who sees the problems with these kinds of DRM to fuck themselves.
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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2013, 12:52:55 am »
First, it requires a licensing fee for used games. This is already a deal breaker for me.

Same.  I'm pretty sure places like Gamestop will be pissed, too.
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Offline TheUnknown

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2013, 01:12:45 am »
First, it requires a licensing fee for used games. This is already a deal breaker for me.

Same.  I'm pretty sure places like Gamestop will be pissed, too.

With the growing trend of "licensing" instead of "selling (by that I mean simply selling permission to use a product and not selling something for a person to actually own),"  I wonder how long it'll be until movies are simply licensed and movie players require online connections so it check for permission.  Also, I'm curious; does requiring the license mean you pay for a game twice?

Offline syaoranvee

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2013, 01:13:30 am »
Consoles are moving toward being a multiuse machine then just gaming.  The marking of that was all over the current generation.  More then likely because of them having to compete against things like people either choosing a console or a Ipad.

And let's be honest, with the strong focus on digital game purchases, DLC purchases, online multiplayer for games or overall interactive connectivity (For example, I turn my Wii U on and I'm seeing drawings people have made and what people are saying about games and what not on the main dashboard) it's been pretty obvious that we've been heading toward a always online experience because online is where the money is at and people who play offline are lost sales.

Art Vandelay

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2013, 01:30:21 am »
First, it requires a licensing fee for used games. This is already a deal breaker for me.

Same.  I'm pretty sure places like Gamestop will be pissed, too.

With the growing trend of "licensing" instead of "selling (by that I mean simply selling permission to use a product and not selling something for a person to actually own),"  I wonder how long it'll be until movies are simply licensed and movie players require online connections so it check for permission.  Also, I'm curious; does requiring the license mean you pay for a game twice?

Software has always been licensed rather that sold. When you buy a game or a movie or whatever, you own the physical medium on which its stored (be it a DVD, a floppy, a VHS tape, whatever it may be), but you don't own the actual content. Owning the content would mean having the right to sell it for profit, being entitled to royalties, the right to access and alter/re-use the source code, all the jazz. It's been that way since the days of vinyl records, it's not a new thing by any stretch of the imagination.

Offline mellenORL

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2013, 01:31:41 am »
I suppose another motivation for the used game licensing fees is to recoup lost unit sales from renting, too. I'm a gamefly fan since '04, the few games I do buy are from their inventory, new or used.

In any case, all games will be streaming or DL only pretty soon. That way, they get all the chokehold on DRM and the money it forces you to pay. If they would just reduce the price of games to reflect the savings of not mass producing and distributing discs,  offer flash drive load-ups at stores and continue to make games that have single player and multi player offline modes, it wouldn't be so egregiously greedy, poor snubbing, and control freaky.
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Offline Katsuro

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2013, 02:38:17 am »
It has two major DRM. First, it requires a licensing fee for used games. This is already a deal breaker for me. Second, it requires a daily internet connection, which is almost as bad as always-online DRM. In other words, Microsoft basically told someone like me who sees the problems with these kinds of DRM to fuck themselves.

Actually the once a day net connection thing has become rather unclear.  MS is now saying the Phil Harrison was merely describing a "potential scenario", whatever the fuck that means.  So nobody is entirely sure what is actually the case.  I hope it's not true because my internet goes down for about 24hrs at a time once every month.

As for the activiation codes, and how  to play a game on a friend's console you'll have to buy another code at the game's full retail price, initially I was pissed offby this.  But then I realised that's exactly the same as PC games.  They've required one time activation codes for fucking years now, which means you can't bring your PC games round to a friend's house and play it on his PC unless you can find a key gen, and nobody seems to give a fuck about that.  It's also no different to Steam games - you can't currently re-sell any Steam games you buy.  And people fucking love steam, so why is it okay for steam but not MS?  You might argue the difference is Steam is downloaded games and these are physical discs but as somebody pointed out legally you don't own the contents of the disc, you've technically purchased a liscence to use said software and it's been that way since pretty much always.

It's also no different to the current situation with XBL downloaded games and nobody gets their panties in a twist about that.  Also, sooner rather than later all games, films and music are going to be downloads and physical mediawill no longer be a thing, sp people need to get used to the idea of content tied to devices/accounts and not being able to sell on your stuff.

The only real issue for is that the Xbox One has lost one of the advantages consoles had over PC's - that you could lend games to your friends (unless they basically buy the fucking game) and play them at eachother's houses for game nights etc.  If they keep doing things like this they'll make their own consoles irrelevant as there will be zero advantages to consoles and people will start thinking, "Well what's the point? This is just like my PC but my PC is more powerful."

But generally speaking I think people are over reacting to some of the stuff in MS's announcment (peple are even bitching about the controller's new rumble features, wtf?) and they haven't stopped to think that all these things have already been happening on another device for decades and it never bothered them then.

Edit: Turns out you can play games at a friend's house if you sign in using your profile, but that's still a bit of a pain if you've a group together and you have to keep signing in and out of eachother's profiles.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 03:01:31 am by Katsuro »

Offline Cloud3514

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2013, 03:29:53 am »
Yeah, no, when I buy a box with a disc inside, I'm not buying a license to play that disc. I'm buying the physical disc that happens to have the data for a game stored on it. What I then do with that disc is none of Microsoft's business. They shouldn't be charging people if I decide that I don't want that disc and sell it to someone, whether it be someone I know or to a store. Its the same reason I don't like to buy games digitally unless I trust the platform. Steam is a platform I trust because there are no restrictions on how many computers I can install my games to and I have never had issues getting my games from one computer to another. I don't really like that I have to run the games through steam, but that's a small thing compared to what Microsoft is implementing here. They're putting DRM on physical property. How this doesn't raise a red flag with some people is beyond me.

Hell, I don't even buy used all that often and, when I do, I refuse to pay twice for one product. Again, I'm not buying a license, I'm buying a disc with data stored on it.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 03:34:50 am by Wolf Lord Waldorf X »
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Art Vandelay

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2013, 03:38:09 am »
Yeah, no, when I buy a box with a disc inside, I'm not buying a license to play that disc. I'm buying the physical disc that happens to have the data for a game stored on it. What I then do with that disc is none of Microsoft's business.
So by your own logic, you could, say, upload the contents of said disk to a torrent site, or copy it onto blank DVDs to sell to your friends. Or you could perhaps go into the source code, dig out the engine and distribute/sell it to others as you see fit. That'd be totally ok, right?
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 03:41:20 am by Art Vandelay »

Offline Katsuro

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2013, 03:40:40 am »
They shouldn't be charging people if I decide that I don't want that disc and sell it to someone, whether it be someone I know or to a store...hell, I don't even buy used all that often and, when I do, I refuse to pay twice for one product.

People keep saying this but I can't find where that's been confirmed, all I can find out about is MS confirming you will be able to sell your games on. Anyone got any links?

And it doesn't raise any red flags with me because to be honest I don't give that many fucks.  I try to reserve my rage for shit that actually matters.  MS interfereing with used game sales sucks yes, but it's not that high up on my list of priorities.  The way some people are reacting you'd think the new console requires you to let MS emplyess fuck your sister's still warm corpse in order do anything.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 03:43:38 am by Katsuro »

Offline Katsuro

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2013, 03:47:39 am »
Steam is a platform I trust because there are no restrictions on how many computers I can install my games to and I have never had issues getting my games from one computer to another.

MS has confirmed you can install and play games on any console, free of charger, if you sign in with the account that the game is attached too.  How is that different to what you've described with steam?  I'm pretty sure with steam you have to sign into the steam account you bought the game with regardless of which PC you're installing it on (unless you send it as a gift to another account or something but I think you have to buy the game again to do that).

Offline Cloud3514

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2013, 04:00:59 am »
Yeah, no, when I buy a box with a disc inside, I'm not buying a license to play that disc. I'm buying the physical disc that happens to have the data for a game stored on it. What I then do with that disc is none of Microsoft's business.
So by your own logic, you could, say, upload the contents of said disk to a torrent site, or copy it onto blank DVDs to sell to your friends. Or you could perhaps go into the source code, dig out the engine and distribute/sell it to others as you see fit. That'd be totally ok, right?

No, because that's what I could potentially do with the data on the disc. I am not buying the ownership of the data on the disc, just the disc itself. I said that what I do with the disc is not Microsoft's business, not what I do with the data. Yeah, I understand that some people say that they're buying the data, I say that I'm buying the disc with the data stored on it, not the data itself. I hope that makes sense.

People keep saying this but I can't find where that's been confirmed, all I can find out about is MS confirming you will be able to sell your games on. Anyone got any links?

http://www.blisteredthumbs.net/2013/05/report-xbox-one-not-backwards-compatible/
http://www.blisteredthumbs.net/2013/05/xbox-one-requires-internet-connection/
http://news.xbox.com/2013/05/qa

For the online connect, they flat out say on their website that it will require an Internet connection, but will not require a constant connection, which is only a step above always-online (and if I have to explain why always-online is an issue, I point to SimCity). Otherwise, things are a bit confused right now, so there's not a whole lot to discuss until it gets cleared up.

Now, let's assume assume that there will be a fee to install and play on another console. Rentals are out the window. Used games are not going to be viable. Borrowing games will be difficult, especially for people who are short on cash. No other medium does this. I can loan a friend a book. I don't have to pay twice to buy a used CD. I can rent a DVD with no issue. Why is it excusable for video games to expect you to pay twice for the same product?

That said, I'm not criticizing them for trying to keep people from passing a disc around their social circle and having several people play, but that can be solved a very simple thing: Only run the game when the disc is in the machine. You know, just like how the 360 and PS3 handles it.

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And it doesn't raise any red flags with me because to be honest I don't give that many fucks.  I try to reserve my rage for shit that actually matters.  MS interfereing with used game sales sucks yes, but it's not that high up on my list of priorities.  The way some people are reacting you'd think the new console requires you to let MS emplyess fuck your sister's still warm corpse in order do anything.

Because it takes SO much effort to not buy a console that doesn't fit with what you want it to do. I'm not defending the people who are overreacting, I'm trying to be a smart consumer. I don't like having DRM on physical discs, so I won't buy it. Its that simple.

MS has confirmed you can install and play games on any console, free of charger, if you sign in with the account that the game is attached too.  How is that different to what you've described with steam?  I'm pretty sure with steam you have to sign into the steam account you bought the game with regardless of which PC you're installing it on (unless you send it as a gift to another account or something but I think you have to buy the game again to do that).

Because it is a physical disc, not downloaded data. There is no other medium that tries to restrict what you can do with physical media. I don't have to pay the publisher when I buy a used book, nor have I ever encountered a DVD player with DRM or a CD player that refused to play a CD because I don't have a license to play that music. Why are video games different that its excusable to put DRM on physical media?

Also, does anyone have some statistics to show that needless DRM has ever prevented significant piracy or not hurt legitimate customers?
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 04:12:08 am by Wolf Lord Waldorf X »
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Offline Katsuro

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Re: Xbox One
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2013, 04:15:25 am »

People keep saying this but I can't find where that's been confirmed, all I can find out about is MS confirming you will be able to sell your games on. Anyone got any links?

http://www.blisteredthumbs.net/2013/05/report-xbox-one-not-backwards-compatible/
http://www.blisteredthumbs.net/2013/05/xbox-one-requires-internet-connection/
http://news.xbox.com/2013/05/qa


Umm, that first link actually proves the fee for buying and palying used games people are talking about isn't true - "Microsoft has begun trying to clear up some confusion surrounding the Xbox One and its interaction with used games. An official Xbox Support Twitter account explains that there will be “no fees” for using pre-owned titles on your next-generation console"

And as I've already said, the internet connection thing is not clear, we don't know for certain because MS later said that the "confirmation" of the net connection thing was merely a "potential scenario" and that they're not confirming anything at this stage.


Quote
And it doesn't raise any red flags with me because to be honest I don't give that many fucks.  I try to reserve my rage for shit that actually matters.  MS interfereing with used game sales sucks yes, but it's not that high up on my list of priorities.  The way some people are reacting you'd think the new console requires you to let MS emplyess fuck your sister's still warm corpse in order do anything.

Because it takes SO much effort to not buy a console that doesn't fit with what you want it to do.

Yeah, because that's exactly what I was saying ::)


Now, let's assume assume that there will be a fee to install and play on another console. Rentals are out the window. Used games are not going to be viable. Borrowing games will be difficult, especially for people who are short on cash. No other medium does this. I can loan a friend a book. I don't have to pay twice to buy a used CD. I can rent a DVD with no issue. Why is it excusable for video games to expect you to pay twice for the same product?


PC games have had these restrictions for a very long time.  I remember borrwing PC games from friends in the 1990's and I had to find cracks and/or key gens in order to do so because you could only use the code the game came with a handful of times.  And even before activation codes  installing software to multiple devices was actually often illegal as it violated the user agreement and the publishers permissions regarding their software. I do agree rentals are out the widnow and that sucks, but as I said hasn't that been the case for PC games for ages?

My point is that people didn't complain about these issues with PC games but they're going ballistic now that MS is doing the same thing with the X-box.  It sucks that the few advantages of consoles are disappearing here but I honestly don't understand the level at rage people have for the same thing they didn't mind on another platform.  This is my point, I'm not talking about how this compares to movies and music and books, or even if it's fair practice, I'm only talking about how it compares to whats already been the case on another similar platform for ages and people said nothing but now they're forthing at the mouth over it with the xbox and how that doesn't make any sense.  i'm also saying all these things are minor niggles (and for the record I would prefer them to not be happening with the new x-box) and some people need to calm the fuck down and get some perspective.

Edit: There seems to be a lot of confusing and conflicting information coming from MS about just about everything.  I think we need to wait a bit to find out for 100% certain how these "features" will actually work.  They've royally fucked up their unveiling event, even without all the fan rage.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2013, 04:50:29 am by Katsuro »