Israeli Foreign Minister: Dissent? OFF WITH YOUR HEAD!

[mellenORL]

From your statements, you clearly only watched a few minutes of the video. Or have short term memory issues. The journalists indeed tried to question the soldiers within moments of them tear gassing kids. The commander flatly refused to answer questions, saying he was under orders not to. They tried indeed to interview the military officer accused of cruel interrogation tactics with young kids. They were denied an interview.

Remember, this is the Israeli military - not city police. They do not have to talk to journalists - in fact, they are under orders not to. Nevertheless, the producers got a hold of as many court and jail records as they could, and interviewed former IDF soldiers about their impressions of serving as security in Israeli settlements. And they interviewed a few settlement organizers for background info...and got a good example of bigotry along with the history of West Bank settlement policy.

[Nemo]

My comment about not interviewing soldiers was not a general comment about the video, but a specific reference to the first few interviewees.

Like I said, I don't agree with everything about Israel. But if you want to discuss bigotry, then how about the fact that the propaganda video you linked downplays the role of Islamist ideology in stirring up conflict, instead trying to pin it all on the Israelis (indeed, much of the Israeli extremism is likely a response to Islamist threats)? For all it's flaws, including a few religious fanatics*, Israel is still a secular country which grants its Arabic citizens far more rights than they could ever enjoy anywhere else in the region.

* a good friend of mine who is a Jewish atheist mentioned once that she was considering visiting Israel, but was worried about the people who would bombard her with proselytization.

[Canadian Mojo]

My comment about not interviewing soldiers was not a general comment about the video, but a specific reference to the first few interviewees.

Like I said, I don't agree with everything about Israel. But if you want to discuss bigotry, then how about the fact that the propaganda video you linked downplays the role of Islamist ideology in stirring up conflict, instead trying to pin it all on the Israelis (indeed, much of the Israeli extremism is likely a response to Islamist threats)? For all it's flaws, including a few religious fanatics*, Israel is still a secular country which grants its Arabic citizens far more rights than they could ever enjoy anywhere else in the region.

* a good friend of mine who is a Jewish atheist mentioned once that she was considering visiting Israel, but was worried about the people who would bombard her with proselytization.

I guess history downplays the role of Catholic ideology in stirring up the French resistance, Jewish ideology in stirring up the Polish resistance, and Atheist ideology in stirring up the entire Soviet Union in WW2 and instead tries to pin it all on the Germans. In fact much of the German extremism was just a response to Catholic/Jewish/Atheist threats.

Yes, I went there.

You know why?

Because you are a fucking moron if you honestly believe that resisting and lashing out at your attackers by any means available to you is anything other than a basic human instinct.

[Ironchew]

Because you are a fucking moron if you honestly believe that resisting and lashing out at your attackers by any means available to you is anything other than a basic human instinct.

This is the critical issue for me. It would be easy to do a UP and say "Both sides are the same!" or go full Nemo and excuse Israel for everything it does, but it's really hard to ignore the fact that Palestinians are the downtrodden occupants of a colonialist upstart. It's more than a little disingenuous to blame it all on radical Islam; much as I despise religion and I would rather there were no Islamic or Jewish states in the Middle East, it's obvious that all secular methods of progress were methodically destroyed by imperialists throughout the 20th century and the only common identity a downtrodden population has to fall back on is increasingly extremist religion. Israel has the responsibility as the occupier to release its grip on the Palestinian territories and allow it to function like a state. Once the population has room to breathe you won't see religious extremists as heads of state.

You might see a socialist or communist nation like several Middle-eastern movements tried to accomplish in the 20th century pre-U.S.-involvement, but as long as the U.S. can keep its fingers out of the region it will be a secular nation.

[RavynousHunter]

Fancy that, 'Chew made a good point.  Isreal's headed by psychotic, colonialist assholes.  Palestine's got some real winners in control, too, but they're the ones having their home slowly eaten away by America's chosen agent in the Middle East.