Author Topic: Worst of Social Justice  (Read 1550962 times)

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Offline Svata

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6690 on: August 04, 2015, 12:10:57 pm »
*sighs*
"Politician" is the occupational equivalent of "Florida".

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6691 on: August 04, 2015, 02:02:43 pm »
Yes, UP, it means you won't be able to sustain your githubgate crusade.

Excuse me while I drink your tears.

i'm sorry ironchew, but your hatred of ultie's clouding your judgement. a lot of these rules can and will be abused. hell, i'm sure he missed some of the loopholes, but those are already pretty big. i might go troll there, after all, i'm a nonconforming neuroatypical pluricultural person, so i've got free passes at dipshitery left, right, and center.

This is why I avoid the FOSS community whenever possible.  To get anything good, you have to wade thru a sea of shit.
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Offline Ironchew

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6692 on: August 04, 2015, 04:08:03 pm »
From the article:

Quote
But in America, the trend of applying "trigger/content" warnings about emotionally disturbing material to the works of many modern and ancient literary canons also seems more widespread.

To borrow a phrase, trigger warnings are the opposite of censorship. They are a way of saying "this thing you are about to read has material some people object to/don't want to be exposed to. Instead of not letting anyone read it, we are informing you ahead of time what those things are and letting you decide, for yourself, if you want to read it or not".

All I got from that article was the author whining at length about how people have to deal with the consequences of the things they say.
Quote
What Kirsten Powers glosses over, though, is that not even America's guarantee of free speech safeguards anyone from consequences like shaming or termination of employment, or even expulsion from a (private) school or university.
Free speech means the government cannot arrest you for what you say. It doesn't mean anyone else has to listen to or provide a venue for your speech.

Is it time to have this argument again? Oh well.

Free speech is not just the First Amendment. Free speech is also the philosophical principle that a civilized society has to allow people to have dissenting views and not be coerced into not expressing them. Protection from being thrown in jail is one aspect of free speech, but it's not the only one, because coercion can happen from non-government actors.

 If every time anyone says X they get fired from their job, people throw eggs at their house, they get letters threatening to kill them, etc. then very few people will dare say X. As a result, X vanishes from the public discourse, and funnily enough that happens no matter the truth value of X.

Speech is not free if certain opinions cannot be expressed without fear of disproportionate retaliation.

I don't think private organizations should be restricted by speech laws in their hiring and firing practices. Getting fired for having unpopular opinions is a real problem, sure, but it's a problem best addressed by bolstering our social safety net to the point that being unemployed no longer ruins an individual's life.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6693 on: August 04, 2015, 04:54:05 pm »


Man stabs woman = institutional systematic problem that requires our full focus.

Woman stabs man = who cares about some odd stabbing?

Offline davedan

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6694 on: August 04, 2015, 06:31:07 pm »


Man stabs woman = institutional systematic problem that requires our full focus.

Woman stabs man = who cares about some odd stabbing?

What percentage of female murder victims are killed by their domestic partner? What percentage of male murder victims are killed by their domestic partner?

Besides which the fact that he was tweeting meant that he wasn't stabbed to death. Unless of course twitter resolved the debate about the afterlife that has raged for thousands of years...

Offline guizonde

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6695 on: August 04, 2015, 06:47:23 pm »


Man stabs woman = institutional systematic problem that requires our full focus.

Woman stabs man = who cares about some odd stabbing?

What percentage of female murder victims are killed by their domestic partner? What percentage of male murder victims are killed by their domestic partner?

Besides which the fact that he was tweeting meant that he wasn't stabbed to death. Unless of course twitter resolved the debate about the afterlife that has raged for thousands of years...

i was mentally and physically tortured for 6 months at the hands of my then girlfriend.  my case was laughed out of the police department because i should've "manned up". despite having physical scars and being sent to a mental hospital for convalescence. i want equality in punishment and recognition.
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Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6696 on: August 04, 2015, 06:51:29 pm »
I don't think private organizations should be restricted by speech laws in their hiring and firing practices. Getting fired for having unpopular opinions is a real problem, sure, but it's a problem best addressed by bolstering our social safety net to the point that being unemployed no longer ruins an individual's life.

In a world with guaranteed basic income, or an equivalently strong social safety net, I would be totally in favour of making it legal to fire anyone for any reason. We don't live in that world.

I don't necessarily think we should have laws against firing someone over their speech, mind you, it would be a mess to implement. Something can be wrong without being illegal.
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Offline Ghoti

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6697 on: August 04, 2015, 08:30:05 pm »
I found a long and... interesting photoset on sexuality and gender. Spoilered because of multiple large images.

(click to show/hide)
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Offline niam2023

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6698 on: August 04, 2015, 08:50:46 pm »
EEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

* Stereogender: Identifies as a gender stereotype, any gender stereotype.
* Capiomapiogender: Identifies as a gender that's basically an eldritch abomination - it would drive you insane to learn this person's gender.
* Boopupbagender: gender changes to whatever is needed to be flirtatious with someone.
* Benghazisexual: A sexual desire wherein one wants to have sex with a national disaster, whether it be caused by man or accident.
* Braggasexual: Attraction to people who brag a lot.
* Effaciosexual: Sexual attraction in response to people dissing you.
* Malevosexual: Sexual attraction to whoever is the evilest person in the room.

DO NOT ERASE THESE TOTALLY LEGITIMATE GENDERS AND SEXUALITIES!!!
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Offline guizonde

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6699 on: August 04, 2015, 08:55:11 pm »
I found a long and... interesting photoset on sexuality and gender. Spoilered because of multiple large images.

(click to show/hide)

i'm so totes a demisexual grey-ace of hearts, be friends with me [/tumblrspeak]

or in the real world, a goddamn normal human being who's not out to shtoink every goddamn person on this earth.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6700 on: August 04, 2015, 11:53:49 pm »
According to The Mary Sue Ronda Rousey is transmisogynistic.  Why?  Because she acknowledges that a post-op transwoman would almost certainly have an advantage over female fighters.

(click to show/hide)

She's not wrong.  Gender reassignment is not a perfect art; you still have the same body structure you were born with for the most part, and that can certainly make a difference.

Offline davedan

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6701 on: August 05, 2015, 04:15:38 am »


Man stabs woman = institutional systematic problem that requires our full focus.

Woman stabs man = who cares about some odd stabbing?

What percentage of female murder victims are killed by their domestic partner? What percentage of male murder victims are killed by their domestic partner?

Besides which the fact that he was tweeting meant that he wasn't stabbed to death. Unless of course twitter resolved the debate about the afterlife that has raged for thousands of years...

i was mentally and physically tortured for 6 months at the hands of my then girlfriend.  my case was laughed out of the police department because i should've "manned up". despite having physical scars and being sent to a mental hospital for convalescence. i want equality in punishment and recognition.

I'm sorry for your experience guizonde, and not to be an arsehole, but your personal experience/anecdote doesn't answer my questions (which were to UP anyway)...

Offline Askold

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6702 on: August 05, 2015, 05:00:35 am »
Well, after searching the web for a while, it appears that the studies mainly focus on women as the victims and everytime that men as the victims come up in an article the article also mentions that male victims are often ignored.

http://opdv.ny.gov/statistics/nationaldvdata/intparthom.html

This page says that:
a) In 2007 "Intimate partners committed 14% of all homicides in the U.S., killing an estimated 1,640 women and 700 men." But it does not mention how many of those homicides happened in same-sex partnerships. So lets just say that women are more than twice as likely to be the victim of homicide by their partner.
b) Between 1980 and 2008: "2 out of 5 female murder victims were killed by an intimate." Men make up the massive majority of murder victims and when women are killed in a homicide substantial number of those are done by their partner.
c) "The percentage of males killed by an intimate fell from 10% in 1980 to 5% in 2008, a 53% drop."

All of this does make it clear that men are much less likely to lose their life due to domestic violence BUT the numbers from all domestic violence (not just homicides) are much more even.

This article also mentions violence with same-sex couples: http://time.com/2921491/hope-solo-women-violence/

Quote
Critics have argued that the survey format used in most family violence studies, the Conflict Tactics Scale, is flawed and likely to miss some of the worst assaults on women—especially post-separation attacks. Yet two major studies using a different methodology—the 2000 National Violence Against Women Survey by the National Institute of Justice and the Centers for Disease Control National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey published last February—have also found that some 40% of those reporting serious partner violence in the past year are men. (Both studies show a much larger gender gap in lifetime reports of partner violence; one possible explanation for this discrepancy is that men may be more likely to let such experiences fade from memory over time since they have less cultural support for seeing themselves as victims, particularly of female violence.)

So men are almost as likely (according to studies) to be the victims of domestic abuse but they get much less support. Most shelters are for women only, authorities are more likely to disregard their claims and more often than not male victims are blamed by most people around them. (Often someone tells them to "man up" or some feminist puts on a teachers hat and calmly explains that all his pain and suffering is caused by THE PATRIARCHY and therefore it is their own fault because they are a man.)

Quote
What about same-sex violence? The February CDC study found that, over their lifetime, 44% of lesbians had been physically assaulted by a partner (more than two-thirds of them only by women), compared to 35% of straight women, 26% of gay men, and 29% of straight men. While these figures suggest that women are somewhat less likely than men to commit partner violence, they also show a fairly small gap. The findings are consistent with other evidence that same-sex relationships are no less violent than heterosexual ones.

Again, women seem to be slightly less likely to harm their partner (but more likely to harm their children. Though this may also be because they are more likely to be around the children and have power over them.)

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence
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Offline I am lizard

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6703 on: August 05, 2015, 05:17:42 pm »

Quote
Critics have argued that the survey format used in most family violence studies, the Conflict Tactics Scale, is flawed and likely to miss some of the worst assaults on women—especially post-separation attacks. Yet two major studies using a different methodology—the 2000 National Violence Against Women Survey by the National Institute of Justice and the Centers for Disease Control National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey published last February—have also found that some 40% of those reporting serious partner violence in the past year are men. (Both studies show a much larger gender gap in lifetime reports of partner violence; one possible explanation for this discrepancy is that men may be more likely to let such experiences fade from memory over time since they have less cultural support for seeing themselves as victims, particularly of female violence.)

So men are almost as likely (according to studies) to be the victims of domestic abuse but they get much less support. Most shelters are for women only, authorities are more likely to disregard their claims and more often than not male victims are blamed by most people around them. (Often someone tells them to "man up" or some feminist puts on a teachers hat and calmly explains that all his pain and suffering is caused by THE PATRIARCHY and therefore it is their own fault because they are a man)
You yourself just admitted that "THE PATRIARCHY" ( or "toxic masculinity" in this case ) plays a role in discrimination against male victims.

Granted men fearing they may be seen as the aggressor plays a big role (the "but me can't get abused" mentality also plays in)
« Last Edit: August 05, 2015, 05:34:09 pm by I am lizard »

Offline guizonde

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6704 on: August 05, 2015, 05:23:04 pm »
(the "but men can't get abused" mentality playing into that)

don't i know it.
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