Author Topic: Worst of Social Justice  (Read 1549319 times)

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Offline TheL

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6945 on: September 14, 2015, 04:54:10 pm »
Some people are calling Rashid from Street Fighter a racist caricature:

https://archive.is/IiFsP

This despite the fact that the character was applauded when unveiled in Dubai:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-m3O2n4czs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-m3O2n4czs</a>

My issue isn't with Rashid himself.  My issue is with the fact that a walking sheik caricature was revealed as a playable character on September 11.  Seriously, everyone in the world knows what happened on 9/11/01.  It's super insensitive to Muslim Americans to release a character like that on the anniversary of the day that their friends and neighbors started irrationally hating them.
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Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6946 on: September 14, 2015, 04:55:22 pm »
Some people are calling Rashid from Street Fighter a racist caricature:

https://archive.is/IiFsP

This despite the fact that the character was applauded when unveiled in Dubai:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-m3O2n4czs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-m3O2n4czs</a>

My issue isn't with Rashid himself.  My issue is with the fact that a walking sheik caricature was revealed as a playable character on September 11.  Seriously, everyone in the world knows what happened on 9/11/01.  It's super insensitive to Muslim Americans to release a character like that on the anniversary of the day that their friends and neighbors started irrationally hating them.

That was unfortunate timing, yes, but to be fair, it's a Japanese game.

Offline ironbite

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6947 on: September 14, 2015, 05:30:02 pm »
With super world wide appeal.

Offline Sigmaleph

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6948 on: September 14, 2015, 07:58:46 pm »

Isn't it racist, sexist, etc to assume that certain groups can't speak/write properly?

It's racist, sexist, etc. to assume the speech patterns specific to a group are Correct and the standard and everything else is to be measured against. E.g. things like AAVE or vocal fry are often considered "wrong" (as opposed to just a variation), and there's at least an argument that it's because they're associated with black people and women, respectively.

As for ableism, well, no. It's not at all ableist to, e.g.  think someone who is dyslexic might have trouble with spelling.

Classism is something of a middle ground. speech patterns associated with being lower-class are devalued in the same way AAVE is, but there's also the fact that limited access to education will also result in having a more limited vocabulary, etc.

TL;DR: judging people for spelling and punctuation is pretty fucking silly. What you consider proper grammar and sentence structure can be influenced by prejudice, and even if in cases when it isn't use of language is a skill like any other. Some people have it and others don't. It's better to have it, but it doesn't determine your moral worth.


(and I didn't even get into how being bad at English is used to paint non-native speakers as idiots, because things start getting personal and nobody wants that)
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Offline VainRobot

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6949 on: September 14, 2015, 08:54:26 pm »

Isn't it racist, sexist, etc to assume that certain groups can't speak/write properly?

It's racist, sexist, etc. to assume the speech patterns specific to a group are Correct and the standard and everything else is to be measured against. E.g. things like AAVE or vocal fry are often considered "wrong" (as opposed to just a variation), and there's at least an argument that it's because they're associated with black people and women, respectively.

As for ableism, well, no. It's not at all ableist to, e.g.  think someone who is dyslexic might have trouble with spelling.

Classism is something of a middle ground. speech patterns associated with being lower-class are devalued in the same way AAVE is, but there's also the fact that limited access to education will also result in having a more limited vocabulary, etc.

TL;DR: judging people for spelling and punctuation is pretty fucking silly. What you consider proper grammar and sentence structure can be influenced by prejudice, and even if in cases when it isn't use of language is a skill like any other. Some people have it and others don't. It's better to have it, but it doesn't determine your moral worth.


(and I didn't even get into how being bad at English is used to paint non-native speakers as idiots, because things start getting personal and nobody wants that)

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)

Just because a dominant group says that a certain way of communicating is the best way doesn't mean other ways are bad.

Offline guizonde

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6950 on: September 15, 2015, 07:00:52 am »

Isn't it racist, sexist, etc to assume that certain groups can't speak/write properly?

Vox populi, et turbare, sapit et virtutis.

Some of the most intelligent people on this planet have a lot of trouble typing with proper grammar and syntax.

Some of the dumbest come across as smart when viewed through text.

Listen to the ideas, not how well they are presented or the voice it is presented with, for wisdom is not found in the ability to properly place commas but instead the ability to think with an open mind and a love for knowledge.

on that note, france is big with giving goncourt-prize-winners interviews. some of those winners write astoundingly well. put them in front of a microphone and all of a sudden, their glibness disappears.

i'm talking a person who is capable of writing moving books can't speak without stuttering or losing their shit. that's the reason they became writers. their strength lies not in the speech, but the writing. musicians talk through their instrument, writers through their pen, and orators rock with a microphone.

don't discredit anyone just because talking isn't their forté.
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6951 on: September 15, 2015, 08:36:03 am »
on that note, france is big with giving goncourt-prize-winners interviews. some of those winners write astoundingly well. put them in front of a microphone and all of a sudden, their glibness disappears.

i'm talking a person who is capable of writing moving books can't speak without stuttering or losing their shit. that's the reason they became writers. their strength lies not in the speech, but the writing. musicians talk through their instrument, writers through their pen, and orators rock with a microphone.

don't discredit anyone just because talking isn't their forté.

Damn straight.  I sound cool and coherent online, and I can write a story rather well, but when it comes to conversing with words...juuuuuuust not something I do, really.  Or prefer not to do, at least.  That's actually the only thing I enjoy about getting strep: I lose my voice and, thus, can't talk.  Wouldn't want it to be permanent, though.
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Offline guizonde

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6952 on: September 15, 2015, 09:14:43 am »
on that note, france is big with giving goncourt-prize-winners interviews. some of those winners write astoundingly well. put them in front of a microphone and all of a sudden, their glibness disappears.

i'm talking a person who is capable of writing moving books can't speak without stuttering or losing their shit. that's the reason they became writers. their strength lies not in the speech, but the writing. musicians talk through their instrument, writers through their pen, and orators rock with a microphone.

don't discredit anyone just because talking isn't their forté.

Damn straight.  I sound cool and coherent online, and I can write a story rather well, but when it comes to conversing with words...juuuuuuust not something I do, really.  Or prefer not to do, at least.  That's actually the only thing I enjoy about getting strep: I lose my voice and, thus, can't talk.  Wouldn't want it to be permanent, though.

i think so fast that my tongue can't keep up, so i've got a bit of a stuttering problem. when i speak american, i've got a virginian slur/twang, so i can speak pretty fast, if messily. when speaking french, however, i've got a southern accent (toulousan) that's closer to singing than it is to speaking. it forces me to speak slowly so as to get all the nuances of the accent. it actually makes my friends laugh when they hear me switch from one language to the other, as it seems like it's two different people speaking. oh, and i tend to growl and speak lower pitched in english than in french.

when it comes to writing, well, you probably noticed my posts are pretty stream-of-thought, unless i force myself to reread and organize them. i'm actually trying to write a book for me and my friends, but turns out that due to my current situation, i don't have the leisure of sitting down for a couple hours to work on it.
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Offline rookie

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6953 on: September 15, 2015, 12:52:19 pm »
I'm the other way around. I'm really good at talking. Put me in front of a group or one on one, makes no difference. I'll hold my own. Make me write it out and, well, we've all seen what happens when I try to put something important to me in writing.
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Offline VainRobot

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6954 on: September 15, 2015, 03:37:23 pm »
I can be pretty awkward with small conversations and often feel like I stumble or say the wrong things. But put me in front of an auditorium full of people and I do fine for some reason. I guess my struggle is formulating conversation on the fly, but if I have time to prepare I feel much more confident.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6955 on: September 15, 2015, 11:20:34 pm »


Well, at least this one isn't rallying for segregation.

Offline VainRobot

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6956 on: September 15, 2015, 11:43:52 pm »
We should get that person and this person and put them in a room together to see what happens.

Offline Ultimate Paragon

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6957 on: September 16, 2015, 08:32:10 am »
So, comics author Brian Wood wrote a newsletter criticizing call-out culture:

http://pastebin.com/BkP8r9m0

And now the outrage brigade is jumping down his throat.

https://archive.is/0d35y

You know what some of them are saying?  Shit like this:

Quote from: Dan Spaceman
To counterpoint Brian Wood's newsletter, I would be 100% happy if all harassers in comics killed themselves

Wow.  Just wow.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 08:37:17 am by Ultimate Paragon »

Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6958 on: September 16, 2015, 10:21:22 am »
I'm just tired of seeing babies, period.  They all look like a sack of particularly malformed potatoes, to me.
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Offline Dakota Bob

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Re: Worst of Social Justice
« Reply #6959 on: September 16, 2015, 10:04:07 pm »
Can some fellow Finnbros tell me why the fuck archive.is is blocked here now?