Worst of Social Justice

[dpareja]

I thought it was all kinds of illegal to turn away customers based on gender, at least in most of the English speaking world.

Not in Canada, apparently.  This picture was taken in Toronto.

Nope, it's illegal in Ontario. (It's a matter of civil rights, which is a provincial responsibility per s. 92(13) of the Constitution Act, 1867.)

[Ultimate Paragon]

I thought it was all kinds of illegal to turn away customers based on gender, at least in most of the English speaking world.

Not in Canada, apparently.  This picture was taken in Toronto.

Nope, it's illegal in Ontario. (It's a matter of civil rights, which is a provincial responsibility per s. 92(13) of the Constitution Act, 1867.)

On the other hand, there are idiots who think civil rights laws are solely for the benefit of the underprivileged.  In which case, these people are in for a rude awakening.

[rookie]

They're in for a rude awakening anyways.

[Ultimate Paragon]

Speaking of Canada:

[guizonde]

but he's a guy! sexism doesn't count for guys!

besides, all politicians are weasels, chances are you'd catch something horrible by sleeping with the guy. like a taste for politics.

[Sigmaleph]

Is that sexist though? Remarking on the fuckability of a male politician? I can see inappropriate, disrespectful or objectifying as possibilities, but I don't see how sexism applies.

The usual claim that saying that of a woman would be sexist is because, as a general rule, women tend to be evaluated in terms of their looks in a way men aren't (cf. all those memes about whether conservative women are hotter than liberal ones). You can say that the fact Trudeau is being called fuckable proves that it doesn't just happen to women, but that's a single point vs a general pattern. And even then, at best you could say it's not sexist when done to women, not that it's sexist when done to men.

Maybe Jezebel is convinced that women are judged on their looks too often and men not often enough and are trying to balance the scales, as it were.

[guizonde]

Is that sexist though? Remarking on the fuckability of a male politician? I can see inappropriate, disrespectful or objectifying as possibilities, but I don't see how sexism applies.

The usual claim that saying that of a woman would be sexist is because, as a general rule, women tend to be evaluated in terms of their looks in a way men aren't (cf. all those memes about whether conservative women are hotter than liberal ones). You can say that the fact Trudeau is being called fuckable proves that it doesn't just happen to women, but that's a single point vs a general pattern. And even then, at best you could say it's not sexist when done to women, not that it's sexist when done to men.

Maybe Jezebel is convinced that women are judged on their looks too often and men not often enough and are trying to balance the scales, as it were.

it can be considered sexist when the headline is "canadians elect a guy (familiar language, besides, sex is irrelevant in this case) named justin (no last name, condescending)..." the "uncontroversially fuckable" part is being a shithead. like, are we in farenheit 451 where looks matter in politics and the prettiest wins the presidency? i fail to see how this is not a two-way street.

[Sigmaleph]

OK, but how is that sex-based? It's not like there's an overall trend of women being treated respectfully and men being treated on a first-name basis (or is there? I don't read Jezebel, maybe that's a thing with them).

They do say "guy", but that's more part of the informal style than anything. And I mean I know they don't fail to mention women are women when talking about them, either, so it's not different treatment by gender.

[guizonde]

OK, but how is that sex-based? It's not like there's an overall trend of women being treated respectfully and men being treated on a first-name basis (or is there? I don't read Jezebel, maybe that's a thing with them).

They do say "guy", but that's more part of the informal style than anything. And I mean I know they don't fail to mention women are women when talking about them, either, so it's not different treatment by gender.

they could've used another sentence to say the same thing, for example, "canadians elect justin trudeau". same basic meaning, but the phrasing changes where the emphasis is put. sure, "guy" is informal, but when you add in the "guy named justin" (like any other joe shmoe you may come across) and when you add in the "fuckable" comment, it's objectifying his sex (gender? i'm confused). the more i read the headline, the more it's condescending, and i don't even like the guy. it is different treatment by gender because statistically speaking, women are the oddity. there's what, one woman for every five guys in politics? everybody assumes a politician is gonna be a guy (for better or worse), so why emphasize on the person's gender when they're in the majority if it's not to explicitely objectify, belittle, reduce, or ridicule them?

iirc, jezebel is the braindead kind of "grrrl power", so you can extrapolate from there "oh, they hired a justin to do a job a girl could do better". i'm not saying that's jezebel's intention, at least i hope not. perhaps i'm reading too much into it. but if i thought about it, some idiot might just think about it too and start a shitstorm.

disclaimer: i will consider jezebel a trashy tabloid until proven factual and respectable. i will consider trudeau a scumbag until proven competent (and even then, i leave room for doubt).

[Thejebusfire]

You could designate a place for the mosh pit. I'm sure there are solutions other than completely banning it.

[The_Queen]

OK, but how is that sex-based? It's not like there's an overall trend of women being treated respectfully and men being treated on a first-name basis (or is there? I don't read Jezebel, maybe that's a thing with them).

They do say "guy", but that's more part of the informal style than anything. And I mean I know they don't fail to mention women are women when talking about them, either, so it's not different treatment by gender.

they could've used another sentence to say the same thing, for example, "canadians elect justin trudeau". same basic meaning, but the phrasing changes where the emphasis is put. sure, "guy" is informal, but when you add in the "guy named justin" (like any other joe shmoe you may come across) and when you add in the "fuckable" comment, it's objectifying his sex (gender? i'm confused). the more i read the headline, the more it's condescending, and i don't even like the guy. it is different treatment by gender because statistically speaking, women are the oddity. there's what, one woman for every five guys in politics? everybody assumes a politician is gonna be a guy (for better or worse), so why emphasize on the person's gender when they're in the majority if it's not to explicitely objectify, belittle, reduce, or ridicule them?

iirc, jezebel is the braindead kind of "grrrl power", so you can extrapolate from there "oh, they hired a justin to do a job a girl could do better". i'm not saying that's jezebel's intention, at least i hope not. perhaps i'm reading too much into it. but if i thought about it, some idiot might just think about it too and start a shitstorm.

disclaimer: i will consider jezebel a trashy tabloid until proven factual and respectable. i will consider trudeau a scumbag until proven competent (and even then, i leave room for doubt).

You could just take the Kathleen Hanna approach. That works, too.

[I am lizard]

You could designate a place for the mosh pit. I'm sure there are solutions other than completely banning it.

Nope, banning is the only answer.

[guizonde]

You could just take the Kathleen Hanna approach. That works, too.

what's the kathleen hanna approach? is it because i said i'll distrust until proven trustworthy?

[The_Queen]

You could just take the Kathleen Hanna approach. That works, too.

what's the kathleen hanna approach? is it because i said i'll distrust until proven trustworthy?

Kathleen Hanna was the lead singer of the pivotal punk bank Bikini Kill, which birthed a subgenre of punk known as Riot Grrrl. In the early 90's punk shows were notorious for sexual assaults, molestations, and even rape of girls and young women. This discouraged most women from attending punk shows or getting into the audience for fear of being victimized. Kathleen, being the in your face punk icon that she is, told the boys in the crowd to get to the back so that the girls could be in the front of the audience. She said that until girls could join other punk audiences without fear of assault, her shows would always be the safe space for women in punk. Her hard line stance with her audience, as well as having her boyfriend drop a major bomb on MTV after Woodstock 99, were crucial in causing other punk musicians to take the issue of sexual assault of young women seriously.

[guizonde]

You could just take the Kathleen Hanna approach. That works, too.

what's the kathleen hanna approach? is it because i said i'll distrust until proven trustworthy?

Kathleen Hanna was the lead singer of the pivotal punk bank Bikini Kill, which birthed a subgenre of punk known as Riot Grrrl. In the early 90's punk shows were notorious for sexual assaults, molestations, and even rape of girls and young women. This discouraged most women from attending punk shows or getting into the audience for fear of being victimized. Kathleen, being the in your face punk icon that she is, told the boys in the crowd to get to the back so that the girls could be in the front of the audience. She said that until girls could join other punk audiences without fear of assault, her shows would always be the safe space for women in punk. Her hard line stance with her audience, as well as having her boyfriend drop a major bomb on MTV after Woodstock 99, were crucial in causing other punk musicians to take the issue of sexual assault of young women seriously.

that's really cool of her, and smart to boot. but after rereading my post several times, the only conclusion i came to was that you misquoted and commented on the mosh pit pic. because i can't make out the link between my post and yours.