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I have to agree with Art here. The example I would use is this. A skeleton called Kennewick Man was discovered in Washington, and a local tribe wanted to have the remains buried in accordance with their traditions. That would have been the wrong decision, as the scientific value of the remains is far greater. Culture does not trump the advancement of knowledge, and I have always believed, in the most literal snese, that nothing is sacred.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennewick_Man
Religion is regarded by the common man as true, by the wise man as false, and by the powerful man as useful
Yeah, if the pagans are so smart, why did Jesus invade Pagan-land on the back of a dragon and kill them all!
Quote from: lord gibbon on December 14, 2015, 09:37:47 pmI have to agree with Art here. The example I would use is this. A skeleton called Kennewick Man was discovered in Washington, and a local tribe wanted to have the remains buried in accordance with their traditions. That would have been the wrong decision, as the scientific value of the remains is far greater. Culture does not trump the advancement of knowledge, and I have always believed, in the most literal snese, that nothing is sacred.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennewick_ManSo you want to have your value of the advancement of knowledge (even if said knowledge provides no real benefit) should be held above the value of respecting the dead held by that tribe.
Quote from: I am lizard on December 14, 2015, 10:30:47 pmQuote from: lord gibbon on December 14, 2015, 09:37:47 pmI have to agree with Art here. The example I would use is this. A skeleton called Kennewick Man was discovered in Washington, and a local tribe wanted to have the remains buried in accordance with their traditions. That would have been the wrong decision, as the scientific value of the remains is far greater. Culture does not trump the advancement of knowledge, and I have always believed, in the most literal snese, that nothing is sacred.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennewick_ManSo you want to have your value of the advancement of knowledge (even if said knowledge provides no real benefit) should be held above the value of respecting the dead held by that tribe."No real benefit", huh? So I take it you actually have the necessary background knowledge in archaeology, anthropology and other relevant fields to make such a bold claim, and are not at all just some layman who has no idea what he's talking about, yes?
Even if you're correct, though, I would argue any knowledge, much less knowledge that furthers our understanding of ancient history to be far more valuable than humouring someone's psuedo-spiritual beliefs.
The emperor has no clothes huh? I take it you have the knowledge of fabric, sewing, and fashion to make such a bold claim.If you can provide me with evidence studying the skeleton will provide practical benefit to people I will concede keeping the skeleton was the right thing.
The discovery of the Kennewick Man, along with other ancient skeletons, has furthered scientific debate over the exact origin and history of early Native American people.[15] One hypothesis holds that a single source of migration occurred, consisting of hunters and gatherers following large herds of game who wandered across the Bering land bridge. An alternative hypothesis is that more than one source population was involved in migration immediately following the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM) that occurred ~22k to ~18k years BP, and that the land migration through Beringia was preceded by, or roughly synchronous with, a waterborne migration from coastal Asia.[34] The similarity of some ancient skeletal remains in the Americas, such as Kennewick Man, to coastal Asian phenotypes is suggestive of more than one migration source.[2][15][24][35] Classification of DNA from ancient skeletons such as Kennewick Man and others of similar phenotype may or may not reveal genetic affiliation between them, with either Beringian[36][37] or coastal Asian[38][39] source populations.Regardless of the debate over there being one or more than one source of migration following the LGM, the Kennewick Man has yielded insight into the marine lifestyle and mobility of early coastal migrants.[29]
Why? Explain why your arbitrary beliefs and values are different than theirs.
So basically, you want to compare the tangible benefits of science vs clinging to the remnants of a dead culture? Is this really something that needs to be explained in depth to you?
Quite useful, scientifically speaking.
Life for the sake of life means nothing.
Just because something has no immediately tangible value doesn't mean its useless. Look at most of quantum physics.
Why are queer people significantly less problematic and dramatic than gay people??? What is it about monosexuality that drives people off their fucking rockers?
So no real practical value?
Quote from: I am lizard on December 14, 2015, 11:29:06 pmSo no real practical value? So by "practical value", you mean immediately useful in your day to day life? In that case, would you support tearing down all publicly funded museums? After all, it's of no practical value to anyone, those tax dollars could be better spent on other things, yes?Or to use your logic, what is the practical value of as a society going out of our way to validate a miniscule group's psuedo-religious beliefs?
My argument isn't that we shouldn't bother with things that don't have practical value, my argument is we shouldn't do so if it infringes on a groups rights.
Edit: natives have been shit on for the past 500+ years, could we at least give them this?
Rights? What, the right to have their beliefs validated by everyone else? I'm pretty sure that's not a right anybody has or should ever have.
Quote from: Art Vandelay on December 15, 2015, 12:22:59 amRights? What, the right to have their beliefs validated by everyone else? I'm pretty sure that's not a right anybody has or should ever have.Property rights.It's not a question of agreeing with them. It's a question of taking something (a corpse, in this case) that belongs to them. Without a very compelling reason, they should be allowed to do whatever they want with it.