2014 American Midterm Election Thread

[Sigmaleph]

<Spuki rant snipped for length>

Y'know, every single time you post one of your rants on spirituality and the age of aquarius and whatnot, I am tempted to reply and actually argue the point. I then decide to let it go because it would pointless antagonising and I generally like you as a poster, so why pick a fight.

But it gets hard to hold my tongue when your reaction to disagreement is to call the forum at large: weak, stupid, inferior, pus-bags, worthless, sons and daughters of shit, children of losers, shitbag nihilists, and who knows what else because I lost track.

It's not that it offends me. Words on a screen and all that. It's that clearly whatever measure of respect and desire for civility I hold towards you is not reciprocated. Given the tone you have set, I'm not going to bother with that anymore.

You're wrong. You're wrong about spirituality, but you already knew we disagree on that. You're wrong about progressives being a superior breed of person and conservatives being dumb lazy idiots and I'm running out of polite ways to try to show you that. The reason you are always confused as to why progressives don't win is because of your tribalistic thinking where your ingroup is always right and the outgroup is always wrong.

Many progressives are lazy, dumb, ignorant, or selfish. Many conservatives are honest, clever, educated and kind. They are not intrinsically evil. They happened to end up in the side opposite you mostly by accident of birth*, and because of the way politics works, their position seems reasonable to them as yours seems to you. Are they wrong on many things? Absolutely. So are progressives.

Reality tells you, over and over again, that it's not enough to boldly declare "We are right! We are better!" and expect a victory to come out. Your reaction to that is to say "But we are right! How could we not win?", every time. And when someone tries to argue some nuance, to point out why things don't quite work like that, you get mad and insult them for being pessimists. That's not how you get progress (You also don't get progress through invoking magic and new age fluff, but that's tangential to the point)

I'm not sure if you've decided to quit for good. I hope you haven't. If you are still here and reading this, chill for a bit and decide how you want to continue this conversation, if at all. Fair warning, don't expect respect for your views if you are are unwilling to grant it to others'.


*and if you think where you were born and who your parents are does not influence your politics, well, that's a whole other argument we need to have.

[clockworkgirl21]

Hoping now we can just talk about the election...

It seems as though Republicans will grab the Senate, as predicted.

[Eiki-mun]

Now to see what they'll do with it.

I expect an impeachment notice by January 21st.

[ironbite]

They don't have the votes to convict.

Ironbite-Majority does not equal conviction.

[Eiki-mun]

They're going to do it anyway, even if they can't convict. Tea party nutjobs.

[Nemo]

Voted for Wendy Davis and Lettica Van de Putte. Now that the polls are closed I am sure the Texas state is still as red as it has been for the last 20 years and we're confirmed 100% hopeless for anything wonderful. In other words, we've tried and we've failed.

You guys must be doing something right if the Texas GOP is scared enough to pass voter suppression laws. They won't be able to hold the demographic shift for much longer...

Keep in mind that the voter suppression isn't necessarily a deliberate goal of "stop voter fraud" laws. One of the biggest issues that the Republicans have right now is Tea Party candidates who sincerely believe the Fox News propaganda. You never want to have people representing you who believe your questionable propaganda and talking points. And right now, many Republican voters are terrified that the Democrats are (somehow) stealing elections.

(click to show/hide)

An example of this that I am willing to apply to myself is how many people in the atheist movement insist that all religion is a deliberate scam to control people. I'll roll my eyes at this generally, but when you have a serious, public debate, and the person representing atheists seems to sincerely believe this over simplified and demonstrably false claim, that doesn't look good on us.

On a tangent, a friend of mine at work (I don't know his leanings) noted my sticker for having voted and said he refused because he didn't like the candidates. Specifically, he noted that the person running for county commissioner (held the job for years, running unopposed) is a freaking lunatic. My friend's father apparently works for the county government and has far too much.... personal insight into this, apparently. And to think, a few weeks ago I was shooting for a job there.

They're going to do it anyway, even if they can't convict. Tea party nutjobs.

Oh yeah. Like I said: the Tea Party believes their own propaganda, in this case, the idea that President Obama has somehow committed some high crime or misdemeanor. Ironically, I would agree that he has sorta done so by signing the NDAA 2012, as well as various other "war on terror" measures, but even if you could legally impeach him for that, Congress would also have to impeach itself for approving of all that stuff.

[ironbite]

Yeah and it'll be the death knell of the Republican party as a whole as the Tea Party nutjobs see that the people they put in Congress can't get the scary brown person out of the White House.  Seriously impeachment is suicide as there is nothing, absolutely nothing, they can impeach him over and it'll stick.  Thanks the Patriot Act, Obama's Teflon.  And when the GOP does this insanely stupid thing and it fails, the Tea Party won't blame the Democrats.  I mean, they're a minority after all.  They'll go after the GOP because they're not Conservative enough.  Sarah Palin will ride that wave like she does her husband's dick, thinking she's a shoe in for a nomination for President.  But all it'll do is split the party.  And Bob's your Uncle, Hiliary's President, Congress goes Blue, and the GOP is in ruins.

Ironbite-2016 can't come fast enough.

[Ultimate Paragon]

Yeah and it'll be the death knell of the Republican party as a whole as the Tea Party nutjobs see that the people they put in Congress can't get the scary brown person out of the White House.  Seriously impeachment is suicide as there is nothing, absolutely nothing, they can impeach him over and it'll stick.  Thanks the Patriot Act, Obama's Teflon.  And when the GOP does this insanely stupid thing and it fails, the Tea Party won't blame the Democrats.  I mean, they're a minority after all.  They'll go after the GOP because they're not Conservative enough.  Sarah Palin will ride that wave like she does her husband's dick, thinking she's a shoe in for a nomination for President.  But all it'll do is split the party.  And Bob's your Uncle, Hiliary's President, Congress goes Blue, and the GOP is in ruins.

Ironbite-2016 can't come fast enough.

Can you say "Pyrrhic Victory"?

[Nemo]

Yeah and it'll be the death knell of the Republican party as a whole as the Tea Party nutjobs see that the people they put in Congress can't get the scary brown person out of the White House.  Seriously impeachment is suicide as there is nothing, absolutely nothing, they can impeach him over and it'll stick.  Thanks the Patriot Act, Obama's Teflon.  And when the GOP does this insanely stupid thing and it fails, the Tea Party won't blame the Democrats.  I mean, they're a minority after all.  They'll go after the GOP because they're not Conservative enough.  Sarah Palin will ride that wave like she does her husband's dick, thinking she's a shoe in for a nomination for President.  But all it'll do is split the party.  And Bob's your Uncle, Hiliary's President, Congress goes Blue, and the GOP is in ruins.

Ironbite-2016 can't come fast enough.

Meh, President Obama didn't sign the Patriot Act, but he chose to extend it. He chose to sign the NDAA. He chose to continue the "War on Terror". His rhetoric is a vast improvement over President Bush, but that's about it.

That said, the Tea Party probably wouldn't be all that opposed to any measures which prosecute foreign sounding people, and I doubt they understand why the NDAA and war on terror is unconstitutional, if they understand that such things are problematic at all. As for 2016, don't brag about how great things are for us and how terrible they are for the Republican Party until Hillary Clinton is actually being sworn in. It all comes down to voter turnout. It is rare for a party to hold the White House for more than eight years, so the Democrats need to run someone who can get people excited to vote. But I honestly don't care too much about 2016. I'm worried about 2020. If the Democrats can win that year (a stretch regardless of how 2016 goes), they can finally undo some of the Republican gerrymandering. What the GOP did to the Democratic districts in my own state of Ohio is almost comedic.

[ironbite]

-Spunki having a stroke-

Only explanation I have.

[Veras]

They're going to do it anyway, even if they can't convict. Tea party nutjobs.

That would be the best thing that could possibly happen for Obama's legacy and the Democratic Party in general.

[Sylvana]

Meh, President Obama didn't sign the Patriot Act, but he chose to extend it. He chose to sign the NDAA. He chose to continue the "War on Terror". His rhetoric is a vast improvement over President Bush, but that's about it.

That said, the Tea Party probably wouldn't be all that opposed to any measures which prosecute foreign sounding people, and I doubt they understand why the NDAA and war on terror is unconstitutional, if they understand that such things are problematic at all. As for 2016, don't brag about how great things are for us and how terrible they are for the Republican Party until Hillary Clinton is actually being sworn in. It all comes down to voter turnout. It is rare for a party to hold the White House for more than eight years, so the Democrats need to run someone who can get people excited to vote. But I honestly don't care too much about 2016. I'm worried about 2020. If the Democrats can win that year (a stretch regardless of how 2016 goes), they can finally undo some of the Republican gerrymandering. What the GOP did to the Democratic districts in my own state of Ohio is almost comedic.

I strongly suspect voter turnout will be low, especially for democrats. Obama basically abused the democratic support base by being more of a republican than Bush was, even after his whole campaign of change. In many ways this has made a lot of people who were hoping for the corrupt moneyed up politics to change to give up and realize that they really only get to choose between red corporates or blue corporates.

As for that gerrymandering, I wouldn't hold your breath, the democrats are weak willed in general and will either leave the districts as is because they honestly dont care, or back down when republicans challenge them about fixing the districts.

Obama did a lot of damage over these last 8 years to the democratic brand, while despite the craziness of the tea party the republican image has remained pretty constant. In some ways the crazy racist homophobic bigoted nut job tea partiers are preferable because as true believers they are at least honest, albeit regressive.

[dpareja]

I'm worried about 2020. If the Democrats can win that year (a stretch regardless of how 2016 goes), they can finally undo some of the Republican gerrymandering. What the GOP did to the Democratic districts in my own state of Ohio is almost comedic.

The thing is, it's not Congress that a party has to win to set Congressional districts, it's the state legislatures. And the districts for the state legislatures are set by those same state legislatures.

[mythbuster43]

I'm happy that my home state of Oregon at least is an oasis from the Red Sea of Fear & Ignorance that's been sweeping over the nation thanks to the combination of an angry, uninformed voter base, the influence of money in politics becoming unlimited, and the demagoguery of the GOP and their sycophants in talk radio, Wingnut blogs, and Fox News. That, and the Democrats spinelessness And inability to stand for something. Even before the 2010 midterms, when the Democrats controlled all three sectors of government, they couldn't get much done because of the obstructionism of the minority GOP. Face it, they're complete cowards who are far to afraid of republicans for their own good.

They can't expect "let's curl up in a ball and hope the GOP nutballs self destruct" to be a working strategy.

[Witchyjoshy]

As my mother put it, "Democrats couldn't keep hold of their dicks if they had superglued them to their hands."