Michigan now Right to Work state.

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

At one of the protests in Michigan conservative "comedian" Steven Crowder was socked in the face:



Of course, there's no reason to resort to violence here. And I'd feel bad for him too, if he weren't Steven Crowder.

[kefkaownsall]

Crowder: Just cause I am against gay marriage doesn't make me a homophobe (in the same video with a gay leprecon in short shorts)

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

Crowder: Just cause I am against gay marriage doesn't make me a homophobe (in the same video with a gay leprecon in short shorts)

And he also did the videos where he dressed as the Prophet Muhammad--with brownface, I might add.

[DasFuchs]

I agree, people shouldn't be forced to join a union.

And those that don't join the union shouldn't get the same benefits the union fought for, which they will...




...Till the unions are gone and then their pay rate will drop like a stone

[rookie]

What if we allowed unions to negotiate for benefits that only go to people who are in the union? Then you can work without belonging to the Union, but you don't get the free rider benefits.

How would you go about doing that? Set up union and non-union wages? I don't think it would work.

It would work easily. Those who join the union would not do so anonymously. You and I are part of the Union of Forum Posters local 674. Our dues come out of our paycheck, we attend our meetings, and because you are the FSTDT delegate, you have my name on your Big Ol' List O' Members. And Distind pays us whatever you negotiated for, along with whatever benefits (health care, pension, and whatever non-workplace benefit you got from him). Reasonator sees the union and for whatever reason says screw this. So now it's up to him to negotiate his own salary and benefits. Set up an open enrollment period yearly like for health insurance. Then Reasonator decides the union isn't so bad after all and joins. You add his name to the list. I decide nope, I'm not getting my money's worth. So now I sit down with Distind and renegotiate my employment.

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

Actually it looks like there might be something fishy about Crowder's video. We'll have to see how this plays out.

[kefkaownsall]

Actually the weirdest thing is while he is homophobic, he is okay with straight pedophiles.  IE he wants to eliminate the minimum marriage age.

[DasFuchs]

What if we allowed unions to negotiate for benefits that only go to people who are in the union? Then you can work without belonging to the Union, but you don't get the free rider benefits.

How would you go about doing that? Set up union and non-union wages? I don't think it would work.

It would work easily. Those who join the union would not do so anonymously. You and I are part of the Union of Forum Posters local 674. Our dues come out of our paycheck, we attend our meetings, and because you are the FSTDT delegate, you have my name on your Big Ol' List O' Members. And Distind pays us whatever you negotiated for, along with whatever benefits (health care, pension, and whatever non-workplace benefit you got from him). Reasonator sees the union and for whatever reason says screw this. So now it's up to him to negotiate his own salary and benefits. Set up an open enrollment period yearly like for health insurance. Then Reasonator decides the union isn't so bad after all and joins. You add his name to the list. I decide nope, I'm not getting my money's worth. So now I sit down with Distind and renegotiate my employment.

And as Distind, for his future pocket thinks "If I pay non union and give them everything the union members have, they'll avoid being in the union". Then union members that don't like paying out go that route too. both combined saps the union till they lose their certification as a union, Distind says "Hey guys, things are getting expensive, PAY CUT". "Still not enough, I'm firing 4. And your benefits are gone"

This is all just union busting bullshit and anyone with half a brain knows it

[booley]

At one of the protests in Michigan conservative "comedian" Steven Crowder was socked in the face:



Of course, there's no reason to resort to violence here. And I'd feel bad for him too, if he weren't Steven Crowder.

Crowder is a professional a-hole.

That's not an insult, that's descriptive.  Like Horowitz and coulter and rush and brietbart, Crowder makes his money by feeding rhetorical fires, making sure everyone gets angry.  The right gets angry at the left and the left just gets angry.

We can have schadenfreude at Crowder getting punched (I'll admit I do)  but lets not forget he got EXACTLY what he wanted.

By the time we figure out what really happened (because apparently the video doesn't show what prompted the punch) it will be too late.

Conservatives will have reinforced their meme that Unions and Liberals are thugs one step away from the mob. And now enough people will be so angry that guys like Crowder will find it even easier to provoke them.

Ironically, the guy who punched him could be a Republican himself. (not as in "false Flag" but in that not all Union members are democrats)

....
And those that don't join the union shouldn't get the same benefits the union fought for, which they will...

...Till the unions are gone and then their pay rate will drop like a stone

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20121212/POLITICS02/212120357/

[Rabbit of Caerbannog]

At one of the protests in Michigan conservative "comedian" Steven Crowder was socked in the face:



Of course, there's no reason to resort to violence here. And I'd feel bad for him too, if he weren't Steven Crowder.

Crowder is a professional a-hole.

That's not an insult, that's descriptive.  Like Horowitz and coulter and rush and brietbart, Crowder makes his money by feeding rhetorical fires, making sure everyone gets angry.  The right gets angry at the left and the left just gets angry.

We can have schadenfreude at Crowder getting punched (I'll admit I do)  but lets not forget he got EXACTLY what he wanted.

By the time we figure out what really happened (because apparently the video doesn't show what prompted the punch) it will be too late.

Conservatives will have reinforced their meme that Unions and Liberals are thugs one step away from the mob. And now enough people will be so angry that guys like Crowder will find it even easier to provoke them.

Ironically, the guy who punched him could be a Republican himself. (not as in "false Flag" but in that not all Union members are democrats)

Oh of course he was trolling for this reaction. If Crowder was consistently taunting the union workers that, of course, still does not give them a right to punch him in his smart mouth--no matter how tempting it is. That is still assault. If he started a physical altercation it would be a different story but I have yet to hear of him doing so. And you're right, the story everyone is now running with on the 24 hour news media is "FOX News Contributer Assaulted by Union Thug", even as the real story is still being worked out. Truly Andrew Breitbart must be proud of this dickweed of a disciple.

[The Illusive Man]

"I definitely provoked them," Crowder said. "I was asking them basic questions."

Sptizley offered one specific anecdote that Crowder disputed. According to Spitzley, Crowder had an exchange with two pro-union men wearing blue jeans, hard hats and Carhartt clothing. One of the men accused Crowder of working for Amway, the family company of Michigan businessman Dick DeVos. Crowder joked that he sells soap.

"He said, 'I sell soap. I should sell you some,'" Spitzley said, quoting Crowder.

Oh please try to sue, I will laugh when his case is thrown out.

[m52nickerson]

This is all just union busting bullshit and anyone with half a brain knows it

Your right it is that.  It is also about individual rights.  There is no law that says the Unions have to put themselves in a position to negotiate all employees.  They could, as it has been suggested, ask for member only contracts.  The reason they don't is because they want to get the money from every employee.  So for me it comes down to if it is right to force someone to pay fees to a Union, which they may not like, just to work a job.  I don't think anyone should.

Now does that means Unions will die?  Perhaps, but if the Union is doing a good job it will survive.  Unions are like everything else, some are good and some are not.

[rookie]

And as Distind, for his future pocket thinks "If I pay non union and give them everything the union members have, they'll avoid being in the union". Then union members that don't like paying out go that route too. both combined saps the union till they lose their certification as a union, Distind says "Hey guys, things are getting expensive, PAY CUT". "Still not enough, I'm firing 4. And your benefits are gone"

And 7 years later when Strawman Inc. has folded, and management along with both union and non union labor are looking for new jobs, everyone will say Das was right. I have a couple questions for you. Should you be forced to pay union dues to work a job? Keep in mind the scarcity of jobs right now. Second question is have you ever been in a union? I have. And it was a very bad union, at least a very bad local chapter. I did not feel I got my money's worth. The delegate was as big a fat cat as any corporate hack stereotype you'd care to mention. The benefits were ok, but they were overpriced by half. And the atmosphere at work was bad. But to keep working there, I had to keep paying my union dues for lackluster results. I'm not saying all unions are like that. But I am saying some are. Honestly, I think Nickerson hit the nail on the head. Good unions will stay. And the bad ones, the ones like I ended up leaving in disgust will fold.

Personally, I don't know why any company would want to operate someplace that is both union and non. It seems like more headache than it's worth.

[DasFuchs]

This is all just union busting bullshit and anyone with half a brain knows it

Your right it is that.  It is also about individual rights.  There is no law that says the Unions have to put themselves in a position to negotiate all employees.  They could, as it has been suggested, ask for member only contracts.  The reason they don't is because they want to get the money from every employee.  So for me it comes down to if it is right to force someone to pay fees to a Union, which they may not like, just to work a job.  I don't think anyone should.

Now does that means Unions will die?  Perhaps, but if the Union is doing a good job it will survive.  Unions are like everything else, some are good and some are not.

you're not looking at the scope though. Employers that don't want unions protecting their employees hire new in like they always do. These new people get the same thing union members do or better to increase the non union momentum. This continues on till the union loses enough support to lose certification. With the union gone, the company is now free to yank what they like.
This "both can exist" stuff is a farce. If you don't want to work for a union, that's fine. Go find a job that isn't unionized.

[m52nickerson]

you're not looking at the scope though. Employers that don't want unions protecting their employees hire new in like they always do. These new people get the same thing union members do or better to increase the non union momentum. This continues on till the union loses enough support to lose certification. With the union gone, the company is now free to yank what they like.
This "both can exist" stuff is a farce. If you don't want to work for a union, that's fine. Go find a job that isn't unionized.

If you don't want a low paying job, that's fine.  Go find a job that pays more.  That the another argument that works the same way.

Also once a company starts yanking, nothing says the employees can't reform the union.