2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries

[Askold]

https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/701157957929668608

...USA, why do you still claim to be Democracy? I mean, I have to admit that this type of "voting" is fitting when you're so close to Vegas but it still seems a bit silly and if the media won't run with this using headlines about "cards being stacked to favour Hillary" or even how the "house always wins" or something I am seriously disappointed.

[Vypernight]

https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/701157957929668608

...USA, why do you still claim to be Democracy? I mean, I have to admit that this type of "voting" is fitting when you're so close to Vegas but it still seems a bit silly and if the media won't run with this using headlines about "cards being stacked to favour Hillary" or even how the "house always wins" or something I am seriously disappointed.

I really hope this is false.  I changed my voting party for the first time ever just so I can vote for Sanders.  If he loses Florida (or the entire primary) because of tricks like this, and I feel my vote no longer counts, I voting in November for myself. 

[SCarpelan]

Bernie also won at least one district when his representative drew the higher card. In a caucus I would prefer additional time for discussion and a new vote, but breaking a tie by drawing lots isn't fundamentally undemocratic. The way the caucus itself was (dis)organized is a bigger issue since the possibility of a human mistake is quite big.

[RavynousHunter]

Honestly...is there any real benefit of a caucus over a real primary?  Because, as it looks to me, we've got a bunch of people in the room shouting shit like a bunch of dumbasses.  Just do a real vote and do tie-breakers by coin toss or something.  Create a god damned standard and enforce it.

[The_Queen]

https://twitter.com/BNONews/status/701157957929668608

...USA, why do you still claim to be Democracy? I mean, I have to admit that this type of "voting" is fitting when you're so close to Vegas but it still seems a bit silly and if the media won't run with this using headlines about "cards being stacked to favour Hillary" or even how the "house always wins" or something I am seriously disappointed.

I really hope this is false.  I changed my voting party for the first time ever just so I can vote for Sanders.  If he loses Florida (or the entire primary) because of tricks like this, and I feel my vote no longer counts, I voting in November for myself. 

How is this any different than breaking a tie by a coin flip?

[Ironchew]

People are getting too worked up over seemingly simple solutions to tiebreakers. No, it wasn't perfectly random. Yes, there is some determinism involved in the setup.

It's good enough that I don't care. We don't need phototubes for quantum levels of randomness here.

[Askold]

How about better counting? Is math illegal in USA?

[Svata]

Or actual primary elections. That might work.

[The_Queen]

How about better counting? Is math illegal in USA?

How about better reading comprehension? Is reading difficult in Finland? Does all that sitting in an igloo, lighting tires on fire affect your ability to read?

It was a tie. The precinct has to give it's delegate to one of the two candidates. Nevada's tie-breaking procedure has representatives of the candidates draw cards. As it was in Iowa, I doubt that a few of these tie-breakers here or there seriously affected the end-delegate apportionment. It's not like states are willy-nilly saying "oh, let us flip coins and draw cards to decide your delegate total." It is purely what they do in the result of a tie vote among the local electorate to send a representative or an answer to the next level of delegate apportionment. The concept really isn't that outrageous.

[SCarpelan]

Yeah. Since there is nobody whose vote is the tie breaker the ties need to be resolved in some other way. A coin toss can be subjectively seen as a more transparent way but that can be manipulated as well. It's simply not practical to cheat: to gain any practical benefit from it the cheating would have to be so organized and widespread that the risk of getting caught is way too big compared to the advantage you get.

If you want to find an actually outrageous example of a coin toss solving a political gridlock - not even an actual tie - just search how the issue of criminalizing weed was solved back in the day by the Finnish politicians.

[ironbite]

I'd just as soon do away with the caucus system as is and just do a straight up primary.

Ironbite-but then again I'm an advocate for the Bern Lord Sanders so what do I know?

[The_Queen]

I'd just as soon do away with the caucus system as is and just do a straight up primary.

Ironbite-but then again I'm an advocate for the Bern Lord Sanders so what do I know?

I doubt you'll be singing the same song in dance in a few months. The final apportionment of these delegates is very dependent on enthusiasm of supporters. Hillary won Nevada in 2008, but lost the delegate count to Obama. Ron Paul won the delegate count for both Nevada and Iowa in 2012, IIRC, while not wining the popular vote, or anything near the popular vote, in either.

But then again, you're an advocate for the Bern Lord Sanders, so what do you know?

[dpareja]

Honestly...is there any real benefit of a caucus over a real primary?

The argument I generally hear put forward is that since in a caucus all the voters gather in one place at one time, it gives supporters one last opportunity to persuade the voters to support their candidate.

[Vypernight]

How is this any different than breaking a tie by a coin flip?

I'm pretty sure that was proven false.  In fact I hope they both were.  I don't care how close the votes are; I don't like the idea of our country's future, and whether we have to look forward to another recession or worse, being decided by a game of chance.

[Askold]

How is this any different than breaking a tie by a coin flip?

I'm pretty sure that was proven false.  In fact I hope they both were.  I don't care how close the votes are; I don't like the idea of our country's future, and whether we have to look forward to another recession or worse, being decided by a game of chance.

The coin flips happened, but they weren't the only thing that allowed Hillary to win. They simply decided the outcome in few locations with a coin flip and Sanders won some of those.