Author Topic: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries  (Read 101169 times)

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Offline The_Queen

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #75 on: February 22, 2016, 10:45:17 am »


How is this any different than breaking a tie by a coin flip?

I'm pretty sure that was proven false.  In fact I hope they both were.  I don't care how close the votes are; I don't like the idea of our country's future, and whether we have to look forward to another recession or worse, being decided by a game of chance.

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Offline Vypernight

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #76 on: February 23, 2016, 07:16:06 am »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BYZzzxn4hU

Once again, I hope this is false.  The more I hear about dirty tricks to help Clinton, the more I'd rather vote for myself in November if she wins the primary.
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Offline The_Queen

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #77 on: February 23, 2016, 07:21:55 am »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BYZzzxn4hU

Once again, I hope this is false.  The more I hear about dirty tricks to help Clinton, the more I'd rather vote for myself in November if she wins the primary.

There are no dirty trick, and is so, then the burden of proof is on you to establish.

And, there are countless ways that Hillary would be better than the alternative, and I am sure if you calmed down a little, then you could see this.
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Offline Vypernight

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #78 on: February 23, 2016, 08:00:32 am »
The problem is that; 'countless' as in how much $ she's receiving from Wall Street etc.  If someone can convince me that she actually will regulate them and follow the will of the people so we don't end up in yet another recession, I'll be more 'calm.'

"Vote for me I have a vagina" doesn't cut it.
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Offline The_Queen

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #79 on: February 23, 2016, 02:23:06 pm »
The problem is that; 'countless' as in how much $ she's receiving from Wall Street etc.  If someone can convince me that she actually will regulate them and follow the will of the people so we don't end up in yet another recession, I'll be more 'calm.'

"Vote for me I have a vagina" doesn't cut it.

1. Nobody said to vote her for cause vagina, but nice side-track.
2. She has the same chance of regulating Wall Street as Sanders, and that chance just got a lot better with the passing of Scalia. Obama acceepted corporate money, why should we accept that Hillary would govern any different than Obama.
3. You mention, "The more I hear about dirty tricks to help Clinton" while making no mention of what these dirty tricks are outside of getting corporate donations.
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Offline nickiknack

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #80 on: February 23, 2016, 03:52:16 pm »
The problem is that she seen as not being trustworthy to people because her "political evolution" seems to come with the ever blowing wind. I don't blame people for this, I feel the same way. The Democratic party has been selling out the ideas of the New Deal for quite some time, and it's sad.  I don't really trust Hillary on a lot of issues, but as an child of New Deal Democrats, the Clintons have left a bad taste in our mouths, while I've been paying attention to what Bernie has to say for about a decade, and it's been the the same message then as it is now.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 04:43:49 pm by nickiknack »

Offline Damen

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #81 on: February 23, 2016, 04:02:44 pm »
So, typically, I've been trying to stay out of this discussion for much the same reason I avoid gun threads; it's just a source of drama.

However, there are reasons I won't vote for Hillary. First, there's the ongoing email investigation. Second, there's the fact that some of her top donators are lobbyists for the private prison industry and she only pledged to stop taking their money after she was caught with her hand in the cookie jar. She was on the board of Wal-Mart for 6 years and said nothing as the company started union busting. She touts her "foreign policy experience" and defended her actions urging an invasion in Libya. What happened as a result of ousting Gadhafi? It created a political power vacuum that allowed al Qaeda and fucking ISIS to come in and set up shop. And while, yes, I dislike guilt by association, let's just say I'm skeptical when you have Donald Trump giving over $100,000 dollars to her foundation and inviting her to (one of) his weddings. There's also the fact that she's outright refusing to consider single payer healthcare pretty much ensures that underemployed people remain flapping in the wind. I can barely afford to eat, so how can I afford to cough up monthly insurance payments? Hillary Clinton doesn't know how to negotiate, either. She is so caught up in her "pragmatism" that she's forgotten that in politics, if you ask for a mile, you might get an inch if you're lucky and scream loud enough. But if you go in asking for an inch because you think they'll likely agree to that, you get a handful of wishes and pixie dust. So her only asking for a $12 dollar minimum wage will be shot down and we'll get absolutely nothing because she'll have nothing to fall back on. You have to go in asking for the moon while the other side says you get nothing and work your way from there. And while I don't frown at a politician for changing a position or stance, as Nickiknack said, she is a ship without a rudder. She's "evolved" more than a Pokemon at this point and I absolutely do not trust her to look out for any interests other than her own.

As for no one saying to vote for Hillary because she has a vagina? No offense, Queen, but yes they have.
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Offline davedan

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #82 on: February 23, 2016, 05:01:08 pm »
Once again it is a crying shame that the democratic nomination is not the actual presidential campaign. However should your preferred democratic candidate not win the nomination, please still vote in the presidential election for the democrats. The rest of the world is still recovering from the last time you guys voted in republican.

Offline ironbite

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #83 on: February 23, 2016, 05:02:18 pm »
Boom.

Offline The_Queen

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #84 on: February 23, 2016, 05:12:19 pm »
As for no one saying to vote for Hillary because she has a vagina? No offense, Queen, but yes they have.

* The_Queen facepalms

So, not FQA. Not FQA. Not FQA. Not FQA... Nice try. That is as asinine as me saying that Nicki and Ironbite vote for Bernie due to sexism and citing to BernieBros on Reddit and 4-chan. Or finding the liberal white saviors in the Cult of Bernie and use them to portray posters on here as having racial bias. Just because some idiot on the internet says that does not mean that it is being argued as a legitimate point between people here.

Nobody on here has said "vote for Hillary because vagina." That said, as often as it has been said about her supporters relative to how ofter her supporters on here say that concerns me. Why is the notion that Hillary gets vote because vagina any more concerning than Bernie getting votes cause of dick or Jewish? Or Ted getting Hispanic vote? Or Carson getting the black vote? When so many posters on here have mentioned "vote Hillary because Vagina" but no one argues that point, it seems to me to be a subtle sexism. It implies that unlike Cruz, Carson, or Bernie, Hillary is not qualified to be President, and she must get this support for some other reason (i.e. vagina). It makes her supporters jump through an additional hoop of verifying that they aren't voting for her because of her gender while not being equally employed to any other candidate. It is also simply not true, as she is the most experienced candidate running. Aside from experience, there are plenty of reasons to support Hillary that do not involve her genitals, and I've more than articulated them for the past several months. Anyone that is not familiar with them has deliberately been ignoring those points. Often times, after I post, Nicki tells me to crawl back into Hillary's vagina or something along those lines.

That said, I do not have any problem with those who vote for her for vagina. Not my style, but nevertheless, one of the most salient points I heard someone make after Obama was elected was that "now I can look my son in the eyes, tell him that you can be anything that you want to be, and mean it." Obama's election was revolutionary from a social perspective and will be taught in history classes as one of the defining, and indeed revolutionary, moments of our generation. Electing Hillary, (assuming she wins) would be nothing short of the same level of revolutionary.* Today, 1 in 5 women will be sexually assaulted, women will be paid 78% of a man for the same work, and women will often be overlooked for promotions while being more qualified. The fact that Hillary made it this far, as a women, speaks a lot to her inner courage. Similarly, because it is easier to follow a trail that has been cleared, Hillary would embolden a nation of young women in much the same way that Obama has emboldened a nation of young African-Americans (indeed, there are 9 year old black children who have known nothing but an African-American first family, and that matters).

I think that revolution, in particular the kind that Bernie speaks of, belies itself when it is narrowly interpreted to support one candidate, as opposed to the broader understanding of what our society is and how it can be improved.

*While Bernie calls her "establishment," he also calls Planned Parenthood "establishment." Women's health needs are so establishment... But, I don't think that word means what he thinks it means.

Once again it is a crying shame that the democratic nomination is not the actual presidential campaign. However should your preferred democratic candidate not win the nomination, please still vote in the presidential election for the democrats. The rest of the world is still recovering from the last time you guys voted in republican.

Too hard. Let's be short-cited and vindictive to ensure a GOP clowns win.

Once again, I hope this is false.  The more I hear about dirty tricks to help Clinton, the more I'd rather vote for myself in November if she wins the primary.

And once again, all of this is terribly tangential as I am trying to figure out with specificity what "dirty tricks" are being pulled, and by whom, to help Clinton.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 05:25:40 pm by The_Queen »
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Offline mellenORL

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #85 on: February 23, 2016, 06:11:42 pm »
Just to reassure Lord Cracker, yes, I think it's safe to say even Nicki would vote Hillary if she becomes the nominee. The GOP roster hasn't a single less-than-toxic alternative. I do hope that if she gets the nomination that she does in fact choose Sanders as her running mate, because that would keep the momentum going enough to get the youth and disenfranchised voters out to the fucking polls.
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Offline nickiknack

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #86 on: February 23, 2016, 06:49:30 pm »
Yeah, I live in a pretty safe blue state, so I have wiggle room, and I intend on going Green if Hillary is the nom. I'm probably going to change my party affiliation also, was seriously considering it before Bernie threw his hat into the ring.

Offline mellenORL

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #87 on: February 23, 2016, 06:50:33 pm »
Ah, I stand corrected.
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Offline The_Queen

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #88 on: February 23, 2016, 07:08:22 pm »
Don't care, if Hillary doesn't win, I'm voting for Trump because vindictiveness. It's simple and ignores pragmatism and nuance.
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Offline davedan

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #89 on: February 23, 2016, 07:12:07 pm »
You know on the Republican side it is going to be Trump, Cruz or Rubio. Or in D&D terms, Chaotic Evil, Neutral Evil and Lawful Evil.