Author Topic: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries  (Read 101165 times)

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Offline dpareja

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #300 on: April 05, 2016, 12:36:58 am »
http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/04/01/how-hillary-clinton-bought-the-loyalty-of-33-state-democratic-parties/

Welp.

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In August 2015, at the Democratic Party convention in Minneapolis, 33 democratic state parties made deals with the Hillary Clinton campaign and a joint fundraising entity called The Hillary Victory Fund. The deal allowed many of her core billionaire and inner circle individual donors to run the maximum amounts of money allowed through those state parties to the Hillary Victory Fund in New York and the DNC in Washington.

The idea was to increase how much one could personally donate to Hillary by taking advantage of the Supreme Court ruling 2014, McCutcheon v FEC, that knocked down a cap on aggregate limits as to how much a donor could give to a federal campaign in a year. It thus eliminated the ceiling on amounts spent by a single donor to a presidential candidate.

So the DNC is funneling donor money through state parties into a fund known as "The Hillary Victory Fund".

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The fund is administered by treasurer Elizabeth Jones, the Clinton Campaign’s chief operating officer. Ms. Jones has the exclusive right to decide when transfers of money to and from the Hillary Victory Fund would be made to the state parties.

One could reasonably infer that the tacit agreement between the signatories was that the state parties and the Hillary Clinton Campaign would act in unity and mutual support. And that the super-delegates of these various partner states would either pledge loyalty to Clinton, or, at the least, not endorse Senator Sanders. Not only did Hillary’s multi-millionaire and billionaire supporters get to bypass individual campaign donation limits to state parties by using several state parties apparatus, but the Clinton campaign got the added bonus of buying that state’s super-delegates with the promise of contributions to that Democratic organization’s re-election fund.

The state parties participating in this scheme are at the mercy of the Clinton campaign's chief operating officer as to when they get their share of the money from the deal.

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From these large amounts of money being transferred from state coffers to the Hillary Victory Fund in Washington, the Clinton campaign got the first $2,700, the DNC was to get the next $33,400, and the remainder was to be split among the 33 signatory states. With this scheme, the Hillary Victory Fund raised over $26 million for the Clinton Campaign by the end of 2015.
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Offline niam2023

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #301 on: April 05, 2016, 02:11:58 am »
This is functionally no different than those ratfaced Koch Brothers.
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Offline The_Queen

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #302 on: April 05, 2016, 08:47:40 am »
Another good example of spin. Counterpunch isn't a very reliable source to begin with, in my experience, but this is a doozy.

There are aspects of truth to this, but then those truths are used to sprinkle between falsehoods to make them appear true. Hillary, as a national figure and leader of the DNC for 25 years, has great name recognition and is one of the top fundraisers, not only for the DNC, but lower ticket races and state elections. Indeed, Hillary has made no qualms about raising money for the DNC and state races, that they may to spend to win elections for the Democrats and move our nation forward. In fact, Hillary gives a portion of what she raises for her national campaign to the DNC to achieve this end as well. She and Obama did the same in 2008 (so corrupt </jest>). I wouldn't be surprised to find out other big names, such as John Edwards in 2008, followed suit. Bernie, however, does not help raise money or funnel money to these lower ticket races.*

And that is the half truth that the article peddles: Bernie gave $0, Hillary gave XYZ dollars, so the superdelegates are bought off. The problem with this is that it is a federal crime to give a person/entity such money with the intent of influencing support or votes. Ignore that. The other problem is that it conflates fundraising and donations with outright bribes, which is not the case.

The article relies on this mis-characterization, but when it comes time to tie the truth to the falsehoods the article pushes, it does so only with this sentence "One could reasonably infer that the tacit agreement between the signatories was that the state parties and the Hillary Clinton Campaign would act in unity and mutual support." But, looking at 2008 when Hillary and Obama did the same thing; how could a state superdelegate or democratic party accept payments to support and endorse two masters? They can't. This is not money given with the intent to influence votes, but to raise money for lower level contests.

Which ties into a huge point nobody wants to talk about. When asked in debates how Bernie plans to implement his policies, his answer is that the same political revolution that will elect him will elect a like-minded congress. I remain skeptical of such wishful thinking. The Democratic revolution of 2008 was predicated not only discontentment with the GOP, but the DNC funding heavily contested elections that without Obama's and Hillary's fundraising, they might not have won. I saw a funny meme about BernieBros the other day, and it said "if you can name who you support for president, but not your local elected officials, you're not part of a revolution." For better or worse, most Americans know their president. Few know their congressperson or senators. Fewer know their state elected officials. If they don't know these people, how can they support the election of those people? They can't. And this is where big name democrats come in, to help raise money and draw crowds for these people. Hillary has that. Obama has done that. Bernie doesn't. Regardless of how you feel about these two candidates, state-elected officials matter, in particular for things like state minimum wage, access to abortion, up until recently gay marriage, and a host of other things I don't feel like recalling before having my morning tea.

Tl;Dr- The article presents fundraising as bribes to assert that local parties and superdelegates are bought off. However, that is not the case. Instead, Bernie is not following the tradition of using his (newly found) big-name status to assist local politicians in winning local seats.

*And this is one of the things I've harked on before. Hillary is a leader of the DNC who has done right by the DNC for 25 years. Bernie isn't even a democrat and does not do things like this to help win local elections. Hence why the superdelegates flock to Hillary. But, as seen in 2008, their loyalty lasts only about as long as the pledged delegate lead. Democracy is a powerful argument.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 08:53:58 am by The_Queen »
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Offline mellenORL

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #303 on: April 05, 2016, 11:16:32 am »
Insightful rebuttal, Queen. I do take small exception to your opinion about Counter Punch, though. It's been around a very long time, and though certainly the editors skew quite far left, I don't think they're delusional. They are less well known than Mother Jones, but more or less in the same leftist vicinity. Their interpretations are going to be different from that of other media when looking at the same data.

The founder died in 2012, but here's a bio of the current editor and co-founder, which describes a little of the history of the print 'zine and online version:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_St._Clair
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Offline The_Queen

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #304 on: April 05, 2016, 11:47:57 am »
Insightful rebuttal, Queen. I do take small exception to your opinion about Counter Punch, though. It's been around a very long time, and though certainly the editors skew quite far left, I don't think they're delusional. They are less well known than Mother Jones, but more or less in the same leftist vicinity. Their interpretations are going to be different from that of other media when looking at the same data.

The founder died in 2012, but here's a bio of the current editor and co-founder, which describes a little of the history of the print 'zine and online version:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_St._Clair

Far left or far right doesn't affect my criticism of them being less than reliable. What does is that they allow their personal biases to cloud their better judgment, undermining the veracity and integrity of what they publish. They were one of the sources I alluded to when highlighting why I like 538 as a source.
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Offline mellenORL

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #305 on: April 05, 2016, 12:53:19 pm »
I was surprised and intrigued that Margot Kidder was writing articles for a political 'zine. She played Lois Lane in the original Superman with Christopher Reeve. Found another of her pieces for Counter Punch about the Keystone XL pipeline. Interesting read.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/10/07/how-to-grease-a-pipeline/
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Offline The_Queen

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #306 on: April 05, 2016, 05:27:20 pm »
To anyone who thinks the media has seriously vetted Bernie as a candidate, think again. This interview was a disaster, and if Bernie can't think of a way to answer these questions, he is fucked: Hillary is licking her lips after reading this transcript as it gives her a blueprint on the issues to press Bernie on to make him implode on national television.
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Offline mellenORL

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #307 on: April 05, 2016, 06:37:53 pm »
Are you familiar with Dodd-Frank? It's vast.

Here. Dig in.

http://www.sec.gov/about/laws/wallstreetreform-cpa.pdf

Or, read the Cliff Notes.

http://media.mofo.com/files/Uploads/Images/SummaryDoddFrankAct.pdf


Here's a video of Sanders being grilled by the editors of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel a few days ago. Similar questions were asked of him.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P25iloc14o" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P25iloc14o</a>





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Offline The_Queen

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #308 on: April 05, 2016, 08:34:19 pm »
I fail to see the point of your post.

I assume from the context that you are justifying his lackluster answers to key portions of his policy platform by asking if I am familiar with those bills. I am not running for president: I am not presenting Wall Street Reform and breaking up the big banks as THE key policy position of my presidential candidacy. When he cannot answer what executive authority he would have to legislate his agenda, how he would go about implementing his agenda, when he flat out says that he hasn't looked into the potential negative consequences, let alone the legal implications, for I repeat THE key part of his platform... that's quite troubling.

When he calls these people criminals, but can't point out what laws they broke, that is also quite troubling. He is running on a platform of holding big bankers accountable, and he doesn't even know if they broke laws, which is necessary to fix the problem to make sure it doesn't happen again. If no laws are broken, then we need new laws to stop it. If laws were broken, then they need to be aggressively enforced, and knowing those laws is kind of important to aggressively enforcing them. He did a good job getting of this issue by attacking Hillary, calling her establishment,* but no specifics on these key portions of his platform.

*He says that word a lot, like about planned parenthood. I don't think that word means what he thinks it means.
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Offline mellenORL

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #309 on: April 05, 2016, 09:21:03 pm »
His citation that Dodd-Frank provisions enables breakup of the big banks, via Treasury Dept. and other special govt. entities, is correct, nevertheless. It was a major point of the bill. Dodd-Frank had to happen if TARP was to happen. Dodd-Frank and reinstating Glass-Steagall  help prevent another TARP. Otherwise, you betcha, we'll see another crash and a TARP within a generation or two.

Anti trust laws, which the aforementioned are similar to in their purpose, have been effectively used against big companies before, and all those companies' principals and most employee positions survived in their new subsidiary formats. The action has to be applied periodically, though. AT&T, for one historical example, managed to influence politically and monetarily and clump back together as a huge telecom company after being busted up a few decades ago. Dodd-Frank is basically a pair of pruning shears. The overgrown trees likely to crash branches down through the roof will over-grow again if we're not vigilant.
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Offline ironbite

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #310 on: April 05, 2016, 10:12:06 pm »
And Sanders takes Wisconsin from Hilary.

Ironbite-whoop there it is.

Offline The_Queen

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #311 on: April 05, 2016, 11:02:33 pm »
His citation that Dodd-Frank provisions enables breakup of the big banks, via Treasury Dept. and other special govt. entities, is correct, nevertheless. It was a major point of the bill. Dodd-Frank had to happen if TARP was to happen. Dodd-Frank and reinstating Glass-Steagall  help prevent another TARP. Otherwise, you betcha, we'll see another crash and a TARP within a generation or two.

But the fact that he couldn't answer these questions at the heart of his candidacy is simply astounding. The fact that he has not given thought to negative consequences is no less perplexing. Finally, he flat-out said he hasn't considered the legal ramifications, which is important for legislating actual change. If Obama just passed the first health care bill that came to mind, SCoTUS would tell him to eat a dick.

And also this is one of the big reasons that I dislike Sanders. It's one thing for him to want to regulate Wall Street: I fucking agree with that. It's another thing to give simple solutions to complex problems. Fact is, the repeal of Glass-Steagall had little to do with the crash in 2008. Turns out, allowing banks to diversify their assets between commercial and investment banking helped them weather the storm. The biggest banks, like Lehman Brothers and Bear Sterans, were exclusively investment banks. Instead, more of the blame for the crash can be given to the Commodity Futures Modernization Act. This bill, among other Wall Street deregulations, literally blocked federal agencies from investigating credit-default swaps, which were at the heart of the financial crisis. Now, if a layperson like myself could look into the financial crisis and figure out the real reason that it occurred, it really does beg the question, "why can't Bernie do this?" In fact, as a political insider of Washington for almost 30 years, he witnessed this bill pass; I had to read about this bill almost a decade after the fact. The cynical answer as to why he doesn't cite this bill: Bernie isn't as anti-Wall Street as he likes to say he is. I've known about the bill and its effect for years, I've known for months that he voted for it, and when I said earlier that I hold back a lot of my criticisms of Bernie, I meant it. As a policy wonk, simple answers bother me, a lot.


Anti trust laws, which the aforementioned are similar to in their purpose, have been effectively used against big companies before, and all those companies' principals and most employee positions survived in their new subsidiary formats. The action has to be applied periodically, though. AT&T, for one historical example, managed to influence politically and monetarily and clump back together as a huge telecom company after being busted up a few decades ago. Dodd-Frank is basically a pair of pruning shears. The overgrown trees likely to crash branches down through the roof will over-grow again if we're not vigilant.

And now you're conflating two separate things. To my understanding, Dodd-Frank is not an anti-trust law: these banks, while huge, do not own monopolies in the traditional sense. True, a handful of banks own a lot of assets, but the other banks are still competitive in the market. This distinguishes it from a standard monopoly in that these banks are not being broken up for possessing a vast majority of the market share, but for being too profitable.* While breaking banks is something I support, doing it in a manner that survives SCOTUS scrutiny is more important. The fact that he says he hasn't even looked into the legal implications of this leaves me flabbergasted.

Further, after reading the cliffnotes of Dodd-Frank that you gave me, and cross-referencing it against the bill, I am a bit confused. From everything that I have read, Dodd-Frank does not appear to give the Secretary of Treasury the ability to bust up "too-big-to-fail" banks. Instead, my reading indicates that it gives federal agencies the ability to oversee and regulate the investment decisions of these banks. To my understanding, the crux of the bill ignores the "too-big-to" part, instead focusing on the "fail." I guess what I am trying to say is that, to my understanding, a bank could have assets of $50 Trillion (ignoring anti-trust issues) and still abide by the law in such a way that would not open itself up to any sort of adverse action from the government. So, if you would not mind pointing me to the portion of the statute that explicitly gives the Secretary of the treasury the ability to break up a bank for being "too-big-to-fail" (with nothing more) I would really appreciate it.

*I hate to phrase it this way as it sounds conservative, but that is essentially what is being argued: a bank should not be broken up for possessing too much of a market share vis-a-vis their competition, but a number of banks should be broken up for having too many assets.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 11:26:14 pm by The_Queen »
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Offline The_Queen

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #312 on: April 06, 2016, 10:08:26 pm »
To me Clinton seems like she's had a mediocre economic record and a terrible foreighn policy record.

No, this wasn't relevant to the subject at hand.

It is, but I've given up on getting responses.
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Offline ironbite

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #313 on: April 06, 2016, 10:51:02 pm »
I'm under no illusions what'll happen if Hilary is the nom instead of Sanders.  I'd rather the snake I know then the tornado that is Trump.

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Offline Skybison

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Re: 2016 Democratic Presidential Primaries
« Reply #314 on: April 07, 2016, 12:25:53 am »
I confess I don't know much about Hillary Clinton's foreign policy, I know she was an advocate of intervention in Libya but that's about it.  What's so much worse about her then Bill or Obama?