FSTDT Forums
Community => Religion and Philosophy => Topic started by: gyeonghwa on February 03, 2012, 02:49:58 pm
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http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/one-towns-war-on-gay-teens-20120202
It's a pretty long read with a few horrifying stories.
TL;DR
Bachmann's district basically does not allow the discussion of homosexuality in school by support from evangelical groups. Which in turns means that bullying goes unregulated and becomes so rampant that suicide rates goes up. And some of the kids aren't even gay, they're just perceived to be gay. But since their have a no discussion policy, evangelical bullies are given free reigns to do whatever they want. Anti-gay groups do not thing but rather show this as "proof" that the gay "lifestyle" is unhealthy, rather than addressing the real problem of uncontrolled harassment in the name of "neutrality".
The stories told within are sad and horrifying. I wish we could just take those kids to a safer place.
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*is too full of RAEG to form a coherent response*
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I... ugh... gr... I ... arghhh.
Just... ugh. I wish I could take all the abused kids and take them to a sheltered area.
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Everyone does.
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I... ugh... gr... I ... arghhh.
Just... ugh. I wish I could take all the abused kids and take them to a sheltered area.
I wish we could take over the school board and then patrol the shcool halls with cluebats.
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*is too full of RAEG to form a coherent response*
Then please don't read the article. It will bring you to tears.
I've read that suicides were high in Bachmann's district and that it was because of their "no homo promo" policy, but words can't describe how bad it really is. It really hurts me reading stories like these. In this school district, in one school year, 9 gay or gay perceived children committed suicide and many other children attempted suicide or were hospitalized for suicidal tendencies. No child should be bullied to such a level. No child should be bullied at all. The PAL, the children, the school board, and especially Michelle Bachmann should be ashamed of themselves for their actions which led to these 9 deaths, and the many others from years before.
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Remember, not too long ago Bachmann claimed focusing on curbing bullying would emasculate boys.
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Not to derail this thread with ponies, but I can only imagine what this cunt thinks of My Little Pony and the brony fanbase.
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*is too full of RAEG to form a coherent response*
Then please don't read the article. It will bring you to tears.
I've read that suicides were high in Bachmann's district and that it was because of their "no homo promo" policy, but words can't describe how bad it really is. It really hurts me reading stories like these. In this school district, in one school year, 9 gay or gay perceived children committed suicide and many other children attempted suicide or were hospitalized for suicidal tendencies. No child should be bullied to such a level. No child should be bullied at all. The PAL, the children, the school board, and especially Michelle Bachmann should be ashamed of themselves for their actions which led to these 9 deaths, and the many others from years before.
I did read the article. That's where I got the RAEG.
And I might add that shit like this is why I lost faith in the Christian community's ability to change the world for the better. They treat an entire 10 percent of the human population like crap and for no logical reason. Oh, there's the usual horseshit arguments about how homosexuality is bad for society, but the truth is that this school board and others like it are promoting anti-gay policies just because homosexuality is against their religion.
And to blame these suicides on "the Gay Lifestyle" and use them as an excuse to tighten their grip even further? That's cold. In fact, that's -274 degrees Celsius cold. I'm disgusted.
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With the adults thus distracted by endless policy discussions, the entire district became a place of dread for students. Every time a loudspeaker crackled in class, kids braced themselves for the feared preamble, "We've had a tragic loss." Students spoke in hushed tones; some wept openly in the halls. "It had that feeling of a horror movie – everyone was talking about death," says one 16-year-old student who broke down at Anoka High School one day and was carted off to a psychiatric hospital for suicidal ideation. Over the course of the 2010-2011 school year, 700 students were evaluated for serious mental-health issues, including hospitalizations for depression and suicide attempts. Kids flooded school counselors' offices, which reported an explosion of children engaging in dangerous behaviors like cutting or asphyxiating each other in the "choking game."
700? Why in the goddamn hell haven't these administrators been fired and arrested? Why the hell hasn't anyone launched a criminal investigation?
Jesus fucking Christ, 700 is about 75% of the population of my entire high school.
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With the adults thus distracted by endless policy discussions, the entire district became a place of dread for students. Every time a loudspeaker crackled in class, kids braced themselves for the feared preamble, "We've had a tragic loss." Students spoke in hushed tones; some wept openly in the halls. "It had that feeling of a horror movie – everyone was talking about death," says one 16-year-old student who broke down at Anoka High School one day and was carted off to a psychiatric hospital for suicidal ideation. Over the course of the 2010-2011 school year, 700 students were evaluated for serious mental-health issues, including hospitalizations for depression and suicide attempts. Kids flooded school counselors' offices, which reported an explosion of children engaging in dangerous behaviors like cutting or asphyxiating each other in the "choking game."
700? Why in the goddamn hell haven't these administrators been fired and arrested? Why the hell hasn't anyone launched a criminal investigation?
Jesus fucking Christ, 700 is about 75% of the population of my entire high school.
Because the schools launched fake investigations and then said "Nope, nothing to do with bullying or the policies on how we treat the topic of LGBTs".
There isn't enough cleansing fire in the world for this bullshit.
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Which is why we send these idiots into the sun!
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Remember, not too long ago Bachmann claimed focusing on curbing bullying would emasculate boys.
That statement ALONE, even if the gay suicides weren't taking place, would be rage-worthy. Bullying is BAD, period.
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Bachmann's a Muslim fundie. The only reason she's against Shia law is she doesn't want to cover her face, though so many wished she would.
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Disgusting. Barb Andersen, if I ever meet you in person, I will tear out your jaw.
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What the fuck is this horseshit? They get exactly what they wanted, & they still blame the gays when it doesn't work. How the fuck do they think that's normal? For 7 years, I never ONCE heard of a student of my school committing suicide, & they're pushing for a dozen in 2!
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There are no words for what I want to do to the people behind this. None at all. None beyond pure rage.
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I couldn't bring myself to finish the article.
I just...
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...There are no words to describe the rage I feel after reading that.
Edit: Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr[snip]rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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Disgusting. Barb Andersen, if I ever meet you in person, I will tear out your jaw.
And nothing of value will be lost.
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Disgusting. Barb Andersen, if I ever meet you in person, I will tear out your jaw.
And nothing of value will be lost.
Actually, a good deal of perfectly usable blood will be lost. But otherwise, yeah.
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"Every time you said goodbye to a friend, you felt like, 'Is this the last time I'm going to see you?'"
This is too much. I've known about victims of bullying committing suicide for years, and yet, this had never crossed my mind until now. And the realization hits you like a sack of bricks. What if you wake up one day to find out that your best friend has just killed themselves? It was the most depressing sentence of the article by far, the reason that the story is so far removed from all of the other fucked up stories about teen suicide, living in its own category of horrifying first-hand accounts, and it's a sentence that is never going to leave my mind.
Someone in Minnesota needs to speak up loud and clear and they need to do it now.
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I read that article a few days ago after a friend posted it on twitter. So sad. I was crying and raging by the time I finished it. I couldn't stand to be a teacher in that district and not do anything. I don't understand why none of the teachers did anything. They see what's going on, but they're too afraid of losing their jobs to stand up for what's right. I do get that mentality- jobs are scarce. But after the first kid died, didn't anyone start to think that maybe there are more important things in life than "I'm just doing my job"? LIke the Doctor said when someone told him that, "And with that you lost every right to speak to me."
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVu949oYnXg
-CK YOU BACHMANN AND COMPANY!!!
I read that article a few days ago after a friend posted it on twitter. So sad. I was crying and raging by the time I finished it. I couldn't stand to be a teacher in that district and not do anything. I don't understand why none of the teachers did anything. They see what's going on, but they're too afraid of losing their jobs to stand up for what's right. I do get that mentality- jobs are scarce. But after the first kid died, didn't anyone start to think that maybe there are more important things in life than "I'm just doing my job"? LIke the Doctor said when someone told him that, "And with that you lost every right to speak to me."
Consider the community, the teachers probably agree with the policies.
The vile trash that support this shit are too low to be called scum, as that would be an unforgivable insult to pond algae. I tried to find a pony/lolcat image to respond with to cheer the thread up even a little bit, but none convey the RAGE, but lack of surprise, I feel right now. I'm serious when I say someone should die in a fire over this.
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I can't read more than the first story. I'll be in bed, sobbing.
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I lost it several times - first when Justin took the plunge because....well, I knew it was coming but I wanted to hope he'd end up being one of the lucky ones...his mom and my mom share a name... I lost it again when his kid brother almost killed himself "to be with big bro again" and the story at the end reminded me of something I read in a child development text about a boy "wanting to be the kind of son his parents would love, to have friends, and to not be sad all the time"
If I ever meet Bachmann, or ANY of the worthless trash responsible on the street - the results will not be televised (jaw ripping at a minimum, beating them with their broken jaw is likely). Like I said in the IRC - not even an angry dimension will cover this one - you need to create an entire new iteration of reality and step inside it.
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I lost it several times - first when Justin took the plunge because....well, I knew it was coming but I wanted to hope he'd end up being one of the lucky ones...his mom and my mom share a name... I lost it again when his kid brother almost killed himself "to be with big bro again" and the story at the end reminded me of something I read in a child development text about a boy "wanting to be the kind of son his parents would love, to have friends, and to not be sad all the time"
If I ever meet Bachmann, or ANY of the worthless trash responsible on the street - the results will not be televised (jaw ripping at a minimum, beating them with their broken jaw is likely). Like I said in the IRC - not even an angry dimension will cover this one - you need to create an entire new iteration of reality and step inside it.
Beat them to death with their own skull... wait how did you do that?
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Shit. The dystopian nightmare is real. *punches pillows*
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I finally forced myself to finish the damn thing. I... I still can't describe how I feel... my stomach is twisting, my heart is aching, and the urge to cry is irresistible.
Why can't they just leave us alone?
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I finally forced myself to finish the damn thing. I... I still can't describe how I feel... my stomach is twisting, my heart is aching, and the urge to cry is irresistible.
Why can't they just leave us alone?
Because humans are bastards. We're hardwired to be assholes to anyone not like us. There's a reason I like dogs more than most humans, they don't care who you are. Male or female, straight or gay, tall or short, young or old, Gandhi or Hitler, they will love you regardless.
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I finally forced myself to finish the damn thing. I... I still can't describe how I feel... my stomach is twisting, my heart is aching, and the urge to cry is irresistible.
Why can't they just leave us alone?
Because humans are bastards. We're hardwired to be assholes to anyone not like us. There's a reason I like dogs more than most humans, they don't care who you are. Male or female, straight or gay, tall or short, young or old, Gandhi or Hitler, they will love you regardless.
There's even a TV Tropes (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HumansAreBastards) page pointing out just how much humans are bastards, although they exclude RL examples to avoid flame wars.
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Actually, a good deal of perfectly usable blood will be lost. But otherwise, yeah.
It's probably acid.
It was the most depressing sentence of the article by far, the reason that the story is so far removed from all of the other fucked up stories about teen suicide, living in its own category of horrifying first-hand accounts, and it's a sentence that is never going to leave my mind.
Oh, that was FAR from the only phrase that was like that in this article.
Why can't they just leave us alone?
Honestly, same reason the kids are killing themselves. The fact that the authority figures have created this mess causes kids to internalize it as "gay is bad." For the kids who are or are perceived of as being gay, this means they feel worthless & depressed. For the kids doing the abusing, it makes them feel justified in what they are doing.
There are other factors, & that hardly absolves them, but seriously, fuck Michelle Bachman & Barb Anderson. What arguably pisses me off the most is that the lawsuit is only designed to get monetary compensation & change the system, because that's all they can do. But, if you ask me, some of these--people--are getting away with murder.
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Their response to the wave of suicides... After claiming there was no link to bullying, that is.
Just to be on the safe side, however, the district held PowerPoint presentations in a handful of schools to train teachers how to defend gay students from harassment while also remaining neutral on homosexuality. One slide instructed teachers that if they hear gay slurs – say, the word "fag" – the best response is a tepid "That language is unacceptable in this school." ("If a more authoritative response is needed," the slide added, the teacher could continue with the stilted, almost apologetic explanation, "In this school we are required to welcome all people and to make them feel safe.") But teachers were, of course, reminded to never show "personal support for GLBT people" in the classroom.
AAAAARGH! VOI JEESUKSEN PERSEEN VISVASYYLÄ! Why didn't the computers melt when they typed that?! JUMALAUTA! Is that the best they can do?! SAATANAN KUSIPÄÄT!
That article was horrifying and it just kept getting worse page after page. Even after they were forced to change their policy they still didn't learn, they just came up with a new name and slightly watered down rules. And even that made people complain about "gay activists getting it all." PERKELE!
ATTACHMENT: THE NEW POLICY
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There are other factors, & that hardly absolves them, but seriously, fuck Michelle Bachman & Barb Anderson. What arguably pisses me off the most is that the lawsuit is only designed to get monetary compensation & change the system, because that's all they can do. But, if you ask me, some of these--people--are getting away with murder.
It should be no less than wrongful death lawsuits against the fundies on the school board and any positively identified bullies (and their parents).
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I lost it several times - first when Justin took the plunge because....well, I knew it was coming but I wanted to hope he'd end up being one of the lucky ones...his mom and my mom share a name... I lost it again when his kid brother almost killed himself "to be with big bro again" and the story at the end reminded me of something I read in a child development text about a boy "wanting to be the kind of son his parents would love, to have friends, and to not be sad all the time
This part churned my stomach and brought me to tears. Even 8 hours after reading it when I was at work, I remembered that line and had to find a place to sneak off to so I could regain my composure :'( :'(
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askold's so upset he's devolved into speaking Finnish.
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I say we hurl all of the people responsible for this monstrosity into the sun. What a bunch of poisonous, despicable bastards. That these people can live with themselves after witnessing the end result of their actions - and that they have the bold-faced temerity to try and distance themselves from taking responsibility - is horrific. They're paying for the indulgence of their own ignorance with the lives of little kids, and they have the gall to whine about it?!
Fuck this, and fuck them.
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askold's so upset he's devolved into speaking Finnish.
devolved?
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I lost it several times - first when Justin took the plunge because....well, I knew it was coming but I wanted to hope he'd end up being one of the lucky ones...his mom and my mom share a name... I lost it again when his kid brother almost killed himself "to be with big bro again" and the story at the end reminded me of something I read in a child development text about a boy "wanting to be the kind of son his parents would love, to have friends, and to not be sad all the time"
If I ever meet Bachmann, or ANY of the worthless trash responsible on the street - the results will not be televised (jaw ripping at a minimum, beating them with their broken jaw is likely). Like I said in the IRC - not even an angry dimension will cover this one - you need to create an entire new iteration of reality and step inside it.
...well, you know, Samson did beat the shit out of hundreds of Palestinians with the jawbone of an ass. I'm sure you can do the same to these fuckheads. >.>
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Fuck Bachmann and her Terror State. Seriously, just fuck them.
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askold's so upset he's devolved into speaking Finnish.
devolved?
Yes. I may be using an outdated definition tho and couldn't grasp the current term. I did not mean it in a negative manner. I am having trouble with words right now. :C
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askold's so upset he's devolved into speaking Finnish.
devolved?
Yes. I may be using an outdated definition tho and couldn't grasp the current term. I did not mean it in a negative manner. I am having trouble with words right now. :C
No no, I was making a funny because I dislike English despite it being my primary language :V
It wasn't meant as a thing against you.
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Fairy Nuff.
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askold's so upset he's devolved into speaking Finnish.
devolved?
Yes. I may be using an outdated definition tho and couldn't grasp the current term. I did not mean it in a negative manner. I am having trouble with words right now. :C
No no, I was making a funny because I dislike English despite it being my primary language :V
It wasn't meant as a thing against you.
But but English! What other languages can you use the word "fuck" as an infix! :P
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I'm waiting for someone to try to tell me that all of these people were actually from some other town/state/country & just moved there recently. It seems to be every Fundie's defense of persecution.
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שמן ממזר בן-זונה
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askold's so upset he's devolved into speaking Finnish.
devolved?
Yes. I may be using an outdated definition tho and couldn't grasp the current term. I did not mean it in a negative manner. I am having trouble with words right now. :C
No no, I was making a funny because I dislike English despite it being my primary language :V
It wasn't meant as a thing against you.
But but English! What other languages can you use the word "fuck" as an infix! :P
Swearing in English is fine if you want to add a bit of emphasis or humour to an expression. For expressing rage, though, I find English swearing quite inadequate compared to Finnish. I've heard that Russian is even better for swearing creatively which makes me wish that I knew the language so I could express properly how the article made me feel. I couldn't make myself read it through in one sitting.
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At what point is it okay to turn these assholes into the persecuted minority they no doubt think themselves to be? If you're so fucked in the head that you can justify terrorizing children because of something they can't help, I will have no sympathy when someone snaps and burns your church down. Hell, I'll provide the lighter fluid and bring some marshmallows, cuz fuck you.
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Myeh, I feel like going out there and beating up some of the fundy teens who made life miserable for those gay kids.
Maybe form a self defense group.
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askold's so upset he's devolved into speaking Finnish.
devolved?
Yes. I may be using an outdated definition tho and couldn't grasp the current term. I did not mean it in a negative manner. I am having trouble with words right now. :C
No no, I was making a funny because I dislike English despite it being my primary language :V
It wasn't meant as a thing against you.
But but English! What other languages can you use the word "fuck" as an infix! :P
Swearing in English is fine if you want to add a bit of emphasis or humour to an expression. For expressing rage, though, I find English swearing quite inadequate compared to Finnish. I've heard that Russian is even better for swearing creatively which makes me wish that I knew the language so I could express properly how the article made me feel. I couldn't make myself read it through in one sitting.
I suppose using Bandura isn't a proper swear. It is funny though. Shchob tobi hrets can mean whatever you want really. Щоб тобі грець! =May you be kicked by a duck! which is particularly amusing. (It literally means I wish you to go mad. I don't know you get duck out of there. But whichever) Nai tebe kachka kopne! actually has 'duck' in it and is a common insult for college age students. It still means about the same thing of wishing someone to be kicked by a duck.
блять has no translation I'm aware of but it considered worse than 'fuck'.
But that's Ukrainian. They're close enough, I'd wager tho.
/totally unhelpful Ukrainian language geekery
As for the topic at hand, I still only have one thing, two words, to say: "fuck you".
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I dunno. I think German is the best language to swear in. It already sounds angry, anyway.
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Even when you're making love, German just sounds angry.
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שמן ממזר בן-זונה
Aimed at Bachmann or the school?
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Yeah, I read that article.
These people should be fucking arrested for child endangerment. Fuck their disordered, maniacal aberration of a cult (I REFUSE to call it a 'religion' 'cause that would imply respect).
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Funny, I have no problems calling it a religion, because it implies disrespect to me.
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Sorry, what did religion ever do to you? And I mean religion, not religious people. Think people here of all places should know Christians come in all shades and prejudging someone on that they're religious is just as bad as prejudging on that they're not cisgender and straight.
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I dunno. I think German is the best language to swear in. It already sounds angry, anyway.
Even when you're making love, German just sounds angry.
Yeah, the language sounds angry but acoording to an Austrian friend of mine the actual swearwords just aren't all that satisfying. I don't know many German swearwords myself so I just have to trust his word on this.
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"Open your eyes, people," Anderson recently wrote to the local newspaper. "What if a 15-year-old is seduced into homosexual behavior and then contracts AIDS?"
Well, we certainly don't have to worry about that at the rate they're killing themselves, do we?
Honestly, think of a better bullshit excuse if you're going to spout homophobic crap.
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German is bland.
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שמן ממזר בן-זונה
Aimed at Bachmann or the school?
Actually, that would be aimed at the male bullies. For the female bullies, Bachmann, and Andersen, I have this:
שמנה ממזרת בת-זונה
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Sorry, what did religion ever do to you? And I mean religion, not religious people. Think people here of all places should know Christians come in all shades and prejudging someone on that they're religious is just as bad as prejudging on that they're not cisgender and straight.
Not directed at me, I know, but at least in my experience I've noticed that religion tends to give people too many excuses to do bad things; someone can always claim the command to be horrible came from on high, and society will accept (if not necessarily condone) that explanation without subjecting it to the rigorous examination that other fantastical claims are given. Religion is uniquely armored to be resistant to questioning or justifications, which can make it genuinely dangerous in the wrong hands. You can snark at someone all you want, but the second you bring up which imaginary best friend they're holding hands with, the snarker becomes "intolerant" - and the religions of the world can and do use this fact to hide their actions behind their faith. You can't criticize their actions without being painted as criticizing their beliefs, and this somehow makes the critic the bad guy for doing so.
It's not a universal truth - there are always exceptions to the rule out there - but at least for me, that's what religion "did" that makes it so awful.
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A agree with Tenfold. I don't hate Christianity, but I very strongly dislike it, for all the reasons he's posted. Also, the religion told me that I was an abomination to be put to death, so there's that.
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Religion lied to me for years and, similar to Eniliad's experience, made me hate myself from a very young age. My mental issues have some genetic basis but if it weren't for the religion I was raised in would I call myself a demon incarnate? Would I spend so long fervently believing that I was a sub-human entity that had possessed my mother's child?
Depression isn't confined to the religious, but personally, I've made greater strides since dumping that tired old shit. Atheistic world views aren't for everyone, but tolerance for others and one's self is, and religion seems prone to promoting INtolerance.
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שמן ממזר בן-זונה
Aimed at Bachmann or the school?
Actually, that would be aimed at the male bullies. For the female bullies, Bachmann, and Andersen, I have this:
שמנה ממזרת בת-זונה
Heh, took me a minute to get it right. My computer messed up a couple letters.
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I have never understood the mantra of some reactionary idiots that if you curb aggressive behavior or prevent fighting that you are "emasculating" boys. I hear is damn near constantly from parents. They excuse bullying and cruelty with "Oh, boys will be boys."
I had a father this year tell me that he specifically instructed his son to retaliate immediately against any kind of physical aggression against him with "twice what they done." He told his son that if anyone hits him, he is to immediately hit them back twice as hard. If anyone shoves him, he is to shove them back twice as hard. He told his son that if he ever lets any slight against him pass that he is "weak" and a "punk" and a "victim." This kid now deeply believes in his soul that he has the right and the obligation to retaliate instantly against all slights, real or imagined. The kid doesn't even think about it anymore; it is ingrained in his identity. So far this year he has been involved in 3 fights that all escalated from the stupidest shit imaginable: once when another student stumbled against him in the hallway and he responded by shoving them into the wall. The second time resulted from a student calling him a "dick" for running his mouth. Next thing you know, punches thrown. The third time a student reached out and pushed his shoulder. Fist to the face. Once more instance and this kid is expelled. I expect that incident within the next two weeks, and unless this kid somehow unlearns this horrible mindset, he will be dead or in prison by his 18th birthday.
The thing is, the father continues to defend his son's behavior. His son has been suspended each time he was caught fighting, and each time his father was in school threatening a lawsuit because his son "has the right to defend himself." If we were not a private school with a very specific policy on fighting regardless of who started it that the parents all sign at the beginning of each year I'm certain he would have brought that suit. Each time his son is suspended, he returns to school with tales of how his dad kept telling him he was "proud of him for being strong," and how his father told him he was absolutely right to respond with vicious force. During these suspension days the father, who does not work, takes his son on reward trips, shopping, to movies, to an amusement park. The last time he bought his son a new cell phone as a reward for "defending himself." Defending himself against a kid two years younger, 8 inches shorter, and 55 pounds lighter than him.
All in the name of being "masculine."
I had another mother of a student once get in my face and tell me that her son (who was black) should not receive a suspension for fighting while the other student involved (who was white) should get once because in any black-white physical confrontation, the white is always at fault because all whites are racist. (Realize that I am white, and I am the teacher who not only was the only staff member advocating that her son not be expelled, but I am also the one who wrote sixteen letters of recommendation to get her kid into a local private high school and spent 3 hours a week after school tutoring her son for free so he could pass his exams.) When it became clear that I was not on board with this tactic, she switched gears and told me that her son should not be suspended because black boys are naturally more physically aggressive than white boys and we needed to be understanding about that.
I despise this mantra that being a man = being aggressive and violent. Manliness has never meant physical aggression. I was taught that being a "man" meant three things by my grandfather: Taking care of your business. Taking care of your family. Taking care of those who can not care for themselves. He told me that if you do these things, then you are a man.
IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
My grandfather made me memorize that. It's "If" by Rudyard Kipling. THAT is what being a "man" is.
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Sorry, what did religion ever do to you? And I mean religion, not religious people. Think people here of all places should know Christians come in all shades and prejudging someone on that they're religious is just as bad as prejudging on that they're not cisgender and straight.
Hey, you're the one who turned "religion is bad" to "religious people are bad" to "Christians are bad." Don't ask me to explain your logic, because I'm not following it either.
As to the thing in bold: This is such a cop-out. You can't remove religion from religious people because religion is an idea, & ideas don't exist without humans. Take any idea you perceive to be harmful, any one, & try to come up with a situation where it can cause harm without a person acting on it. It won't work.
Which you might assume proves that I'm saying religious people are bad. Well, guess what, it doesn't. You can't have religion without people, but you can have people without religion.
And for the record, a cult is basically just a small religion. They don't all commit mass suicide.
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I know parents who teach their kids that it's okay to hit back when they're cornered and the other person has hit them first. They had to be taught that because now defending yourself in school is a crime.
And I've also heard of kids who only get one B+ or A- on their report cards, and their parents chew them out. Like a friend of mine got an A- in math class, and her parents threatened to sabotage all her other schoolwork if she didn't bring that grade up.
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Like a friend of mine got an A- in math class, and her parents threatened to sabotage all her other schoolwork if she didn't bring that grade up.
Are...are they listening to themselves?
I remember high school, it was such a fucking no-win situation. In particular, it was a huge fucking catastrophe every time I didn't finish a minor assignment, but of course my parents didn't want me to stay up late.
They excuse bullying and cruelty with "Oh, boys will be boys."
Nauseating, innit?
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My grandfather told my mother that if someone started a (physical) fight with her and she didn't end it, he'd whup her when she got home. This was the batshit insane grandfather, of course; my mom just taught us that if someone hits us while intending harm that we should fight back and not be too scared to do so. "If I find out that YOU started it, though, there'll be hell to pay."
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My grandmother told my mother that she wasn't allowed to cry until she made the other kid cry.
I rather like it actually.
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....... my heart goes out to those poor kids. those people are monsters... I hope they all get Fired and thrown into jail where they will all be ass raped!
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I plan to raise my kids to defend themselves to a reasonable point. But violence should only be used as a defense against violence. When it comes to insults, I will encourage them to just ignore them completely. Because if they don't react at all, the bullies will lose interest.
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Dad told me to defend myself after the bullying got to that 'maybe a fight is gonna happen... maybe not' point. He said he'd be disappointed in me if I didn't. Needless to say, I defended myself. As has been mentioned before, I got the brunt of the punishment for defending myself. Dad toasted me and said I had done well to defend myself and screw the school for taking the bully's side.
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And I've also heard of kids who only get one B+ or A- on their report cards, and their parents chew them out. Like a friend of mine got an A- in math class, and her parents threatened to sabotage all her other schoolwork if she didn't bring that grade up.
In 5th grade, I knew this girl whose parents were both teachers and absolutely lost their shit if she didn't get at least an A- on every paper/project. Not as an overall grade, but as a grade for every single thing she did. I was paired with her and a couple other kids for a report, and of course, this group effort did not pull an A. It pulled a sad and miserable B. Can you imagine the hell? She spent the entire afternoon in the bathroom crying. Then in 10th grade I was in a math class with her brother. He was getting Cs, which was honestly a lot better than my grades in that class. I asked if their parents had eased up over the years, but he said, "No, they still shout and threaten to break my shit every time I get less than an A, but they're just going to have to deal with the fact that geometry sucks, and I'm lucky I'm getting a C, to be honest."
I feel like Mr. and Mrs. Drunk-With-the-Power-They-Have-On-Their-Kids should have been publicly humiliated every single time one the classes they taught for the year didn't test as well as other classes. It would have been so sweet.
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I plan to raise my kids to defend themselves to a reasonable point. But violence should only be used as a defense against violence. When it comes to insults, I will encourage them to just ignore them completely. Because if they don't react at all, the bullies will lose interest.
No they won't. Speaking from experience. Still, the lessons are, I think, correct ones.
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I plan to raise my kids to defend themselves to a reasonable point. But violence should only be used as a defense against violence. When it comes to insults, I will encourage them to just ignore them completely. Because if they don't react at all, the bullies will lose interest.
No they won't. Speaking from experience. Still, the lessons are, I think, correct ones.
Yeah I'm going to have to agree that ignoring bullies won't always help, they might actually like to pick on someone who does not retaliate. Besides waiting for them to get bored could take years...
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In my experience, which is considerable, violence begets violence which begets more violence which begets more violence...the cycle is endless. Unless someone is brave enough to end it.
There is a difference between "defending yourself" and "attacking someone." Two years ago I heard sudden chaos in the hallway and went out to find a 16 year old boy beating the shit out of a 17 year old. The 17 year old was on the floor, bleeding from his head, curled into a ball and trying to protect his face. The 16 year old was promptly expelled.
The next day his parents were at the school with a lawyer threatening a lawsuit because, and I'm not making this up, their son was just "defending himself." Apparently the 17 year old had pushed him hard in the hallway. The 16 year old threw a punch, which the other boy returned, and within 2 seconds the older boy was on the ground being beaten. Neither his parents nor the lawyer could grasp the fact that this was not self defense. They absolutely insisted that because the other boy pushed their son first, their son was justified in all of his subsequent actions. The case went to trial, and they lost. That night they were on the local TV news bemoaning how their son's "rights" were being abused, how the school district was "shielding a bully," how their son was the new Rosa Parks.
There is a difference between "defending yourself" and "attacking." If you have a valid non-violent option and you choose the violent one....you are not defending yourself. If you continue the violence after the danger to you has passed....you are not defending yourself. If you feel you have some kind of responsibility or obligation to retaliate for every slight against you....you are not defending yourself. If you have the opportunity to escape the situation and you choose to remain in it.... you are not defending yourself. But so many parents teach their children that these situations are valid cases of self defense. And the violence continues.
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Not saying this is what happened in that incident, but you can get caught up in the moment. In late elementary school or something, I was criticized for essentially beating up a younger kid on the bus. What I tried to communicate, & what the driver failed to grasp, was that he'd been holding my arms so a kid who WAS older than me could beat the shit out of me. When I got loose, I was mighty pissed off, & attacked the one that was closer. Also, I was using him as a shield against the other guy. Was the threat dissolved after I repositioned my seat? You know, that honestly hadn't occurred to me at the time.
To this day I don't feel bad. That cocky little shit deserved what he got. Hell, I regret not punching the driver in the 'nads for not breaking that shit up earlier, then trying to paint me as some kind of bully because I hit a poor widdle snowflake.
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Well, certainly you can let your emotions overwhelm you, especially when you are a kid. The reaction is absolutely understandable, but it is not "defending yourself." If you are no longer in danger it's "retaliation."
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Not sure what the legal recourse would be in that situation. Fortunately, I did not have to find out. Apparently, the school/bus agency didn't try anything because my sister had a lot of issues with that driver, & they were not willing to go for a Round 2.
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One of the things my dad taught me that's stuck with me was this...
If you're backed into a corner, and can't walk away, its okay to fight back. But, that fighting back stops when your opponent has lost the will or ability to fight.
"Only fight in defense of yourself or others," were his words, I believe.
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No they won't. Speaking from experience. Still, the lessons are, I think, correct ones.
Yeah I'm going to have to agree that ignoring bullies won't always help, they might actually like to pick on someone who does not retaliate. Besides waiting for them to get bored could take years...
And therein lies the rub: There isn't a lot the victim can do to discourage the bullies. Showing anger gives them satisfaction, ignoring them gives the impression that you're an easy target who won't fight back (and is much easier said than done, I might add), telling a teacher results in little action on the faculty's part & retaliation from the tormentors etc., etc. It's very much a lose-lose situation.
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That's why you play either Confused Guy or Chronic Laughter Guy. Confuse your enemy! If you can't make them genuinely fear you, you can at least leave them wondering...people don't like being confused, and they might just avoid you.
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Sorry, what did religion ever do to you? And I mean religion, not religious people. Think people here of all places should know Christians come in all shades and prejudging someone on that they're religious is just as bad as prejudging on that they're not cisgender and straight.
The Abrahamic religions, at least, say that I'm an abomination to be put to death. Doubly so, in my case, since my nature predisposes me to atheism.
And yes, I'm aware that there are moderates, especially on this very forum. I'm not against faith; if you want to seek spiritual guidance in whatever way you wish, so be it. You have your beliefs, I have mine.
However, having been the target of such hatred myself, I have zero empathy for these people. If these people wound up in jail for this (and I could certainly make a case for it), not only would I not shed a tear, but I'd probably cheer it on.
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The Abrahamic religions, at least, say that I'm an abomination to be put to death. Doubly so, in my case, since my nature predisposes me to atheism.
If the "abomination" part you are referencing to is the "don't lay with a man as you would a woman" part, you know that the word used that is translated to abomination is the word for unclean.
Plus, they only apply to those in the religion (going by Judaism and Islam, Christianity has never agreed with itself).
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The Abrahamic religions, at least, say that I'm an abomination to be put to death. Doubly so, in my case, since my nature predisposes me to atheism.
If the "abomination" part you are referencing to is the "don't lay with a man as you would a woman" part, you know that the word used that is translated to abomination is the word for unclean.
Plus, they only apply to those in the religion (going by Judaism and Islam, Christianity has never agreed with itself).
Yeah, but you know what I mean. :P
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The Abrahamic religions, at least, say that I'm an abomination to be put to death. Doubly so, in my case, since my nature predisposes me to atheism.
If the "abomination" part you are referencing to is the "don't lay with a man as you would a woman" part, you know that the word used that is translated to abomination is the word for unclean.
Plus, they only apply to those in the religion (going by Judaism and Islam, Christianity has never agreed with itself).
Yeah, but you know what I mean. :P
Yeah, I'm just saying, don't hate an entire group of religions because some managed to twist the words and meanings.
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In Leviticus, the word often mistranslated as "abomination" is toevah, which is more accurately translated as "ritually unclean" for Jews. So if you're not a religious Jew, it doesn't even apply. Christian fundies keep getting it so, so wrong.
http://www.lionking.org/~kovu/bible/section05.html (http://www.lionking.org/~kovu/bible/section05.html)
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The problem I have with the 'IGNORE BULLIES AND BULLYING!' theory of teaching children to cope with harassment is that there isn't any other provision taken in most schools--at least not in the ones I dealt with. My last primary school (the one in the US that I went to for my last three years) called it the 'De-Bugging' system and still use the same set of guidelines to this day. I remember them quite well: 1, Ignore it; 2, Walk Away; 3, Tell a grownup. Other schools have similar systems in place. The problem with this is that it puts ALL responsibility on the victim. None of the things children are advised to do directly impact the problem: the bully.
It honestly is a good idea to do what you can to give the impression that the bully hasn't succeeded in their goal, which is to hurt or upset you, by ignoring it or underreacting. But even when a school DOES take the unusual step of trying to deal with the bully him/herself, they don't usually do it very effectively--in all the cutesy informational videos I remember watching or stories I had to read about it, the end usually consisted of the bully and victim becoming good friends once they put their differences aside. That always leaves the impression that you either hate someone or want to be their buddy. It's okay not to be friends with everyone, but it ISN'T okay to bully anyone.
I just wish I had a better solution to suggest. Unfortunately for me, my only avenue was to fight back--in the end it did work somewhat, and people were less willing to torment me once they knew I could and WOULD seriously fuck them over. I guess I'm lucky because my dad was himself bullied in school and he also got to the end of his rope and snapped and had one good, winning fistfight with each of them that ultimately stopped the bullying completely. He didn't like that he had to do it, and he didn't like that I'd done it either, but he understood why I did it and didn't punish me for it.
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In Leviticus, the word often mistranslated as "abomination" is toevah, which is more accurately translated as "ritually unclean" for Jews. So if you're not a religious Jew, it doesn't even apply. Christian fundies keep getting it so, so wrong.
http://www.lionking.org/~kovu/bible/section05.html (http://www.lionking.org/~kovu/bible/section05.html)
Here's the thing, though: Not many people know that. I didn't know that until I read it just now. So even semi-moderate fundies think that's literally what the bible is saying: that gays are an abomination to be put to death. Mostly because, for worse, that's what's printed these days. See, that's the bitch: even if you're right, with historical context and mistranslations kept in mind, 99% of believers do not realize it. And you could say, "that's believers, not the religion itself!" I say, when the vast majority of people believe it, that's what the religion is. That is the face of modern Christianity. Or Judaism, or Islam. Whatever.
The Bible as written in proper context isn't that bad. Historically, I might have more tolerance for the Abrahamic religions. But modern religion, the beliefs practiced today, are actually less tolerant than their year-0 counterparts, and that is why I have animosity towards it today.
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See, that's the bitch: even if you're right, with historical context and mistranslations kept in mind, 99% of believers do not realize it. And you could say, "that's believers, not the religion itself!" I say, when the vast majority of people believe it, that's what the religion is. That is the face of modern Christianity. Or Judaism, or Islam. Whatever.
I understand your feelings about religion since the fundamentalist christians are the most vocal and very common over there. Most of the christians (at least in the countries where people in general are more educated) are more openminded, though. For example the Finnish Lutheran church is currently having a Synod where they try to come up with a unified stand on homosexuality. The archbishop's comment about the Synod: (http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Archbishop+calls+for+unequivocal+Synod+stance+on+homosexuality/1135261517285)
I expect the delegates of the Synod to make an unambiguous decision that will support and encourage homosexual people and same-sex couples who have registered their civil union
The same archbishop has also recently publically stated that he doesn't believe homosexuality is sinful in any way. For the sake of the homosexuals who belong to the church I hope the Synod will do as the archbishop expects.
Edit: Added the quote I was answering to since I started a new page. I'd also like to emphasize that I'm not trying to say that christianity is a better or more tolerant religion than the others.
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See, that's the bitch: even if you're right, with historical context and mistranslations kept in mind, 99% of believers do not realize it. And you could say, "that's believers, not the religion itself!" I say, when the vast majority of people believe it, that's what the religion is. That is the face of modern Christianity. Or Judaism, or Islam. Whatever.
I understand your feelings about religion since the fundamentalist christians are the most vocal and very common over there. Most of the christians (at least in the countries where people in general are more educated) are more openminded, though. For example the Finnish Lutheran church is currently having a Synod where they try to come up with a unified stand on homosexuality. The archbishop's comment about the Synod: (http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Archbishop+calls+for+unequivocal+Synod+stance+on+homosexuality/1135261517285)
I expect the delegates of the Synod to make an unambiguous decision that will support and encourage homosexual people and same-sex couples who have registered their civil union
The same archbishop has also recently publically stated that he doesn't believe homosexuality is sinful in any way. For the sake of the homosexuals who belong to the church I hope the Synod will do as the archbishop expects.
Edit: Added the quote I was answering to since I started a new page. I'd also like to emphasize that I'm not trying to say that christianity is a better or more tolerant religion than the others.
You know what?
I need to hear good news like that sometimes. It really is spirit-lifting.
+1 for you. Thanks. :)
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Frankly, my impression of most moderates is that they just ignore the passages that make them uncomfortable. That's the same thing the Fundies do, it's just that they've happened to come to the right conclusion based on the same ass-backwards approach. Of course you have your occasional theology scholar, or well-read Scotsman, but they are not whom I'm talking about.
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The Complete Monster trope was made for people like this
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X8evilzsW0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohELyD0EeDc
To the kids in Bachmann's area.
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No they won't. Speaking from experience. Still, the lessons are, I think, correct ones.
Yeah I'm going to have to agree that ignoring bullies won't always help, they might actually like to pick on someone who does not retaliate. Besides waiting for them to get bored could take years...
And therein lies the rub: There isn't a lot the victim can do to discourage the bullies. Showing anger gives them satisfaction, ignoring them gives the impression that you're an easy target who won't fight back (and is much easier said than done, I might add), telling a teacher results in little action on the faculty's part & retaliation from the tormentors etc., etc. It's very much a lose-lose situation.
Another problem with bullying is that everyone seems to think that it's always an aggressive thing. It isn't. A lot of bullying, particularly girl-on-girl, is incredibly passive-aggressive. And the worst part is that there's nothing you can do about it. If a group of girls won't let you sit at their table, what do you do? They've already succeeded in making you feel bad; having a teacher force them to let you sit with them does nothing because they can ignore you, and by now you don't want to anyway. A rumor, once spread, can't be taken back, so even if you find out who started it and punish that person, the damage has already been done.
I never once stood up to my bullies. Not once. And that left me open to nine years of bullying. That's, at this point, half my life. I sometimes wish I had, but what the fuck could I do? I was the shortest and skinniest kid in my class for years. I wore glasses. I had allergies and asthma. I read a lot. I just ran away from the problem because I valued not getting in trouble over my personal wellbeing. I considered suicide at one point, not because I wanted to die but so that the other kids would realize just how bad they made me feel.
And that is why I cannot stand these people. If you seriously think that children - children - are better off dead than gay, then you need serious mental help.
As for language, I think Drow is the best language.
Vith dos, Michelle Bachmann lu' Barb Anderson. Dos ph' elg'caressen. Dos zhal'la alu wund natha resk'afar lu' ssussun dosstan pholor chath. Dos zhal'la inbal luth'olen phor dosst t'zarrethen. Dos ph' nempori. Dos ph' retlah d' phlith. Vith dos ulu Uoi'nota.
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In Leviticus, the word often mistranslated as "abomination" is toevah, which is more accurately translated as "ritually unclean" for Jews. So if you're not a religious Jew, it doesn't even apply. Christian fundies keep getting it so, so wrong.
http://www.lionking.org/~kovu/bible/section05.html (http://www.lionking.org/~kovu/bible/section05.html)
The word used is shiqquwts, not to'e'va in that instance.
I could have sworn to'e'va meant a moral offense.
Oh, and just because a majority of people believe that something means something, doesn't make the religion conform to them. They are wrong.
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The problem I have with the 'IGNORE BULLIES AND BULLYING!' theory of teaching children to cope with harassment is that there isn't any other provision taken in most schools--at least not in the ones I dealt with. My last primary school (the one in the US that I went to for my last three years) called it the 'De-Bugging' system and still use the same set of guidelines to this day. I remember them quite well: 1, Ignore it; 2, Walk Away; 3, Tell a grownup. Other schools have similar systems in place. The problem with this is that it puts ALL responsibility on the victim. None of the things children are advised to do directly impact the problem: the bully.
The problem is that, like it or not, there is incredible peer pressure in schools. Many kids think that telling a teacher when they are being bullied is a sign of a weak person and a tattle-tale, and that the only way to deal with bullies is to stand up to them directly.
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Oh, and just because a majority of people believe that something means something, doesn't make the religion conform to them. They are wrong.
It doesn't make sense to say that something no one believes in anymore is a tenet of a modern religion. This is just an implication of religion being a matter of opinion: If people believe it, it's a valid part of the faith. You can like it or not, but it is what it is.
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The problem I have with the 'IGNORE BULLIES AND BULLYING!' theory of teaching children to cope with harassment is that there isn't any other provision taken in most schools--at least not in the ones I dealt with. My last primary school (the one in the US that I went to for my last three years) called it the 'De-Bugging' system and still use the same set of guidelines to this day. I remember them quite well: 1, Ignore it; 2, Walk Away; 3, Tell a grownup. Other schools have similar systems in place. The problem with this is that it puts ALL responsibility on the victim. None of the things children are advised to do directly impact the problem: the bully.
The problem is that, like it or not, there is incredible peer pressure in schools. Many kids think that telling a teacher when they are being bullied is a sign of a weak person and a tattle-tale, and that the only way to deal with bullies is to stand up to them directly.
This. The same with telling your parents. And even if the kid does tell the teacher, the teacher has absolutely no obligation to do anything. Even if the school has a reporting system like mine did, many teachers don't fill out the necessary paperwork. I switched schools because of how badly I was bullied (and I went to every teacher I had, none of whom did anything). At the school board meeting later that year, the superintendent reported only one case of bullying since they had implemented their anti-bullying program. My worst case of bullying was never fully resolved, because the teacher I went to never officially recorded any of my meetings with him, so when I went to the next level, the only person they could punish was the one who was stupid enough to record herself.
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Oh, and just because a majority of people believe that something means something, doesn't make the religion conform to them. They are wrong.
It doesn't make sense to say that something no one believes in anymore is a tenet of a modern religion. This is just an implication of religion being a matter of opinion: If people believe it, it's a valid part of the faith. You can like it or not, but it is what it is.
To be fair, you can only change so many things before it is something totally different. Changing "unclean" into "morally offensive" counts. Last time I checked, having unprotected anal sex would result in a possible infection, not me making every child I walk by cry while horns sprouted out of my head.
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Well, if they say, "That's what the Bible has always said," in that case, they're just factually wrong. But since when do religions have to worry about facts?
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Frankly, my impression of most moderates is that they just ignore the passages that make them uncomfortable. That's the same thing the Fundies do, it's just that they've happened to come to the right conclusion based on the same ass-backwards approach. Of course you have your occasional theology scholar, or well-read Scotsman, but they are not whom I'm talking about.
If you have a brain and are even a little religious, you have to realize a few things:
1. The Bible (or whatever your holy text of choice may be) was written by humans, gone through numerous translations and re-translations, been redacted, added to, edited, lost, found, subjected to public inquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters. It is ABSOLUTELY necessary to approach a holy text and be able to see, or at least make the attempt to see, where the cultural, political, and historical biases of the authors/translators have crept in. You have to make the effort to tell which parts are cultural (no shellfish, women shut the hell up in church, no mixed-fiber clothing, circumcision, anti-gay prejudices, etc.) and which parts are doctrinal (Jesus is the Son of God, the Golden Rule, John 3:16, etc.).
We have a problem in the USA in that a large portion of our Christian religious heritage is either exceptionally conservative and reactionary (evangelicals and protestants) or astoundingly legalistic and moribund (Catholic and Orthodox). Both of those flavors of Christianity unfortunately share a few of the same cultural values that the bronze-age nomads who produced the Bible did, such as the devaluation of women, exaltation of patriarchs, homophobia (but really only male-male homophobia), a rather unfortunate penchant for ethnocentrism, and a paralyzing fear of change. So while the mainstream Christian traditions in the US (and largely Europe as well) reject many of the cultural bits that are in the Bible (like the no shellfish thing, the head-covering of women thing, the no-shaving for men, and the like) that are not shared while whole-heartedly embracing those bits with that are unfortunately still shared (like the homophobia thing).
Because these cultural biases are shared, the mainstream Christian traditions have moved them from the "cultural" column to the "doctrinal" column, and once moved, to put them back where they belong would be to admit error, and there we run into the whole "fear of change" and cowardly reliance on tradition to establish truth.
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Making a teacher force the bullies to let a kid sit at their table makes that kid look like a teacher's pet.
Once I was sitting in the cafeteria when I heard a girl bragging how she was going to slip a mind-altering drug into another girl's food so that she would fail a test. She also explained to her friends how to give her threatening messages via phone, while leave no evidence for her to come forward with. Being the quiet wallflower that I am, she didn't notice me - so I quietly packed up and went straight to the principal's office with it. The principal called in the vice-principal, who asked me a bunch of questions about what she said and what she looked like. Then I was taken to a secure room where all the video feeds from the campus cameras are shown. I described the time and place I saw her, and we were able to identify her on camera. (Her backpack was unmistakable.) Then they secretly sent that information to all the teachers so that if they saw that girl in their class, they would send her immediately to the principal's office. I didn't see her after that.
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Wykked: That is a surprisingly efficient system. My school would just tell you to describe the situation in detail using a few short sentences. It didn't make sense to me either.
Sandman: Not going to lie, I completely blanked on the "moderates recognize the Bible has changed over time" part. So that was my fail. But still, in many cases it's going to be really hard to tell if the part you're reading is cultural or doctrinal. If the earliest known passage says God commands that you don't do something we do all of the time, what do you call that? In this case, you're going to have to go with your best guess. In which case, why even bother with the book?
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Yes, that it really hard to tell, Lith. Which is one of the reason cowardly, lazy fuckers instead let their Organized Religion of Choice make all those decisions for them.
It always astonishes me how many people believe that God gave them a brain, the ability to think, and free will, but doesn't want them to use any of it.
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Yes, that it really hard to tell, Lith. Which is one of the reason cowardly, lazy fuckers instead let their Organized Religion of Choice make all those decisions for them.
It always astonishes me how many people believe that God gave them a brain, the ability to think, and free will, but doesn't want them to use any of it.
In this respect, I've always liked the Quakers. If I were ever inspired to join a religion again, I'd probably be a Quaker. One form of church service is "unprogrammed worship", where everyone is silent until the Holy Spirit (which they say dwells within everyone) compels them to speak. And they have a rich cultural history to boot. My great-grandmother was abandoned as an infant and raised by the Society of Friends.
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That would be...interesting.
"BALLSHITACO!"
"For the last time, Lithp, the Holy Spirit is NOT whatever random phrase pops into your head!"
"It COULD be! You don't KNOW!"
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Yeah, I gotta admit it does seem like an excellent opportunity for trolling.
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Real-Time Verbal-Somatic Congregational Trolling? We are in uncharted waters here, my friends.....
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I'll do it for
Satan science.
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I'd do it for the look on the faces when the 220 pound man in the Kilt starts breakdancing in the aisle.
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You do realize, if that happens, you simply must have it recorded for all to see, right?
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If I tried to breakdance, things would get very literal very quickly. Things would break. The floor. Chairs. Nearby walls. People who don't get oot of the way fast enough. My back. Several key laws of physics. Best not to risk it.
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Also, Quakers believe that the person who feels inspired to speak is not that person, but rather the Holy Spirit speaking through them.
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If I tried to breakdance, things would get very literal very quickly. Things would break. The floor. Chairs. Nearby walls. People who don't get oot of the way fast enough. My back. Several key laws of physics. Best not to risk it.
And aboot?
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Heh, I did not even notice that. How....odd. I don't even SPEAK with a Scots accent anymore really, let alone TYPE in one.
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If I tried to breakdance, things would get very literal very quickly. Things would break. The floor. Chairs. Nearby walls. People who don't get oot of the way fast enough. My back. Several key laws of physics. Best not to risk it.
You win the "made me literally LOL" award.
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Heh, I did not even notice that. How....odd. I don't even SPEAK with a Scots accent anymore really, let alone TYPE in one.
I do type in one from time to time and things slip out when I shouldn't have been using the accent.
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The problem is that, like it or not, there is incredible peer pressure in schools. Many kids think that telling a teacher when they are being bullied is a sign of a weak person and a tattle-tale, and that the only way to deal with bullies is to stand up to them directly.
Cartoon Network (which we watch a lot because my fiancee works for a toy store) has started a campaign called "Stop Bullying, Speak Up." The cast of "Dude, What Would Happen" does the ads. I have no idea how well they work (and I grant they only show examples of physical bullying), but it is trying to show kids that fighting back is not the best option.
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Heh, I did not even notice that. How....odd. I don't even SPEAK with a Scots accent anymore really,
You don't. :( I always hear a Scots accent when I read your posts. And pictured you teaching it.
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That's why you play either Confused Guy or Chronic Laughter Guy. Confuse your enemy! If you can't make them genuinely fear you, you can at least leave them wondering...people don't like being confused, and they might just avoid you.
This, so much. Acting like you actively enjoy being bullied confuses the bullies and creeps them out, regardless of the reasons they have for bullying.
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It also makes you look like some kind of freak in the eyes of people who otherwise might associate with you, so again, lose-lose situation.
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It also makes you look like some kind of freak in the eyes of people who otherwise might associate with you, so again, lose-lose situation.
You make it sound like there were kids who would have otherwise associated with me.
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Heh, I did not even notice that. How....odd. I don't even SPEAK with a Scots accent anymore really, let alone TYPE in one.
Well, now I'm starting to suspect you're not even a true Scotsman. Why, I bet you put salt in your porridge!
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Only one way to check is to lift his kilt.
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Only one way to check is to lift his kilt.
Why? In case he's really a Scotswoman?
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Only one way to check is to lift his kilt.
Why? In case he's really a Scotswoman?
No. To check to see if he wears anything underneath it.
Real Scotsmen go commando.
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Exactly. He claims it's like the Loch Ness Monster.
Ironbite-whcich we all know doesn't exist so...
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It also makes you look like some kind of freak in the eyes of people who otherwise might associate with you, so again, lose-lose situation.
You make it sound like there were kids who would have otherwise associated with me.
I'd have associated with you.
That's horseshit, I never make the first move.
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Only one way to check is to lift his kilt.
Why? In case he's really a Scotswoman?
No. To check to see if he wears anything underneath it.
Real Scotsmen go commando.
Hate to burst yer bubble, but no, we don't. Raw wool + unprotected naughty bits = very unhappy Scot. I have never known anyone in my life who went "commando" under their kilts unless it was a dare, a bet, or they were trying to be funny.
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Hate to burst yer bubble, but no, we don't. Raw wool + unprotected naughty bits = very unhappy Scot. I have never known anyone in my life who went "commando" under their kilts unless it was a dare, a bet, or they were trying to be funny.
Well, that would explain the Scot's reputation for being vicious warriors. They were all really pissed off.
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That's probably explained by a combination of the food, the weather, and the neighbors. See, Scotland, Canada and the guy who lived upstreet of Archie Bunker all have something in common: the guys to the south tend to be kind of douchebags about certain shit.
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It also makes you look like some kind of freak in the eyes of people who otherwise might associate with you, so again, lose-lose situation.
You make it sound like there were kids who would have otherwise associated with me.
I'd have associated with you.
That's horseshit, I never make the first move.
No, you would have associated with me if I had been as I am now. Which I most definitely wasn't.
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I know that in the very north of NI they wear kilts and they go commando when wearing them.
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Yes, well, would Americans like it if we Scots based our entire opinion of your culture on the hi jinks of a few inbred Appalachian hillbillies? (And yes, I am aware that the vast majority of Appalachian hillbillies are of Scots-Irish descent. That's what we call "EYE-ron-EEE" in the big wide world.)
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It also makes you look like some kind of freak in the eyes of people who otherwise might associate with you, so again, lose-lose situation.
You make it sound like there were kids who would have otherwise associated with me.
I'd have associated with you.
That's horseshit, I never make the first move.
No, you would have associated with me if I had been as I am now. Which I most definitely wasn't.
I wasn't really the same either, so.
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Yes, well, would Americans like it if we Scots based our entire opinion of your culture on the hi jinks of a few inbred Appalachian hillbillies? (And yes, I am aware that the vast majority of Appalachian hillbillies are of Scots-Irish descent. That's what we call "EYE-ron-EEE" in the big wide world.)
Go ahead, we already do that to ourselves :V
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I notice he said nothing about his porridge.