Author Topic: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington  (Read 423805 times)

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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1725 on: September 25, 2017, 07:56:10 pm »
We shouldn't sugarcoat America's flaws and misdeeds, but there are legitimate reasons to be proud, at least in my opinion. If you don't think so, that's fine. I'm not some ultranationalist who thinks criticizing America points to some kind of underlying character flaw. I love my country, warts and all.
Never thought pride in a country was tied to how "free" the country was in the first place. Loving a country "warts and all" is essentially a tribal affiliation not a rational argument.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 08:05:25 pm by Tolpuddle Martyr »

Offline Eiki-mun

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1726 on: September 25, 2017, 08:47:23 pm »
Which is why John Oliver is in Gitmo right now. /s

Nah, the right wing in this country knows better than to try to use legal force against those whose speech it disapproves of. Easier to look the other way and let the people do it themselves, with knives and cars.

America granted women the vote before most European countries (French women weren't enfranchised until 1945!), rebuilt numerous countries devastated in World War II, is one of the most diverse countries on the planet, has made countless innovations, and remains one of the global leaders in free speech.

We shouldn't sugarcoat America's flaws and misdeeds, but there are legitimate reasons to be proud, at least in my opinion. If you don't think so, that's fine. I'm not some ultranationalist who thinks criticizing America points to some kind of underlying character flaw. I love my country, warts and all.

The first point really depends on how you define the word "most". In terms of population, a large portion of Europe's feminine population was in fact able to vote before America passed the 19th Amendment in 1920 (Germany, Finland, Russia, Poland, the Netherlands to name a few). I will grant you that we did a pretty good job in rebuilding Europe and Japan after the big war. That's definitely a good thing. Of course, everyone who was involved in that is now dead, and our current government over the past generation, well... we managed to start several wars in the middle east, I'm living under a nuclear umbrella from Korea, we still don't have capable healthcare, we still don't have high-class infrastructure, and our current Congress has spent the last six months trying to dismantle what little progress we've made towards a stable, affordable health care system, basically ignoring everything else in their quest to appease their donors. I mean, should we really be proud if our last great moment was 70 years ago?

As was already mentioned, of course, there's a difference between loving your country and being proud of it. If you have a son who's a dropout and doing drugs, you can love them, but you're probably not going to be proud of them. And I sure don't see a lot to be proud of in America.

All countries where you can get arrested for criticizing Islam. They might as well bring back blasphemy laws.

I could question your use of the article you linked, wherein the only sourced information stating that any criticism of Islam is illegal links to another article on a profoundly right-wing, pro-nationalist site. But in truth, that whole deal is irrelevant, because to be proud of a country doesn't mean that it it perfect, or that it has no blemishes. You seem to be implying that being proud of a country like Germany or the Netherlands is equated to believing it can do no wrong, but that isn't true, and I never said any such thing. We could instead talk about Germany's leading role in holding together a difficult-to-hold EU, their honestly startling economic recovery starting in the early 50s, or the fact that they have one of the best health care systems in the world, right now. Or we could talk about how, while we yelled at Australia over 1,200 people that we'd already agreed to take in, Germany was doing their best to take in a million Syrian refugees, which I would at the very least call extremely brave, if a little reckless (Germany didn't have the infrastructure for that and it showed). Those are things to be proud of, and they're not something that ended 70 years ago.

You mean the country that still calls its Korean population "foreigners"? Japan is still very xenophobic for a first-world country.

This has already been answered, so I'll let Askold's answer stand. In response to the claim that voter ID laws have been struck down, this is true, but it doesn't excuse the fact that they're being put up in the first place.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1727 on: September 26, 2017, 12:51:12 am »
Not only are those voter IDsuppression laws passed, but there's no real remedy for the damage they do. Sure, they might get struck down eventually... but how many elections have been affected in the interim?
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1728 on: September 26, 2017, 04:08:12 am »
Yep, after the elections said and done striking the law down doesn't do a hell of  a lot for the people who lost their vote.

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1729 on: September 26, 2017, 09:05:32 pm »
From CNN's health care debate:

Quote from: Sen. Cassidy
For 25 years, I worked in the public hospital system of Louisiana trying to bring health care to those who did not have. And I learned in those 25 years that when the patient has the power, the system lines up to serve her. And when the bureaucrat has the power, it first serves the bureaucrat. Now, this is a debate about who has the power. Is it you, the patient, or is it the federal government? The narrative on the other side is that you don't have the capability to care for yourself, that your governor is corrupt, scheming to take away your protections if you have a pre-existing condition. And they think the federal government taking control of your life is a better way to go.

The logical extension of that, unfortunately, is the Charlie Gard case, the Charlie Gard case in which the single payer of England said the decide -- the life -- the decision of the life of your child is too important for the parents to make, and then the child died. I will tell you, if it's a decision about you versus the federal government, we side with you. Those who oppose us and those who want single payer, they choose otherwise. Thank you.

Argh the UK does not have single-payer, they have single-provider.

EDIT: Anthony "Carlos 'The Mongoose' Danger" Weiner has been sentenced to 21 months in prison after pleading guilty to sending explicit messages to a 15-year-old.

Good riddance.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 10:14:48 pm by dpareja »
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

pyro

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1730 on: September 26, 2017, 11:35:57 pm »
How would single-payer take power away from the patient? I mean, the choice looks to me more like deciding if the power should go to the federal government or the private insurance companies.

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1731 on: September 26, 2017, 11:42:32 pm »
How would single-payer take power away from the patient? I mean, the choice looks to me more like deciding if the power should go to the federal government or the private insurance companies.

To some extent, they're conflating single-payer with single-provider.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Askold

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1732 on: September 27, 2017, 06:44:59 am »
OK...

Parts of USA are on fire, underwater or blown miles away by hurricanes but relief efforts are a clusterfuck. GOP fails repeatedly to take down ACA. What is the country talking about? Some athlete who has been protesting police brutality for at least a year now. And instead of his protest they are talking about how he supposedly hates "the flag" and war veterans.

Say what you want about Trump but once again he has managed to take all his numerous failures and as a bonus he has once again made it acceptable for his fans to complain minorities being "uppity" or "ungrateful" when they want equal treatment. Meanwhile the only defense the people who support the protest can think of is "1st amendment makes protesting legal" which will soon be used to defend the next Nazi rally in USA.

Score for Trump.
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Offline Tolpuddle Martyr

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1733 on: September 27, 2017, 08:38:39 am »
That's how outrage culture works, while the world burns yell about how outrageous some piddling shit that offends conservatives sense of decorum is and how that's the real issue. Never mind the smoke starting to fill the room and the temperature rising.

Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1734 on: September 27, 2017, 06:07:04 pm »
http://www.thegreenpapers.com/G17/AL#S2_

Oh God Roy Moore will probably become a US Senator.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Lana Reverse

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1735 on: September 27, 2017, 09:45:01 pm »
That's how outrage culture works, while the world burns yell about how outrageous some piddling shit that offends conservatives sense of decorum is and how that's the real issue. Never mind the smoke starting to fill the room and the temperature rising.

Yup. Distract people from real issues with irrelevant crap that doesn't really affect anything.

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/G17/AL#S2_

Oh God Roy Moore will probably become a US Senator.


That fanatic a senator? Oh no.
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Offline dpareja

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1736 on: September 28, 2017, 02:46:20 pm »
https://www.wired.com/story/jared-kushner-voter-registration-woman?mbid=social_twitter

On the one hand, laugh at how Jared Kushner accidentally said he was a woman when he registered to vote.

On the other hand, remember that this person has top security clearance.
Quote from: Jordan Duram
It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

Quote from: Supreme Court of Canada
Being required by someone else’s religious beliefs to behave contrary to one’s sexual identity is degrading and disrespectful.

Offline Id82

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1737 on: September 28, 2017, 06:58:37 pm »
Calling it he's gonna come out as trans. This was some kind of Freudian slip.
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Offline niam2023

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1738 on: September 28, 2017, 11:34:03 pm »
That would drive Trump into full on "I am now Napoleon" insanity.
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Offline Skybison

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Re: Mr. Trump Goes to Washington
« Reply #1739 on: September 29, 2017, 12:39:43 am »
So Lindsey Graham has admitted he had no idea what he was doing with that awful healthcare bill.

https://theintercept.com/2017/09/27/lindsey-graham-on-obamacare-repeal-i-had-no-idea-what-i-was-doing/

Quote
Graham, though, said he was not alone in his lack of understanding of health care. “Nobody in our conference believes Obamacare works. It must be replaced. But until now, we didn’t know how to do it,” Graham told reporters in the Capitol on Tuesday, audio of which is posted below."
...

A reporter pointed out that such ignorance at this late stage is hard to understand. “You’ve been working to overhaul this for seven years. Why is this so hard?” she asked.

“Well, I’ve been doing it for about a month. I thought everybody else knew what the hell they were talking about, but apparently not,” Graham clarified, adding he had assumed “these really smart people will figure it out.”

The crash course in health policy has been a romp, Graham said. “I’ve enjoyed this more than anything. I’ve learned so much about health care in other states — Pennsylvania, Alaska, Ohio,” he said, adding that he even learned about his own state. “South Carolina, we have 11 predominantly African-American counties that have unique health care needs and one size doesn’t fit all, even within your state. I looked at the history of welfare reform, and I think we can replicate that here.

First, maybe you should quit congress until you actually understand the stuff you make laws about and give your seat to someone smart. Second, the fact that he's admitting he and his party don't know what they are doing sadly still puts him ahead of most of the Republican party who haven't even done that.