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Community => Entertainment and Television => Topic started by: Even Then on April 05, 2016, 08:14:27 am

Title: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 05, 2016, 08:14:27 am
Since Askold wanted there to be a thread.

http://www.craveonline.com/entertainment/972903-gamers-flood-baldurs-gate-expansion-negative-reviews-introduces-transsexual-character (http://www.craveonline.com/entertainment/972903-gamers-flood-baldurs-gate-expansion-negative-reviews-introduces-transsexual-character)

tl;dr: new Baldur's Gate content includes one transgender NPC, the revelation of whose identity is completely optional, gamers handle it with poise and rationality
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: IanC on April 05, 2016, 08:21:07 am
A badly written character. You forgot to say that. A badly written character who's introduction is her telling you that she's trans and how it's like so super important, instead of it coming out naturally.

Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 05, 2016, 08:28:18 am
No, her introduction is giving you her name, telling you she serves Tempus and praising said god. From there, the player has the option to ask about her apparently unusual name, to which she responds by saying that she changed her name. If the player inquires further (which is completely optional) then she tells the player she's transgender. There's even a video in the article that displays this, derogatory though the video itself may be.

The revelation is behind two clicks of an optional dialogue tree and the player can opt out of caring about that aspect of her backstory; it can hardly be said that her introduction is her directly coming out to you.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on April 05, 2016, 09:15:08 am
The revelation is behind two clicks of an optional dialogue tree and the player can opt out of caring about that aspect of her backstory; it can hardly be said that her introduction is her directly coming out to you.

So in order to be outraged by her trans nature you have to specifically go looking for it?

SHOVING, CRAMMING THRUSTING SJW DOWN GAEMERZ THROATZZ!!!
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: The_Queen on April 05, 2016, 09:19:40 am
No, her introduction is giving you her name, telling you she serves Tempus and praising said god. From there, the player has the option to ask about her apparently unusual name, to which she responds by saying that she changed her name. If the player inquires further (which is completely optional) then she tells the player she's transgender. There's even a video in the article that displays this, derogatory though the video itself may be.

The revelation is behind two clicks of an optional dialogue tree and the player can opt out of caring about that aspect of her backstory; it can hardly be said that her introduction is her directly coming out to you.

I just want to add to your awesome rebuttle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4sKg18lTqw
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 05, 2016, 09:22:47 am
I just love how the reviewers make the same misassumption as Ian did. It betrays that the people claiming to be Baldur fans never actually played the game or even bothered to watch their masturbatory T-slur Abuse video completely. What was that about SJWs not playing games, again?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 05, 2016, 10:03:07 am
I just love how the reviewers make the same misassumption as Ian did. It betrays that the people claiming to be Baldur fans never actually played the game or even bothered to watch their masturbatory T-slur Abuse video completely. What was that about SJWs not playing games, again?

I dunno, why did Sunset fail?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: The_Queen on April 05, 2016, 10:08:46 am
I just love how the reviewers make the same misassumption as Ian did. It betrays that the people claiming to be Baldur fans never actually played the game or even bothered to watch their masturbatory T-slur Abuse video completely. What was that about SJWs not playing games, again?

I dunno, why did Sunset fail?

Exactly. How dare video games try to be inclusive of other races, orientations, identities, and people. And how dare these games present feminazis (i.e. women) as worthy of respect and dignity.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 05, 2016, 10:12:25 am
So UP's inane response got me to thinking. Why do those like him associate the social left with the "walking simulator" genre? Is it because a black person is the main character? Well, I've seen people call TFA an SJW movie for daring to have a prominent black character, so I guess the answer is racism?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 05, 2016, 10:14:55 am
I just love how the reviewers make the same misassumption as Ian did. It betrays that the people claiming to be Baldur fans never actually played the game or even bothered to watch their masturbatory T-slur Abuse video completely. What was that about SJWs not playing games, again?

I dunno, why did Sunset fail?

Exactly. How dare video games try to be inclusive of other races, orientations, identities, and people. And how dare these games present feminazis (i.e. women) as worthy of respect and dignity.

Oh, I have no problem with inclusiveness.  The issue comes when it's poorly done.

So UP's inane response got me to thinking. Why do those like him associate the social left with the "walking simulator" genre? Is it because a black person is the main character? Well, I've seen people call TFA an SJW movie for daring to have a prominent black character, so I guess the answer is racism?

Different story entirely.  See, TFA was a movie first, and a social justice vehicle second.  Sunset, on the other hand, was basically "Virtue-Signaling: The Video Game."
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 05, 2016, 10:27:27 am
...for having a black main character and talking about how bad war and tyranny are. If that's all that a game needs to become a Dreaded SJW Game, the bar's basically six feet under.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 05, 2016, 10:31:42 am
...for having a black main character and talking about how bad war and tyranny are. If that's all that a game needs to become a Dreaded SJW Game, the bar's basically six feet under.

The problem is that it's all there was to Sunset.  Gamers didn't give the label to GTA: San Andreas or Spec Ops: The Line.  The problem wasn't the black character or the anti-war themes, the problem was that there wasn't anything to back them up.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: mellenORL on April 05, 2016, 10:32:43 am
I find it especially depressing that this is a thing, virulent rage over pixel art, just a day after a man in New York took a plea bargain to spend only up to 12 years in prison for killing a transwoman by smashing her skull on the curb multiple times. He came up to her and flirted with her, then his friend started giggling about it, so of course, he felt obligated to kill her for existing and being polite enough to acknowledge him. She was a young NYC fashion industry employee. How dare she be so stylishly dressed? "I just didn't like being fooled", was his reason stated to police that night.

So yeah, why wouldn't the reactionary man-imals flip out over a pixel "tranny"? "Kill it!" Post the video. Pipe bomb the forums and review sections. Try to destroy another game development team. "We just didn't like being fooled".
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 05, 2016, 10:36:18 am
UP voice: To Kill a Mockingbird was written by Harper Lee, known SJW, in 1960. its anti-racism message is forced and has nothing to back it up

And Mellen, holy fuck. Welp, reminder that the world is empty of meaning, I guess.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 05, 2016, 10:39:12 am
I find it especially depressing that this is a thing, virulent rage over pixel art, just a day after a man in New York took a plea bargain to spend only up to 12 years in prison for killing a transwoman by smashing her skull on the curb multiple times. He came up to her and flirted with her, then his friend started giggling about it, so of course, he felt obligated to kill her for existing and being polite enough to acknowledge him. She was a young NYC fashion industry employee. How dare she be so stylishly dressed? "I just didn't like being fooled", was his reason stated to police that night.

So yeah, why wouldn't the reactionary man-imals flip out over a pixel "tranny"? "Kill it!" Post the video. Pipe bomb the forums and review sections. Try to destroy another game development team. "We just didn't like being fooled".

That's tragic and appaling, but what does it have to do with this?

And here's an open letter from a transwoman:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/228280/discussions/0/371918937272938521/#p1 (https://steamcommunity.com/app/228280/discussions/0/371918937272938521/#p1)

Quote
To Amber Scott from a trans woman

Thank you so much from a trans gamer for painting a target on our backs once again so you can virtue signal how progressive you are. It wouldn't be enough to just, I don't know, put a trans person in a game and have them there as a character. No, it has to be a political statement and you have to just let everyone know it. Otherwise how would people know how great you are as a person, and isn't that what social justice is really about? ... No, seriously, I'm actually starting to wonder that. This is the bloody Samus Aran thing all over again. It can't just be; "here's a fun fan theory make of it what you will," it's we're redefining samus' gender, and all of you can deal with it. Then the trans community gets painted as ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥s for trying to change a venorited IP while you guys get to dance off to the warm glow of praise from your ideological peers. Everytime you paint us as this 'other' you are putting in a game so people can be 'enlightened', and every time attitudes towards trans people are made just that much worse for the effort. YAY! Someone please save us from our so called saviors.

UP voice: To Kill a Mockingbird was written by Harper Lee, known SJW, in 1960. its anti-racism message is forced and has nothing to back it up

And Mellen, holy fuck. Welp, reminder that the world is empty of meaning, I guess.

(http://wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/files/2014/01/StrawMan2.jpg)

That is all.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 05, 2016, 10:43:54 am
...that's not really a gotcha, mate. Transgender people are not a hive mind and one transgender person does not represent all of transgenderdom. I know you struggle with the concept of not treating people who aren't you as this mysterious unfathomable Other, but come on, son.

And this is where I go back to ignoring UP again, because cleaning my penis with lemon juice is preferable to talking to him over an extended period of time.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 05, 2016, 10:46:31 am
...that's not really a gotcha, mate. Transgender people are not a hive mind and one transgender person does not represent all of transgenderdom. I know you struggle with the concept of not treating people who aren't you as this mysterious unfathomable Other, but come on, son.

True, but it does show that people aren't just complaining because they're transphobic.  Some probably are, but saying it's all of them is nothing more than a convenient excuse.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: mellenORL on April 05, 2016, 10:49:34 am
(using Windows 10/MS Edge - not fully functional with forum posting macro buttons)

UP:
Quote
That's tragic and appaling, but what does it have to do with this?

Um, just fucking everything, UP. Certain societal attitudes kill, as in they kill real people and the hatred is so extreme it even attacks mere artistic representations of people. Try the Black litmus test, where you switch the person or archetype being derided for a Black person or Black people in general.

Do you see the problem, now?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 05, 2016, 10:52:34 am
(using Windows 10/MS Edge - not fully functional with forum posting macro buttons)

UP:
Quote
That's tragic and appaling, but what does it have to do with this?

Um, just fucking everything, UP. Certain societal attitudes kill, as in they kill real people and the hatred is so extreme it even attacks mere artistic representations of people. Try the Black litmus test, where you switch the person or archetype being derided for a Black person or Black people in general.

Do you see the problem, now?

Why are you assuming this is based mainly on transphobia?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: mellenORL on April 05, 2016, 10:53:55 am
Because it is. And I think you actually realize that, but damned if you'll ever acknowledge it in a post.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 05, 2016, 10:59:42 am
Because it is. And I think you actually realize that, but damned if you'll ever acknowledge it in a post.

"Because it is."

Wow, what a convincing argument!

Seriously, do you have any actual evidence?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: ironbite on April 05, 2016, 11:15:46 am
I love it.  An optional NPC that you don't have to even talk to in a game that you don't have to play is ruining games forever.

Ironbite-such is the thin skin of that which shall not be mentioned outside flame and burn.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: SCarpelan on April 05, 2016, 11:16:08 am
A single minor NPC spoils a game so badly that people vote the whole game down on review sites apparently without even playing it. Gee, I wonder whan separates that particular character from other minor flavour NPCs. Maybe there is something that wakes up a lot of negative emotions on people and possibly is also reflected in real life events. Perhaps someone even posts a video that uses a bigoted term about the character in an article discussing the game. That kind of thing might be the most probable explanation for seemingly disproportionate hatred.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Svata on April 05, 2016, 11:19:40 am
Because it is. And I think you actually realize that, but damned if you'll ever acknowledge it in a post.

"Because it is."

Wow, what a convincing argument!

Seriously, do you have any actual evidence?

Maybe the fact that people are flipping the fuck out over there even being a trans person in the game? That's a sign.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 05, 2016, 11:22:17 am
A single minor NPC spoils a game so badly that people vote the whole game down on review sites apparently without even playing it. Gee, I wonder whan separates that particular character from other minor flavour NPCs. Maybe there is something that wakes up a lot of negative emotions on people and possibly is also reflected in real life events. Perhaps someone even posts a video that uses a bigoted term about the character in an article discussing the game. That kind of thing might be the most probable explanation for seemingly disproportionate hatred.

Because it is. And I think you actually realize that, but damned if you'll ever acknowledge it in a post.

"Because it is."

Wow, what a convincing argument!

Seriously, do you have any actual evidence?

Maybe the fact that people are flipping the fuck out over there even being a trans person in the game? That's a sign.

Here's my question: how much of the anger is because of Beamdog censoring their critics?

http://steamcommunity.com/app/228280/discussions/0/371918937275136476/ (http://steamcommunity.com/app/228280/discussions/0/371918937275136476/)

I don't doubt that there are some transphobes among the complainers, but saying it's all or even most of them is just an excuse.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 05, 2016, 11:28:36 am
None of the comments quoted in the article mentioned anything about people being """""censored""""" (and no, a privately-owned site refusing to give a platform, controversial though it may be, is not "censorship"). The transphobia came first, then this new shit.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Dakota Bob on April 05, 2016, 11:31:40 am
So I heard they put a gamergate joke into the game for some reason, and memes being written into shit is a serious trigger of mine. Can't stand that shit, same reason I can't stand the writing of the Borderlands games.

Also, are the Balders Gate games worth a shot still? I have all the original versions on GOG but not the updated versions? are the new ones worth the cash?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: mellenORL on April 05, 2016, 11:32:02 am
Oh yeah, here it is in a Nut's shell:

Exile  Apr 4 @ 6:29am   
Quote
Originally posted by Dee:
If you're only here to hop on the GamerGate/KotakuInAction bandwagon, or to spout abuses at the LGBTQ community or one of our writers, you're not welcome here; don't be surprised if your posting privileges get revoked.

Yeah you'd like it to be about that but it's not. Your company went out of its way to upset people and now some people are upset and using a publicly visible forum to express it. You can pretend its some mission or w/e idc but it's not. You might see what is happening here but I really see what is happening here and you guys are making rookie mistakes in dealing with this.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 05, 2016, 11:35:13 am
"The mean game made a joke that doesn't attack my movement in the slightest!"
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: RavynousHunter on April 05, 2016, 11:37:17 am
"Oh noes, how dare they include a trap transsexual in an RPG?  What's next, having to accept that filthy homos are real and deserving of respect?  Not in my games, you filthy queers SJWs!"

- The Knob Goblin Horde
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 05, 2016, 11:45:18 am
None of the comments quoted in the article mentioned anything about people being """""censored""""" (and no, a privately-owned site refusing to give a platform is not "censorship", learn what words mean you ape).

The one-sided article, you mean.  And are you really using "argument from definition?"

The article is also factually wrong.  On GOG, at least, there are a number of reviews that say absolutely nothing about the trans character.  Examples:

Quote
Patch 2.0/Dragonspear made Baldurs Gate EE a worse game for a number of reasons.
-random crashes
-mods aren't working properly any longer
-questionable graphic update (they managed to make a 16 year old game look WORSE than on release) I know, these are optional, but when i first started the game after the update i just couldn't believe it how ugly it looked. Funnily enough, the preview screenshots here and on steam don't show the ugly new sprites.
-questionable difficulty changes. Why the f*** does the game lower the difficulty after a few reloads by itself, without asking. I realized this awesome "feature" when i reached the so called "Story mode" which sets all stats to 25 and adds a ton of immunity. Basically Godmode. Obviously i thought it was a bug and tried to reload my game again. Well, i figured it out eventually. What a terrible feature.
-Voice acting The voice acting in the addon breaks the feel of the original game. I know, many people hate to read and prefer voiced dialogues. But Baldurs Gate has its own style and if suddenly whole dialogues are voiced it just feels out of place and you know immediately that it doesn't belongs to the game. It just feels wrong. They could have saved the money for the (mediocre actually) voice acting and spend it on fixing bugs.
-Multiplayer Its working barely at best.
So far this addon has been a huge disappointment. The worst thing is: Even if i refund it, the terrible patch 2.0 will stay. I guess i will let the EE games rest and play the original games with mods for a while. Maybe Beamdog gets their shit together and fixes the issues and i can enjoy playing EE. Hopefully this time it won't take them whole year.
PS (kinda unrelated on GoG): Steam Achievments are buggy as hell too. Some won't unlock. Others do unlock for the wrong quest... its a mess.

Quote
Bad writing aside, the content is full of bugs. The developers have also broken almost all mod compatibillity, causing dialogue errors and other issues. The new UI changes are questionable at best, and downright broken at worst. Game is unplayable in Multiplayer. The fact that this has been in development for 5 years makes you wonder how much effort they even put into it.

Quote
What a let down. Thankfully, I was able to watch some of the actual in game footage from Youtube before purchasing this abomination. A good example of what happens when the wrong people gain access to a great IP. If you're interested in what specifically I take issue with well here goes: 1. The visuals are very dated. I love old school games, but this is just lazy. 2. Most players have reported poor experience with the multiplayer. 3. Poor writing. I can forgive horrible visuals for a great story line, but that's not the case here.
If you're looking for a great old school experience, I suggest that you find the original Baldur's Gate. The mod community has made it able to withstand the effects of time to a bit.

Quote
Exactly what I said it's a horrid piece of crap and a abomination to the beloved baldur's gate franchise that we all know and love. In fact it's sooo bad I dare refuse and won't even call this a baldur's gate game or even apart of the franchise and infact im just calling this game garbage from now on. After the game crashed 5 times in a single hour I got fed up, had enough and installed it and had my money refunded. Also the voice acting is incredibly terrible they took a franchise and single handedly ripped the heart and soul out of it.

Quote
All I know is this, I went to start over Baldurs gate: EE before playing Dragonspear, aside from the crap graphics, and re worked UI (which no one asked for), my game crashed about 10 times in a row when I went into the training basement right at the beginning of the game. This never happened before the update. I am going to have to re-buy the original game now, because EE is broke AF. Did I mention the graphics? It looks like someone chewed up borderlands and deficated it back out on top of everyone in BG. The more you zoom in on a battle the more ridiculous it becomes.....how someone green lit that is beyond anything I could possibly comprehend.

So yeah, the expansion's a glitchy, poorly-written, poorly-acted mess that puts Sonic 06 to shame.  Saying it's hated because of transphobia is ridiculous.  It's no different from Oliver Stone saying Alexander bombed because critics and audiences were homophobic, when in reality, it was because the theatrical cut just wasn't very good.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 05, 2016, 11:59:36 am
Here's the thing, shitheel: that doesn't mutually exclude the transphobia. It doesn't make the transphobia magically go away if some people hate it for its mechanical qualities. No one has said that literally every single person who hates the game hates it because they're transphobes, or that transphobia is the only reason the game is hated.

Then again, asking you to actually read articles would be too much for your capacity.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 05, 2016, 12:02:07 pm
Here's the thing, shitheel: that doesn't mutually exclude the transphobia. It doesn't make the transphobia magically go away if some people hate it for its mechanical qualities.

I never said it did, and I don't doubt that some of the game's critics are transphobic.  But it does seriously undermine the claims that the game is widely hated because of transphobia.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 05, 2016, 12:04:07 pm
Okay, fuckmunch: how much is "widely" for you?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 05, 2016, 12:06:42 pm
Okay, fuckmunch: how much is "widely" for you?

Just to clarify, are you talking about the hatred in general, or that based on transphobia?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 05, 2016, 12:09:15 pm
You know damn well what I mean. What arbitrary percentage of the shit-talking slung at Baldur's Gate has to include transphobia for you to take your head out of your ass and see that the transphobia is a primary motivator?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 05, 2016, 12:11:30 pm
You know damn well what I mean. What arbitrary percentage of the shit-talking slung at Baldur's Gate has to include transphobia for you to take your head out of your ass and see that the transphobia is a primary motivator?

Just off the top of my head, I'd say 35% minimum.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 05, 2016, 12:19:04 pm
Well, you quoted five comments and the article quotes eight, so right now we're at ~61%. I'll just extrapolate from that since I have better things to do with my life than slog through pages upon pages of whiny gamers. Like, for instance, biting my own taint.

That also applies to talking to UP, now that I think of it.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 05, 2016, 12:23:55 pm
Well, you quoted five comments and the article quotes eight, so right now we're at ~61%. I'll just extrapolate from that since I have better things to do with my life than slog through pages upon pages of whiny gamers. Like, for instance, biting my own taint.

That also applies to talking to UP, now that I think of it.

How, exactly, are those reviews "transphobic?"  Seriously, I'd like an explanation.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: mellenORL on April 05, 2016, 12:57:17 pm
Dude, I can just see you squeezing it slowly when you post your sweet nothings like that.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Askold on April 05, 2016, 01:05:26 pm
UP, you are not this stupid. Stop feigning ignorance. You are no longer debating to win us over or even trying to win with debate school rules. You are acting like a suspect in court.

"Did you stab your wife?"

"What does the word 'stab' mean? Can you explain it to me I am unfamiliar with it."

"We caught you covered in blood standing over her and with a knife in your hands!"

"That doesn't prove anything. How do you know it was her blood?"

"We tested the DNA 15 times!"

"But can you prove that the rest of the blood was hers? Those 15 drops may be hers (heres a link to a study I haven't read about DNA test reliability) but the rest might belong to someone else. Can you prove that a substantial amount of the blood is hers?"
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: mellenORL on April 05, 2016, 01:07:49 pm
Whenever he's losing, he's wanking. Modus Operandi.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 05, 2016, 01:21:44 pm
Since I made the mistake of opening a UP comment, I'm going to give his unworthy ass my time and painstakingly explain the point of view that says these comments are transphobic. Because I hate myself.

- "T**nny" is a transphobic slur. A slur is a term that is used to demean, dehumanize or marginalize a group of people.
- The view that the mere existence of a transgender character in a game, or said character's identity being referenced, is "social justice garbage" or "SJW politics" is transphobic because transgender characters/people existing is not inherently social leftist propaganda (again, words mean things), and saying that transgender characters can only exist as a political vehicle prohibits transgender characters from being an organic part of a fictional universe.
- "Transvestite" and "transgender person" are two different things; to equate the two is transphobic erasure.
- "Born a man"
- "a tr***y that doesn't fit the lore" implies that transgender characters in and of themselves don't belong in Baldur's Gate lore (or, implicitly, fantasy in general) since from what I can tell, war god priests aren't exactly a violation of Baldur worldbuilding.
- Literally saying that "political opinions" (which is a dogwhistle for "a transgender person exists and mentions her identity in an optional dialogue path") don't belong in Baldur's Gate (or, implicitly, gaming)
- "We are trying to ESCAPE having to deal with the existence of non-cishet people, but I'm totally not a bigot"
- "the existence of a transgender person offends us, remove her from the game"
- "let me discover the transgender woman for myself instead of forcing me to mingle with non-cishets" I understand that UP is deliberately missing all of this and will continue to plug his ears because he's UP, by the way, but I'm in that ranting mood
- "it's not natural for this transgender character to talk about her identity so openly, now please excuse me as I kill a dragon with a magic sword I got from a god" (I don't even know if BG has dragons, I haven't played it, substitute something else there if there aren't)
- "it's not natural for this transgender character to talk about her identity so openly, transgender characters need to jump through the Hoops of a Thousand Fuckboys before they're allowed to talk about their identity"
- the existence of a transgender character is not a goddamn lecture on gender politics, transgender characters and people can exist apolitically you gatekeeping fuckos

That got ranty at the end there, but I hope I've made myself clear. And I hope I haven't spoken out of turn; as a cis person, my understanding of the topic is second-hand, but that's how I understand it at least. I don't mean to make myself a high authority on this or anything.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Belloc on April 05, 2016, 01:34:27 pm
Developers remove a pose from a game.

"Stop censoring human expression!"

Developers include a transgender character in a game.

"Stop promoting human expression!"
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 05, 2016, 01:37:42 pm
Basically.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: The_Queen on April 05, 2016, 01:58:44 pm
Since I made the mistake of opening a UP comment, I'm going to give his unworthy ass my time and painstakingly explain the point of view that says these comments are transphobic. Because I hate myself.

- "T**nny" is a transphobic slur. A slur is a term that is used to demean, dehumanize or marginalize a group of people.
- The view that the mere existence of a transgender character in a game, or said character's identity being referenced, is "social justice garbage" or "SJW politics" is transphobic because transgender characters/people existing is not inherently social leftist propaganda (again, words mean things), and saying that transgender characters can only exist as a political vehicle prohibits transgender characters from being an organic part of a fictional universe.
- "Transvestite" and "transgender person" are two different things; to equate the two is transphobic erasure.
- "Born a man"
- "a tr***y that doesn't fit the lore" implies that transgender characters in and of themselves don't belong in Baldur's Gate lore (or, implicitly, fantasy in general) since from what I can tell, war god priests aren't exactly a violation of Baldur worldbuilding.
- Literally saying that "political opinions" (which is a dogwhistle for "a transgender person exists and mentions her identity in an optional dialogue path") don't belong in Baldur's Gate (or, implicitly, gaming)
- "We are trying to ESCAPE having to deal with the existence of non-cishet people, but I'm totally not a bigot"
- "the existence of a transgender person offends us, remove her from the game"
- "let me discover the transgender woman for myself instead of forcing me to mingle with non-cishets" I understand that UP is deliberately missing all of this and will continue to plug his ears because he's UP, by the way, but I'm in that ranting mood
- "it's not natural for this transgender character to talk about her identity so openly, now please excuse me as I kill a dragon with a magic sword I got from a god" (I don't even know if BG has dragons, I haven't played it, substitute something else there if there aren't)
- "it's not natural for this transgender character to talk about her identity so openly, transgender characters need to jump through the Hoops of a Thousand Fuckboys before they're allowed to talk about their identity"
- the existence of a transgender character is not a goddamn lecture on gender politics, transgender characters and people can exist apolitically you gatekeeping fuckos

That got ranty at the end there, but I hope I've made myself clear. And I hope I haven't spoken out of turn; as a cis person, my understanding of the topic is second-hand, but that's how I understand it at least. I don't mean to make myself a high authority on this or anything.

Eh, I give it my stamp of approval. Since the dialogue isn't even mandatory, it really just highlights that the crux of the beef against her is the existence of trannsexuals in a video game. Likewise, there are plenty of transpeople I know who are entirely honest about being trans, so expecting her to be quiet about it really just stems from being uncomfortable with the notion of a trans person being, well, a person.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Katsuro on April 05, 2016, 02:15:45 pm
Dunno if someone's already brought this up but gamers do remember Poison from Final Fight/Street Fighter, right?  I don't remember anyone giving a fuck about her being trans.  I know that her being trans was only done as an after thought to get around the issue of hitting women for the western market (which in itself is full of it's own issues, like how Capcom presumably thinks hitting trans women is ok if they used to have a penis because they're not real women or that they think that's how westerners think, or something equally as shitty) but I think its still relevant.  Video games, especially Japanese ones for some reason, are also full of androgynous characters, like Leo from Tekken, Elliot from DoA and pretty much fucking everyone in every JRPG.  So why is this suddenly a big deal to these fuckmonkeys?

I also feel that the fact that it's common for players of both video games and table-top RPG type games to create and play as a character of a different gender than their own is relevant too, as is gender swapping character in fan art and cos-play.  I'm not quite sure how exactly but in my defense I am tired as all fuck.

Edit: Googled some trans video game characters and there's even more than I was aware of.

http://www.out.com/entertainment/popnography/2013/11/03/7-trans-friendly-video-game-characters
https://transgamersociologist.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/a-brief-history-of-transgender-characters-in-video-games/

There's even more if you include all the deliberately androgynous/gender non-specific characters.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 05, 2016, 02:33:49 pm
Dunno if someone's already brought this up but gamers do remember Poison from Final Fight/Street Fighter, right?  I don't remember anyone giving a fuck about her being trans.  I know that her being trans was only done as an after thought to get around the issue of hitting women for the western market (which in itself is full of it's own issues, like how Capcom presumably thinks hitting trans women is ok if they used to have a penis because they're not real women or that they think that's how westerners think, or something equally as shitty) but I think its still relevant.  Video games, especially Japanese ones for some reason, are also full of androgynous characters, like Leo from Tekken, Elliot from DoA and pretty much fucking everybody in the Final Fantasy series.  So why is this suddenly a big deal to this fuckmonkeys?

I also feel that the fact that it's common for players of both video games and table-top RPG type games to create and play as a character of a different gender than their own is relevant too, as is gender swapping character is fan art and cos-play.  I'm not quite sure how exactly but in my defense I am tired as all fuck.

Because Poison is an actual character.

Anyway, allow me to take a look at the reviews cited:

(click to show/hide)
Besides, listing those reviews and only those reviews was pretty blatant cherry-picking.

Edit 2: Here's the Steam front page as of right now:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Askold on April 05, 2016, 02:52:25 pm
Because Poison is an actual character.

Explain. The average character in old fighting games only has enough character to fill a few lines of backstory on the manual and possibly a text screen if you win the game with that character. Meanwhile Baldur's Gate has generally had well written NPCs with whom you can talk to and the companions have an adventure or two relating to them not to mention them commenting on things that happen in the game.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 05, 2016, 02:55:40 pm
Because Poison is an actual character.

Explain. The average character in old fighting games only has enough character to fill a few lines of backstory on the manual and possibly a text screen if you win the game with that character. Meanwhile Baldur's Gate has generally had well written NPCs with whom you can talk to and the companions have an adventure or two relating to them not to mention them commenting on things that happen in the game.

What I mean is that her character doesn't revolve around her being trans.  And from what I've been hearing, that's not the case for Mizhena.  I haven't checked it out for myself, though, so I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 05, 2016, 03:14:26 pm
See, Askold, Mizhena actually mentions her gender as opposed to stuffing it away in the author's notes, where it won't offend UP. Therefore, she's not an actual character, but rather a dreaded SJW Borg Mindcontrolled Drone. Nevermind that she's also established from the get-go as a pious priest and that her gender is a piece of trivia buried underneath one of her dialogue branches. No, she just revolves around being transgender. Because that's how all non-cishet characters work.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Askold on April 05, 2016, 03:18:07 pm
Because Poison is an actual character.

Explain. The average character in old fighting games only has enough character to fill a few lines of backstory on the manual and possibly a text screen if you win the game with that character. Meanwhile Baldur's Gate has generally had well written NPCs with whom you can talk to and the companions have an adventure or two relating to them not to mention them commenting on things that happen in the game.

What I mean is that her character doesn't revolve around her being trans.  And from what I've been hearing, that's not the case for Mizhena.  I haven't checked it out for myself, though, so I could be wrong.

...So once again you are going on based on rumours.

It has already been proven in this thread that the character doesn't just jump in and announce that they are trans. That is only something that comes up IF you start talking to them and ask about their personal life.

And honestly, it does not make sense to me that there would automatically be a stigma for transpeople in Forgotten Realms. They have spells that can turn males into females or vice versa. Granted that this is normally used as a curse to strike on unwitting victims (who most likely will not appreciate this) but it still means that they are likely to have means of doing the same to people who wish such a change. Or you can simply buy one of the malfunctioning magical items that give the same effect as a curse. In either case it would likely be as easily available as other magical cures are.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: ironbite on April 05, 2016, 03:27:39 pm
*munches popcorn*

Ironbite-this has been rather amusing watching UP be super thick.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 05, 2016, 03:30:16 pm
See, Askold, Mizhena actually mentions her gender as opposed to stuffing it away in the author's notes, where it won't offend UP. Therefore, she's not an actual character, but rather a dreaded SJW Borg Mindcontrolled Drone. Nevermind that she's also established from the get-go as a pious priest and that her gender is a piece of trivia buried underneath one of her dialogue branches. No, she just revolves around being transgender. Because that's how all non-cishet characters work.

I legitimately didn't know that.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Svata on April 05, 2016, 03:35:06 pm
It was already mentioned in this very fucking thread, you twatwaffle!
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Askold on April 05, 2016, 03:38:59 pm
Either he doesn't read our comments OR he is merely acting like a moron again.


...Honestly, UP is there something wrong with you? I know I already made the joke about you acting as dense as a suspect in court but unless you are doing this on purpose the only other option I can think of is that you are merely skimming a few of our comments and you aren't even looking into any of the topics and merely parroting information that others feed to you.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Katsuro on April 05, 2016, 03:41:29 pm
...They have spells that can turn males into females or vice versa...

This is a bit of a tangent and not totally relevant, but that just reminded me in Norse mythology isn't Loki the mother of Odin's horse, Sleipnir?  You'd think fans of lore/mythology rich RPG's and adventure games would be into real life ancient mythology, and who doesn't love MOTHERFUCKNG VIKINGS?!  (And before someone says the so-called "viking era" was medieval not ancient - yes but the religion predates the "viking era".)

I know it's going back a bit but to me that added to the stupidity of all the butthurt over Marvel's new Thor being a woman.  And yeah I do realise that Thor in Norse mythology is not a shape-shifter like Loki but that's kind of splitting hairs, the point is people were annoyed about a character getting gender swapped when that character is taken from a real-world religion were certain characters can change genders at will (not to mention the fact said Marvel character had also been a horse-faced alien at one point).  Plus it's not like the comics are all that true to the real mythology anyway so the fact it's Thor and not Loki being made female isn't all that relevant to the argument to my mind.

But I digress.  Back to the show...
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: SCarpelan on April 05, 2016, 03:43:55 pm
Even if she had very little other characterization than being transwoman it wouldn't matter. That kind of throwaway minor NPCs can be used to flesh out the world and in that case the fleshing out would be to let player know that transpeople exist in that world, too.

If she was a significant character plotwise and had no real characterization besides being trans then her character would actually be problematic in many ways.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 05, 2016, 03:52:42 pm
Also, the original Thor didn't stop existing or anything. IIRC, someone new just became worthy of the hammer and gained Thor powers, along with Thor's divine task on Earth or some bollocks. And yeah, Loki turned into a mare and seduced some giant dude's horse so the giant couldn't finish a wall on time.

Back to the show; I love how the complaints of some of these entitled brats are "Waaah, I'm not allowed to be transphobic in this game! Me not being able to be bigoted in this game is GAMER OPPRESSION!"

@SCarpe: Why do I get the feeling that if that fluff bit of Mizhena's was about her having, say, a sister who's a rogue, these assmasters wouldn't be whining about her character revolving around that?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Belloc on April 05, 2016, 03:54:17 pm
Serious question: if the inclusion of this character is pushing an agenda, what would NOT be pushing an agenda? The character does nothing but exist and happens to be transgender (a quality that is only revealed after optional dialogue choices). It is the base-line minimum of existence. If this is promoting an agenda, what isn't?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 05, 2016, 03:58:38 pm
Obviously, for gaming to remain a white cishet paradise.

...I'm not even kidding, that's probably what they would consider 'not pushing an agenda' since their qualification for pushing an agenda is "a transgender character exists".
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 05, 2016, 04:02:24 pm
Obviously, for gaming to remain a white cishet paradise.

...I'm not even kidding, that's probably what they would consider 'not pushing an agenda' since their qualification for pushing an agenda is "a transgender character exists".

Should I refer you to the transwoman who said she was only in there to make a political statement?  And if this is about anger over the mere existence of a trans character, why haven't gamers been up in arms over other trans characters?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 05, 2016, 04:04:24 pm
Should I refer you to the fact that nowhere did I use the words "all" or "every single one of them"? You disingenuous hack?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ironchew on April 05, 2016, 04:08:09 pm
Either he doesn't read our comments OR he is merely acting like a moron again.


...Honestly, UP is there something wrong with you? I know I already made the joke about you acting as dense as a suspect in court but unless you are doing this on purpose the only other option I can think of is that you are merely skimming a few of our comments and you aren't even looking into any of the topics and merely parroting information that others feed to you.

I'm starting to agree with Queen that there's something extremely fishy about UP getting his ass handed to him while six guests lurk in the background.

Dare I say they're giving him tips and tricks through other channels.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Cloud3514 on April 05, 2016, 04:12:28 pm
Should I refer you to the transwoman who said she was only in there to make a political statement?  And if this is about anger over the mere existence of a trans character, why haven't gamers been up in arms over other trans characters?

Dragon Age: Inquisition, anyone?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Askold on April 05, 2016, 04:20:35 pm
Should I refer you to the transwoman who said she was only in there to make a political statement?  And if this is about anger over the mere existence of a trans character, why haven't gamers been up in arms over other trans characters?
There usually are complaints but this time they added an LGBT character to an addon of an older game so this is double plus ungood just like making a comic book character who was previously straight into an LGBT character is also seen as worse than adding a new one.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: The_Queen on April 05, 2016, 04:22:10 pm
Serious question: if the inclusion of this character is pushing an agenda, what would NOT be pushing an agenda? The character does nothing but exist and happens to be transgender (a quality that is only revealed after optional dialogue choices). It is the base-line minimum of existence. If this is promoting an agenda, what isn't?

Simple, in Paragon's mind, white, straight, cis, men are allowed to exist, explore the world, have opinions, and do as they will. The minute that a character is not one of those qualities, it amounts to pushing an agenda against white, straight, cis, men. And really, white, straight, cis, men are the most oppressed people in America right now.

And, if you think I am kidding or being too SJW by saying this, I would like to point out that a former Admin of this board has said as much non-facetiously.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: ironbite on April 05, 2016, 04:23:29 pm
Either he doesn't read our comments OR he is merely acting like a moron again.


...Honestly, UP is there something wrong with you? I know I already made the joke about you acting as dense as a suspect in court but unless you are doing this on purpose the only other option I can think of is that you are merely skimming a few of our comments and you aren't even looking into any of the topics and merely parroting information that others feed to you.

I'm starting to agree with Queen that there's something extremely fishy about UP getting his ass handed to him while six guests lurk in the background.

Dare I say they're giving him tips and tricks through other channels.

That's just paranoia talking.  I mean if there was 5-6 people actually controlling the UP account it would explain a lot of things about him.  But then again I deal with Skyfire on a regular basis and I know how stupid someone can be.

Ironbite-the answer is very.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 05, 2016, 04:24:34 pm
Should I refer you to the transwoman who said she was only in there to make a political statement?  And if this is about anger over the mere existence of a trans character, why haven't gamers been up in arms over other trans characters?

Dragon Age: Inquisition, anyone?

Are you talking about Krem?  Because his reception was mostly positive according to BioWare.

Serious question: if the inclusion of this character is pushing an agenda, what would NOT be pushing an agenda? The character does nothing but exist and happens to be transgender (a quality that is only revealed after optional dialogue choices). It is the base-line minimum of existence. If this is promoting an agenda, what isn't?

Simple, in Paragon's mind, white, straight, cis, men are allowed to exist, explore the world, have opinions, and do as they will. The minute that a character is not one of those qualities, it amounts to pushing an agenda against white, straight, cis, men. And really, white, straight, cis, men are the most oppressed people in America right now.

And, if you think I am kidding or being too SJW by saying this, I would like to point out that a former Admin of this board has said as much non-facetiously.

Yeah, keep hammering at that strawman!  That'll show those me!
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Art Vandelay on April 05, 2016, 04:34:11 pm
Quick question. UP, have you actually played the new Baldur's Gate expansion?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 05, 2016, 04:37:03 pm
Quick question. UP, have you actually played the new Baldur's Gate expansion?

No.  It's a glitchy mess.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Art Vandelay on April 05, 2016, 04:38:37 pm
Just as I thought.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: ironbite on April 05, 2016, 05:40:28 pm
What you expected him to actually play the thing he's bitching about?

Ironbite-that's adorable.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ironchew on April 05, 2016, 06:01:20 pm
What you expected him to actually play the thing he's bitching about?

Ironbite-that's adorable.

I suspect UP doesn't play video games. It may be unfounded; after all, I play video games and I don't talk about them much on FQA, but he seems to obsess over gaming culture to such a degree that his lack of discussion about anything else vidya-related is bizarre.

It's like he uses gaming as convenient ammo in his anti-feminism stockpile instead of an actual hobby.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: davedan on April 05, 2016, 07:10:06 pm
Ironchew: That would explain the fact that he doesn't care about Milo whateverthefuck bagging gamers because really he thinks their pimply little mouthbreathers as well.

Even Then: I never realised what a flexible hardcore masochist you are. Lemon juice to clean your cock? Flexible enough to bite your own taint? And most masochistic of all continually answering UP expecting him to either read your answer or to respond with any modicum of good faith.

Mellen: That's a terribly sad story about that woman being murdered. The fact that the prosecution were prepared to accept a plea on manslaughter rather than run the risk of an acquittal in this day and age on the tranny surprise defence, in circumstances where she was being street harrased. Fucking heartbreaking.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: rookie on April 05, 2016, 07:59:17 pm
Either he doesn't read our comments OR he is merely acting like a moron again.


...Honestly, UP is there something wrong with you? I know I already made the joke about you acting as dense as a suspect in court but unless you are doing this on purpose the only other option I can think of is that you are merely skimming a few of our comments and you aren't even looking into any of the topics and merely parroting information that others feed to you.

I'm starting to agree with Queen that there's something extremely fishy about UP getting his ass handed to him while six guests lurk in the background.

Dare I say they're giving him tips and tricks through other channels.

Nah. He's just a very dedicated troll. He has no real personal opinions on any of this. He's just shit posting to get us all riled up. That's all.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on April 05, 2016, 08:43:07 pm
Either he doesn't read our comments OR he is merely acting like a moron again.


...Honestly, UP is there something wrong with you? I know I already made the joke about you acting as dense as a suspect in court but unless you are doing this on purpose the only other option I can think of is that you are merely skimming a few of our comments and you aren't even looking into any of the topics and merely parroting information that others feed to you.

I'm starting to agree with Queen that there's something extremely fishy about UP getting his ass handed to him while six guests lurk in the background.

Dare I say they're giving him tips and tricks through other channels.

Nah. He's just a very dedicated troll. He has no real personal opinions on any of this. He's just shit posting to get us all riled up. That's all.
As shown by the last six pages of shitposting. The linked article has a video entitled "Baldurs gate misogyny tranny abuse" where the character under discussion is murdered by the party for saying that they're trans. The article also has a bunch of shitposting "reviews" where the readers primary concern was the existence of teh trans "shoving agendas" down their collective maws and he's spent the last couple of hours trying to argue that criticism of the expansion has nothing to do with transphobia, nothing, zip, nada, none.

Putting aside the whole "ethics in reviews thing" where you are at least supposed to play the fucking thing before shooting off your mouth he's developed a whole raft of opinions on how broken and glitchy it taking at their word people who first decided they hated it because of the existence of filthy trans people and then went looking for, or perhaps flat out inventing, other problems.

Why is he getting more contrarian than Contrarian over a bunch of spotty twerps downvoting a game because it has trans in it? IMO it's passive aggressive revenge for FQA not jumping on his two-year crusade to get us all on the GG train.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 05, 2016, 08:52:49 pm
I'm not saying there's no transphobic backlash, I'm just saying it's greatly exaggerated.  The idea that its negative reception is based on transphobia simply doesn't hold water.  Dragon Age: Inquisition also had a trans supporting character, and the game has a much higher user rating on Metacritic.  Fact is, Beamdog made a shitty expansion, and they're trying to blame the gamers for not liking it.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: The_Queen on April 05, 2016, 08:59:21 pm
I'm not saying there's no transphobic backlash, I'm just saying it's greatly exaggerated.  The idea that its negative reception is based on transphobia simply doesn't hold water.  Dragon Age: Inquisition also had a trans supporting character, and the game has a much higher user rating on Metacritic.  Fact is, Beamdog made a shitty expansion, and they're trying to blame the gamers for not liking it.

You also said 8-Chan being a den of pedos held no water...

Also, Even Then has already destroyed your claim about the backlash not being motivated by transphobia. All you're doing is playing the role of a know-nothing, and come on dude. I assume you're a child, but at least act like a mature high-schooler and recognize when someone present evidence that you don't know what you're talking about.

And much like all those sources that you cite but never read, you're now criticizing a game that you've never played. It's quite comical.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 05, 2016, 09:00:41 pm
I'm not saying there's no transphobic backlash, I'm just saying it's greatly exaggerated.  The idea that its negative reception is based on transphobia simply doesn't hold water.  Dragon Age: Inquisition also had a trans supporting character, and the game has a much higher user rating on Metacritic.  Fact is, Beamdog made a shitty expansion, and they're trying to blame the gamers for not liking it.

You also said 8-Chan being a den of pedos held no water...

Also, Even Then has already destroyed your claim about the backlash not being motivated by transphobia. All you're doing is playing the role of a know-nothing, and come on dude. I assume you're a child, but at least act like a mature high-schooler and recognize when someone present evidence that you don't know what you're talking about.

And much like all those sources that you cite but never read, you're now criticizing a game that you've never played. It's quite comical.

A bunch of cherry-picked reviews represent the entirety of the backlash?  If anybody's the know-nothing, it's you.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: davedan on April 05, 2016, 09:02:01 pm
I am rubber you are glue what bounces off me sticks to you. Na nah
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: The_Queen on April 05, 2016, 09:17:49 pm
I'm not saying there's no transphobic backlash, I'm just saying it's greatly exaggerated.  The idea that its negative reception is based on transphobia simply doesn't hold water.  Dragon Age: Inquisition also had a trans supporting character, and the game has a much higher user rating on Metacritic.  Fact is, Beamdog made a shitty expansion, and they're trying to blame the gamers for not liking it.

You also said 8-Chan being a den of pedos held no water...

Also, Even Then has already destroyed your claim about the backlash not being motivated by transphobia. All you're doing is playing the role of a know-nothing, and come on dude. I assume you're a child, but at least act like a mature high-schooler and recognize when someone present evidence that you don't know what you're talking about.

And much like all those sources that you cite but never read, you're now criticizing a game that you've never played. It's quite comical.

A bunch of cherry-picked reviews represent the entirety of the backlash?  If anybody's the know-nothing, it's you.

Gah, I was set to win this debate, but then you dropped that masterful argument. My plans my be ruined this time, but mark my words, you will rue the day that, like the phoenix from the ashes, I arise and seek revenge for being defeated this time.

(a(g+a)(i+n))
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Svata on April 05, 2016, 10:16:02 pm
So I missed the may in your statement, Queen, and read it as "My plans be ruined again" and now I can't stop thinking of Harley Quinn in a pirate costume.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: The_Queen on April 05, 2016, 11:10:57 pm
So I missed the may in your statement, Queen, and read it as "My plans be ruined again" and now I can't stop thinking of Harley Quinn in a pirate costume.

I did make a typo and exclude the "a" in "may," so that is a possible reading of that post (either the inclusion of my was a typo, or the exclusion of the "a"). Either way, a ditzy typo, and I like your interpretation of it more than my initial intention.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Askold on April 06, 2016, 12:42:37 am
...I had to google "pirate Harley" and I have to admit there are a lot more pictures than I would have assumed. Then again, I didn't remember that there was some "bat-pirate" storyline and Joker (and presumably other Batman villains as well) are also in pirate costumes.

Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Cloud3514 on April 06, 2016, 02:00:22 am
Are you talking about Krem?  Because his reception was mostly positive according to BioWare.

Which only tells me that your ilk is only a vocal minority. A rather relieving fact, actually.

No, I'm referring to your ilk's response to it. They freaked the fuck out, your favorite "ethical journalist" wrote a "review" that I've pointed out to you at least twice and your ilk thought that "review" was absolutely hilarious. Yes, the response was mostly positive, as is the response to this expansion (about 2/3rd positive reviews on Steam, despite your ilk's best efforts), but there was still a vocal minority, and you know exactly who it was, that said exactly the same shit about Dragon Age: Inquisition that they're saying about Dragonspear.

It has been proven that the most vocal dissent towards Dragonspear is in response to the trans character. Are there plenty of people unhappy with it for other reasons? Sure, but they aren't the problem or the subject of discussion. The problem is that transphobic assholes are bitching and moaning about it, regardless of whether or not they actually play the game, and they are the loudest group responding to the expansion.

I pointed out Dragon Age: Inquisition so you would hopefully realize that this idiotic and hateful outrage is nothing out of the ordinary for your ilk. Now, in fairness, the backlash was more due to how the game's press was praising it for its progressive portrayal of LGBT folks, but the point stands.

And to act like a trans character is out of character for Bioware is hilarious. Bioware has included LGBT characters since at least Knights of the Old Republic, or did you forget that Juhani is bisexual?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Art Vandelay on April 06, 2016, 02:53:46 am
And to act like a trans character is out of character for Bioware is hilarious. Bioware has included LGBT characters since at least Knights of the Old Republic, or did you forget that Juhani is bisexual?
I thought she's a lesbian. As I recall, only a female player character can romance her.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 06, 2016, 03:35:38 am
Oh I know UP isn't going to respond in good faith. He's UP. He's incapable of it. (see: thinking that a person literally asking Beamdog to remove a  transgender character for being offensive is only unconsciously transphobic.) But he's just so inane that he keeps dragging me back in whenever my curiosity compels me to open a comment of his. And ranting at him can pass the time and relieve stress, in limited doses. (It also lets me come up with new and entertaining insults.)

UP: No one here has said that the transphobia is the entirety of it, you cockgrater.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Cloud3514 on April 06, 2016, 03:58:27 am
I thought she's a lesbian. As I recall, only a female player character can romance her.

Nope. Both male and female Revans can "romance" her, but its implied in all cases that its one sided. Her admitting feelings for Revan is the cap of her arc and there's not really a way to reciprocate feelings.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Art Vandelay on April 06, 2016, 04:09:08 am
I thought she's a lesbian. As I recall, only a female player character can romance her.

Nope. Both male and female Revans can "romance" her, but its implied in all cases that its one sided. Her admitting feelings for Revan is the cap of her arc and there's not really a way to reciprocate feelings.

According to the Wiki, she's a lesbian, and male Revan being able to romance her was a bug that eventually got fixed with a patch.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Cloud3514 on April 06, 2016, 04:55:32 am
Huh. I guess that explains how I got her confessing in my forst playthrough with a male Revan all those years ago.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 06, 2016, 09:28:41 am
Are you talking about Krem?  Because his reception was mostly positive according to BioWare.

Which only tells me that your ilk is only a vocal minority. A rather relieving fact, actually.

No, I'm referring to your ilk's response to it. They freaked the fuck out, your favorite "ethical journalist" wrote a "review" that I've pointed out to you at least twice and your ilk thought that "review" was absolutely hilarious. Yes, the response was mostly positive, as is the response to this expansion (about 2/3rd positive reviews on Steam, despite your ilk's best efforts), but there was still a vocal minority, and you know exactly who it was, that said exactly the same shit about Dragon Age: Inquisition that they're saying about Dragonspear.

It has been proven that the most vocal dissent towards Dragonspear is in response to the trans character. Are there plenty of people unhappy with it for other reasons? Sure, but they aren't the problem or the subject of discussion. The problem is that transphobic assholes are bitching and moaning about it, regardless of whether or not they actually play the game, and they are the loudest group responding to the expansion.

I pointed out Dragon Age: Inquisition so you would hopefully realize that this idiotic and hateful outrage is nothing out of the ordinary for your ilk. Now, in fairness, the backlash was more due to how the game's press was praising it for its progressive portrayal of LGBT folks, but the point stands.

And to act like a trans character is out of character for Bioware is hilarious. Bioware has included LGBT characters since at least Knights of the Old Republic, or did you forget that Juhani is bisexual?

"My ilk?" 

And do you have a citation for your claim of "proof?"  Because the front page Steam reviews complain about very serious technical issues:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/228280/reviews/ (https://steamcommunity.com/app/228280/reviews/)

As for why it has 2/3rds positive reviews on Steam?  Well, maybe it has something to do with this:

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/50341/negative-reviews-on-gog-and-steam (https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/50341/negative-reviews-on-gog-and-steam)

Quote
Hi everyone. I usually spend most of my time lurking here, but I'd like to ask a favour. It appears that having a transgendered cleric and a joke line by Minsc has greatly offended the sensibilities of some people. This has spurred these people into action, causing them to decide this is the worst game of all time and give it a zero review score on Steam, GoG and meta critic. Now, I'd like to ask for that favour. If you are playing the game and having a good time, please consider posting a positive review to balance out the loud minority which is currently painting a dark picture for new players.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 06, 2016, 09:32:10 am
The 2/3 was referring to Dragon Age: Inquisition, not Dragonspear (which you'd know if you had reading comprehension skills), and the dev comment's point is: "If you are playing the game and having a good time, please consider posting a positive review", which is radically different from "give us positive comments".
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 06, 2016, 09:38:14 am
The 2/3 was referring to Dragon Age: Inquisition, not Dragonspear (which you'd know if you had reading comprehension skills), and the dev comment's point is: "If you are playing the game and having a good time, please consider posting a positive review", which is radically different from "give us positive comments".

How do you figure?

Quote
Yes, the response was mostly positive, as is the response to this expansion (about 2/3rd positive reviews on Steam, despite your ilk's best efforts),

Seems pretty clear to me.

And my point is that Beamdog is literally begging for positive reviews.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: mellenORL on April 06, 2016, 09:45:22 am
Beamdog is asking for people who own the game and already have a positive opinion of it to please post a review. Because most people don't bother beyond a thumbs up click. And it would be nice for the other side to be heard. Also, a buggy release is common probs, not something to flip out over. There is however flipping out over the trans NPC, as evidenced in a large number of reviews.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 06, 2016, 09:45:56 am
Beamdog is asking for people who own the game and already have a positive opinion of it to please post a review. Because most people don't bother beyond a thumbs up click. And it would be nice for the other side to be heard. Also, a buggy release is common probs, not something to flip out over. There is however flipping out over the trans NPC, as evidenced in a large number of reviews.

Care to check out my link to the Steam reviews page?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 06, 2016, 09:48:52 am
Huh, I misread.

You're still a fuckend, though.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: mellenORL on April 06, 2016, 09:52:24 am
UP, I checked out the Steam reviews page for it yesterday, then I went to the Forum thread about it. I have a Steam account and buy games there frequently. My point stands.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Svata on April 06, 2016, 10:11:06 am
Are you talking about Krem?  Because his reception was mostly positive according to BioWare.

Which only tells me that your ilk is only a vocal minority. A rather relieving fact, actually.

No, I'm referring to your ilk's response to it. They freaked the fuck out, your favorite "ethical journalist" wrote a "review" that I've pointed out to you at least twice and your ilk thought that "review" was absolutely hilarious. Yes, the response was mostly positive, as is the response to this expansion (about 2/3rd positive reviews on Steam, despite your ilk's best efforts), but there was still a vocal minority, and you know exactly who it was, that said exactly the same shit about Dragon Age: Inquisition that they're saying about Dragonspear.

It has been proven that the most vocal dissent towards Dragonspear is in response to the trans character. Are there plenty of people unhappy with it for other reasons? Sure, but they aren't the problem or the subject of discussion. The problem is that transphobic assholes are bitching and moaning about it, regardless of whether or not they actually play the game, and they are the loudest group responding to the expansion.

I pointed out Dragon Age: Inquisition so you would hopefully realize that this idiotic and hateful outrage is nothing out of the ordinary for your ilk. Now, in fairness, the backlash was more due to how the game's press was praising it for its progressive portrayal of LGBT folks, but the point stands.

And to act like a trans character is out of character for Bioware is hilarious. Bioware has included LGBT characters since at least Knights of the Old Republic, or did you forget that Juhani is bisexual?

"My ilk?" 

And do you have a citation for your claim of "proof?"  Because the front page Steam reviews complain about very serious technical issues:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/228280/reviews/ (https://steamcommunity.com/app/228280/reviews/)

As for why it has 2/3rds positive reviews on Steam?  Well, maybe it has something to do with this:

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/50341/negative-reviews-on-gog-and-steam (https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/50341/negative-reviews-on-gog-and-steam)

Quote
Hi everyone. I usually spend most of my time lurking here, but I'd like to ask a favour. It appears that having a transgendered cleric and a joke line by Minsc has greatly offended the sensibilities of some people. This has spurred these people into action, causing them to decide this is the worst game of all time and give it a zero review score on Steam, GoG and meta critic. Now, I'd like to ask for that favour. If you are playing the game and having a good time, please consider posting a positive review to balance out the loud minority which is currently painting a dark picture for new players.

Read the bolded bit again, UP.

Oh. How awful. Do you even read what you post?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 06, 2016, 10:13:27 am
UP, I checked out the Steam reviews page for it yesterday, then I went to the Forum thread about it. I have a Steam account and buy games there frequently. My point stands.

Oh really?

(click to show/hide)

Seems to me like people are far more upset about the game being a broken, unplayable mess.

Are you talking about Krem?  Because his reception was mostly positive according to BioWare.

Which only tells me that your ilk is only a vocal minority. A rather relieving fact, actually.

No, I'm referring to your ilk's response to it. They freaked the fuck out, your favorite "ethical journalist" wrote a "review" that I've pointed out to you at least twice and your ilk thought that "review" was absolutely hilarious. Yes, the response was mostly positive, as is the response to this expansion (about 2/3rd positive reviews on Steam, despite your ilk's best efforts), but there was still a vocal minority, and you know exactly who it was, that said exactly the same shit about Dragon Age: Inquisition that they're saying about Dragonspear.

It has been proven that the most vocal dissent towards Dragonspear is in response to the trans character. Are there plenty of people unhappy with it for other reasons? Sure, but they aren't the problem or the subject of discussion. The problem is that transphobic assholes are bitching and moaning about it, regardless of whether or not they actually play the game, and they are the loudest group responding to the expansion.

I pointed out Dragon Age: Inquisition so you would hopefully realize that this idiotic and hateful outrage is nothing out of the ordinary for your ilk. Now, in fairness, the backlash was more due to how the game's press was praising it for its progressive portrayal of LGBT folks, but the point stands.

And to act like a trans character is out of character for Bioware is hilarious. Bioware has included LGBT characters since at least Knights of the Old Republic, or did you forget that Juhani is bisexual?

"My ilk?" 

And do you have a citation for your claim of "proof?"  Because the front page Steam reviews complain about very serious technical issues:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/228280/reviews/ (https://steamcommunity.com/app/228280/reviews/)

As for why it has 2/3rds positive reviews on Steam?  Well, maybe it has something to do with this:

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/50341/negative-reviews-on-gog-and-steam (https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/50341/negative-reviews-on-gog-and-steam)

Quote
Hi everyone. I usually spend most of my time lurking here, but I'd like to ask a favour. It appears that having a transgendered cleric and a joke line by Minsc has greatly offended the sensibilities of some people. This has spurred these people into action, causing them to decide this is the worst game of all time and give it a zero review score on Steam, GoG and meta critic. Now, I'd like to ask for that favour. If you are playing the game and having a good time, please consider posting a positive review to balance out the loud minority which is currently painting a dark picture for new players.

Read the bolded bit again, UP.

Oh. How awful. Do you even read what you post?

Take a look at the Steam reviews to see why this is so disingenuous.  I've quoted some from the front page.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Canadian Mojo on April 06, 2016, 10:21:12 am
So riddle me this:

if the issue is a glitchy, unplayable game with a whole host of issues to be legitimately upset about, why even mention the presence of this character (let alone make it the centerpiece of a bitchfest)? It's like complaining about a hangnail while you're on fire.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 06, 2016, 10:25:51 am
So riddle me this:

if the issue is a glitchy, unplayable game with a whole host of issues to be legitimately upset about, why even mention the presence of this character (let alone make it the centerpiece of a bitchfest)? It's like complaining about a hangnail while you're on fire.

It's not "the centerpiece of a bitchfest."  That's just the factor Beamdog and their ilk are zeroing in on.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Askold on April 06, 2016, 10:28:23 am
UP, at first you claimed that there was no trans phobia in the reviews. Then you made up a number of minimum trans phobic comments that you would require to believe that trans phobia and general opposition to LGBT issues are the main reason against the protest. When examples were provided you claimed the reviews were cherry picked and went on to cherry pick your own reviews. From the start it has been said that Steam, being the only site where only game owners can review, has the least anti-LGBT reviews by virtue of the fact that most of the complainers are not owners and merely wish to wage their war on SJWs or spew their hatred against a fictional trans person by complaining about the game. NOW that you can no longer claim that:

-The game isn't mainly getting negative reviews due to the transperson NPC
-That the aforementioned reviews aren't coming from people who don't even own the game
-That the character isn't just a "tool of a political agenda"

You have been reduced to picking the one site with the fewest protestors and cherry picking people who complain about legitimate issues BUT THIS DOES NOT MAKE THE PROTESTORS DISAPPEAR! No one has claimed that ALL the negative reviews are written by anti-SJW-crusaders or whatever trolls live in the deepest darkest places of the web, just that many of the people who complain about the addon mainly seem to hate the existence of a fictional transperson in the game.

No one has to prove that every player likes the game or that all the complainers simply hate whatshername.

Stop for a moment and read your own posts. Can't you see how dishonest you have been during this debate?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: The_Queen on April 06, 2016, 10:38:44 am
Wow, I just read a comment by paragon, and I think my IQ dropped. He really is silly
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Vinroke on April 06, 2016, 11:16:19 am
I refuse to believe anyone capable of coherent communication is this stupid
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: The_Queen on April 06, 2016, 11:36:31 am
I refuse to believe anyone capable of coherent communication is this stupid

I once dared to believe in the Ultimate Paragon: he never came through with that report on Canadian judicial corruption. The moral of the story is, if you're ever tempted to believe in Paragon's intelligence and competence, don't. Just don't. Fuck Nike and "just do it." Don't do it. Just don't.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: ironbite on April 06, 2016, 12:37:00 pm
Remember when he accused me of being intellectually dishonest and couldn't find a single post of me actually doing that?

Ironbite-good times.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Dakota Bob on April 06, 2016, 02:04:38 pm
So....are the Balders Gate remakes worth buying or not, I don't really wanna read through 8 pages of this shit to see if anybody answered me lol
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: TheContrarian on April 06, 2016, 02:12:07 pm
I have to say I love this as a marketing strategy.

Make a game that's a broken buggy mess, but remember to include a character with a high diversity score.  That way when people turn up with negative reviews of your piece of shit product and you start censoring them you can just call them all bigots and go crying to the media about harassment.

I fucking love how steam enables this shit.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Askold on April 06, 2016, 02:29:59 pm
There are complaints about the upgraded graphics and UI but since the majority of reviews by players are positive there probably are no massive problems in it. More voice for the cast with the speeches now being voiced more than originally (personally I prefer just text mainly. Give a voice to the most important few characters but I can just read text for the random chats. But that's a personal preference since it usually means that there is a lot more chat and chat options in the game when there is no need to voice everything.)

Although there is apparently a bug that automatically changes the difficulty to the easiest one, but I'm not sure if that has been fixed.

Problem is that finding stuff about the game is now hard since all the stories seem to be about this "scandal" rather than proper reviews of the game.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 06, 2016, 02:47:24 pm
UP, at first you claimed that there was no trans phobia in the reviews. Then you made up a number of minimum trans phobic comments that you would require to believe that trans phobia and general opposition to LGBT issues are the main reason against the protest. When examples were provided you claimed the reviews were cherry picked and went on to cherry pick your own reviews. From the start it has been said that Steam, being the only site where only game owners can review, has the least anti-LGBT reviews by virtue of the fact that most of the complainers are not owners and merely wish to wage their war on SJWs or spew their hatred against a fictional trans person by complaining about the game. NOW that you can no longer claim that:

-The game isn't mainly getting negative reviews due to the transperson NPC
-That the aforementioned reviews aren't coming from people who don't even own the game
-That the character isn't just a "tool of a political agenda"

You have been reduced to picking the one site with the fewest protestors and cherry picking people who complain about legitimate issues BUT THIS DOES NOT MAKE THE PROTESTORS DISAPPEAR! No one has claimed that ALL the negative reviews are written by anti-SJW-crusaders or whatever trolls live in the deepest darkest places of the web, just that many of the people who complain about the addon mainly seem to hate the existence of a fictional transperson in the game.

No one has to prove that every player likes the game or that all the complainers simply hate whatshername.

Stop for a moment and read your own posts. Can't you see how dishonest you have been during this debate?

I never claimed that there was no transphobia, just that it was overblown.  The reason I asked for evidence was an attempt at the Socratic method.

And my reviews weren't "cherry-picked," they were on the very first page of the Steam reviews.  That is to say, they were the reviews people found the most helpful.  Check my link (https://steamcommunity.com/app/228280/reviews/) if you don't believe me.  Most of the highly-rated negative reviews on Steam that I've read mentioned Mizhena only in passing, if at all.

As for why the response on Steam is different?  Well, you're probably right about it being because you have to own a game to review it, but not for the reasons you think.  Many of the first page reviews have a common theme: don't buy this game until it gets patched.  As a result, people who might otherwise be interested in the game decide to wait.  Meanwhile, people of a certain ideology are buying the expansion out of spite.  How do I know this?  Because Rami Ismail admitted it:

https://twitter.com/tha_rami/status/717459990374653957 (https://twitter.com/tha_rami/status/717459990374653957)

http://archive.is/KLOiA (http://archive.is/KLOiA)

Quote
I never played the 1st Baldur's Gate before but I heard it pissing off the right people, so I guess it's likely good, so I'm buying it.

Hope he enjoys the non-functional multiplayer.

And if they're buying it out of spite, why not go one step further and leave a positive review out of spite?  On GOG, I saw a number of obviously agenda-driven positive reviews.  Some even admit to it:

Quote
Haven't played it yet, I just bought it to support diverse stories in gaming. I wouldn't have even paid attention to it if there wasn't some hate campaign against it.

Blaming the backlash mainly on transphobia is ridiculous.  Look at the expansion's Metacritic user score compared to that of Dragon Age: Inquisition, another game with a trans character.  The latter got a 7.5.  The former?  3.8.  If it were primarily due to transphobia, you'd expect the scores to be much closer.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 06, 2016, 02:56:01 pm
Because unsourced quotes are valid evidence when you do it.

No one's been denying that people have been complaining about the mechanics being bugged, cumwad. You're telling us things we already know. What we're against is you taking the non-transphobic comments (which is cherrypicking) and using them to tell us that the transphobia's not that big of a deal.

Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 06, 2016, 02:58:33 pm
Because unsourced quotes are valid evidence when you do it.

Fine:

https://www.gog.com/game/baldurs_gate_siege_of_dragonspear (https://www.gog.com/game/baldurs_gate_siege_of_dragonspear)

It's on page 29 of the reviews.  Check it out for yourself.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 06, 2016, 03:02:37 pm
...fuck it, let's say that's an actual quote because I'll be fucked if I click that far. You're not worth that effort.

To quote myself:

"No one's been denying that people have been complaining about the mechanics being bugged, cumwad. You're telling us things we already know. What we're against is you taking the non-transphobic comments (which is cherrypicking) and using them to tell us that the transphobia and other assorted "muh status quo" are not another notable contributing factor."

I had to dig as far as page 2 on both pages to find that drivel. But please, tell me more about how it's not relevant.

Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 06, 2016, 03:03:50 pm
...fuck it, let's say that's an actual quote because I'll be fucked if I click that far. You're not worth that effort.

To quote myself:

"No one's been denying that people have been complaining about the mechanics being bugged, cumwad. You're telling us things we already know. What we're against is you taking the non-transphobic comments (which is cherrypicking) and using them to tell us that the transphobia and other assorted "muh status quo" are not another notable contributing factor."

Interesting.  How do you define "transphobic comments?"
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 06, 2016, 03:06:21 pm
...yeah, no, you're doing this on purpose so you're even less worth my time. This isn't the Socratic method, cockpeeler: this is you being given a writeup, reading it, throwing it into a trash can and then asking me for another writeup. I'm done.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 06, 2016, 03:07:21 pm
...yeah, no, you're doing this on purpose so you're even less worth my time. This isn't the Socratic method, cockpeeler: this is you being given a writeup, reading it, throwing it into a trash can and then asking me for another writeup. I'm done.

Pardon me for wanting to establish criteria.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ironchew on April 06, 2016, 03:15:27 pm
...fuck it, let's say that's an actual quote because I'll be fucked if I click that far. You're not worth that effort.

To quote myself:

"No one's been denying that people have been complaining about the mechanics being bugged, cumwad. You're telling us things we already know. What we're against is you taking the non-transphobic comments (which is cherrypicking) and using them to tell us that the transphobia and other assorted "muh status quo" are not another notable contributing factor."

Interesting.  How do you define "transphobic comments?"

...yeah, no, you're doing this on purpose so you're even less worth my time. This isn't the Socratic method, cockpeeler: this is you being given a writeup, reading it, throwing it into a trash can and then asking me for another writeup. I'm done.

Pardon me for wanting to establish criteria.

This has gone way beyond dishonest debate, UP. Anyone who pursues this line of reasoning only does so because they're a massive dick and they hold the entire forum in contempt.

I've been banned for shit less infuriating than this.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Askold on April 06, 2016, 03:17:53 pm
...yeah, no, you're doing this on purpose so you're even less worth my time. This isn't the Socratic method, cockpeeler: this is you being given a writeup, reading it, throwing it into a trash can and then asking me for another writeup. I'm done.

Pardon me for wanting to establish criteria.

Oh no you don't. You are pretending to be ignorant and ignoring arguments on the basis that we haven't explained what every single word of them means BUT you yourself are exempt from the same rules and you throw in random links and quotes without examining them in the same inane detail.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Vinroke on April 06, 2016, 03:29:01 pm
Quote

    Removes the two most idiotic things I've ever seen in a cRPG.

    Requires Siege of Dragonspear Expansion So, the Siege of Dragonspear expansion came out a few days ago. It's pretty "meh" since its a Beamdog original, but once again SJW writers just had to include their propaganda to virtue signal about how tolerant and inclusive they are. And I'm not the only one who's sick of this. Now...

    What the mod actually does For lack of a better-working solution (and because I'm a n00b at modding), commenting on how strange Mizhena's name is simply ends dialogue. No special snowflake life story for you, hooray!

    One of Minsc's rare "task given" lines has been changed to something else. The devs thought it would be hilarious if they got a jab at GamerGate in the game and have Minsc say it, of all people. Totally not an invitation to respond in some way, and its just sad to defile Minsc to use as their political mouthpiece to express a "take that" to their #1 boogeyman.

    No string references are added or replaced for maximum compatibility and simplicity.

    Installation Extract the override folder and place the two files in your own override folder of your Siege of Dragonspear installation. The location should look something like this for those who bought it from Beamdog:

    Baldur's Gate Siege of Dragonspear\Data\00806\override

    What about Beamdog's artistic vision, you hypocritical GooberGrappler!?! LOL OWNED, MISOGYNIST!

    Guess every mod that adds more story or quests violates their artistic vision, then. They can do whatever they like, they don't have to change anything for anyone. But I can, and that's the difference.


Soo... the problem isn't the inclusion of a Trans character with an optional line of dialogue, it's about bad writing. The bad writing this mod removes that was said line of dialogue. But the problem isn't with the Trans character. Which the mod removes..

does KiddiesInAction have any semblance of self-awareness?

Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: The_Queen on April 06, 2016, 03:32:00 pm
...fuck it, let's say that's an actual quote because I'll be fucked if I click that far. You're not worth that effort.

To quote myself:

"No one's been denying that people have been complaining about the mechanics being bugged, cumwad. You're telling us things we already know. What we're against is you taking the non-transphobic comments (which is cherrypicking) and using them to tell us that the transphobia and other assorted "muh status quo" are not another notable contributing factor."

Interesting.  How do you define "transphobic comments?"

It really is an "I'll know it when I see it" test to certain -isms. Largely, because know-nothings like yourself continue to play dense to avoid being called on your shit. Nevertheless, if you would agree, I would serve as an independent judge of whether the comments are transphobic. Everyone knows I think very little of you, but I can put aside my personal disdain for you long enough to at least evaluate a statement. If this is not conducive, we can get two other gender-variant individuals on the board (say Random and Zygarde if they approve joining) to act as a three person panel to judge whether the comment is transphobic.

You game?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 06, 2016, 03:35:49 pm
...yeah, no, you're doing this on purpose so you're even less worth my time. This isn't the Socratic method, cockpeeler: this is you being given a writeup, reading it, throwing it into a trash can and then asking me for another writeup. I'm done.

Pardon me for wanting to establish criteria.

Oh no you don't. You are pretending to be ignorant and ignoring arguments on the basis that we haven't explained what every single word of them means BUT you yourself are exempt from the same rules and you throw in random links and quotes without examining them in the same inane detail.

I was only too happy to establish criteria when Even asked.

Quote

    Removes the two most idiotic things I've ever seen in a cRPG.

    Requires Siege of Dragonspear Expansion So, the Siege of Dragonspear expansion came out a few days ago. It's pretty "meh" since its a Beamdog original, but once again SJW writers just had to include their propaganda to virtue signal about how tolerant and inclusive they are. And I'm not the only one who's sick of this. Now...

    What the mod actually does For lack of a better-working solution (and because I'm a n00b at modding), commenting on how strange Mizhena's name is simply ends dialogue. No special snowflake life story for you, hooray!

    One of Minsc's rare "task given" lines has been changed to something else. The devs thought it would be hilarious if they got a jab at GamerGate in the game and have Minsc say it, of all people. Totally not an invitation to respond in some way, and its just sad to defile Minsc to use as their political mouthpiece to express a "take that" to their #1 boogeyman.

    No string references are added or replaced for maximum compatibility and simplicity.

    Installation Extract the override folder and place the two files in your own override folder of your Siege of Dragonspear installation. The location should look something like this for those who bought it from Beamdog:

    Baldur's Gate Siege of Dragonspear\Data\00806\override

    What about Beamdog's artistic vision, you hypocritical GooberGrappler!?! LOL OWNED, MISOGYNIST!

    Guess every mod that adds more story or quests violates their artistic vision, then. They can do whatever they like, they don't have to change anything for anyone. But I can, and that's the difference.


Soo... the problem isn't the inclusion of a Trans character with an optional line of dialogue, it's about bad writing. The bad writing this mod removes that was said line of dialogue. But the problem isn't with the Trans character. Which the mod removes..

does KiddiesInAction have any semblance of self-awareness?

The person's an admitted noob, so maybe that was the best they could do.

...fuck it, let's say that's an actual quote because I'll be fucked if I click that far. You're not worth that effort.

To quote myself:

"No one's been denying that people have been complaining about the mechanics being bugged, cumwad. You're telling us things we already know. What we're against is you taking the non-transphobic comments (which is cherrypicking) and using them to tell us that the transphobia and other assorted "muh status quo" are not another notable contributing factor."

Interesting.  How do you define "transphobic comments?"

It really is an "I'll know it when I see it" test to certain -isms. Largely, because know-nothings like yourself continue to play dense to avoid being called on your shit. Nevertheless, if you would agree, I would serve as an independent judge of whether the comments are transphobic. Everyone knows I think very little of you, but I can put aside my personal disdain for you long enough to at least evaluate a statement. If this is not conducive, we can get two other gender-variant individuals on the board (say Random and Zygarde if they approve joining) to act as a three person panel to judge whether the comment is transphobic.

You game?

Let me think about it.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 06, 2016, 03:36:37 pm
Don't forget the innocuous twist on the catchphrase of a movement! A joke that doesn't even deride said catchphrase! See, there's another complaint as well, that means the transphobia isn't a motivating factor for this mod, if you beat someone's ass for being gay and steal their wallet to buy a soda that means it's not a hate crime amirite
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: The_Queen on April 06, 2016, 03:39:31 pm
...fuck it, let's say that's an actual quote because I'll be fucked if I click that far. You're not worth that effort.

To quote myself:

"No one's been denying that people have been complaining about the mechanics being bugged, cumwad. You're telling us things we already know. What we're against is you taking the non-transphobic comments (which is cherrypicking) and using them to tell us that the transphobia and other assorted "muh status quo" are not another notable contributing factor."

Interesting.  How do you define "transphobic comments?"

It really is an "I'll know it when I see it" test to certain -isms. Largely, because know-nothings like yourself continue to play dense to avoid being called on your shit. Nevertheless, if you would agree, I would serve as an independent judge of whether the comments are transphobic. Everyone knows I think very little of you, but I can put aside my personal disdain for you long enough to at least evaluate a statement. If this is not conducive, we can get two other gender-variant individuals on the board (say Random and Zygarde if they approve joining) to act as a three person panel to judge whether the comment is transphobic.

You game?

Let me think about it.

There really isn't that much to think about, it's just letting a group of individuals more knowledge of trans issues than most evaluate a statement for transphobia (or just myself acting impartially). As such, think you can get me an answer by 11:59 PM, EST, April 6, 2016?

I hate that I have to be so specific with you.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 06, 2016, 03:40:44 pm
Don't forget the innocuous twist on the catchphrase of a movement! A joke that doesn't even deride said catchphrase! See, there's another complaint as well, that means the transphobia isn't a motivating factor for this mod, if you beat someone's ass for being gay and steal their wallet to buy a soda that means it's not a hate crime amirite

Let me get this straight: do you think simply mentioning Mizhena in a review is transphobic?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Vinroke on April 06, 2016, 03:42:30 pm
There is no way in hell you are this stupid
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 06, 2016, 03:45:14 pm
Quote from: me
for this mod

Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 06, 2016, 03:48:04 pm
Quote from: me
for this mod

Missed that part.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: The_Queen on April 06, 2016, 03:58:44 pm
There is no way in hell you are this stupid

Kid, I like your style. You need to post more often.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Svata on April 06, 2016, 03:58:51 pm
Quote from: me
for this mod

Missed that part.

Of course you did.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 06, 2016, 04:24:07 pm
...fuck it, let's say that's an actual quote because I'll be fucked if I click that far. You're not worth that effort.

To quote myself:

"No one's been denying that people have been complaining about the mechanics being bugged, cumwad. You're telling us things we already know. What we're against is you taking the non-transphobic comments (which is cherrypicking) and using them to tell us that the transphobia and other assorted "muh status quo" are not another notable contributing factor."

Interesting.  How do you define "transphobic comments?"

It really is an "I'll know it when I see it" test to certain -isms. Largely, because know-nothings like yourself continue to play dense to avoid being called on your shit. Nevertheless, if you would agree, I would serve as an independent judge of whether the comments are transphobic. Everyone knows I think very little of you, but I can put aside my personal disdain for you long enough to at least evaluate a statement. If this is not conducive, we can get two other gender-variant individuals on the board (say Random and Zygarde if they approve joining) to act as a three person panel to judge whether the comment is transphobic.

You game?

Let me think about it.

There really isn't that much to think about, it's just letting a group of individuals more knowledge of trans issues than most evaluate a statement for transphobia (or just myself acting impartially). As such, think you can get me an answer by 11:59 PM, EST, April 6, 2016?

I hate that I have to be so specific with you.

Alright, let's go with the consensus.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: The_Queen on April 06, 2016, 06:06:55 pm
Sweet. I'll need to get their approval to joining such a panel, or others. If I can't find anyone else, well, looks like I'm you judge, jury, and executioner, buddy!
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Vinroke on April 06, 2016, 06:29:25 pm
First you'll need to define "Judge", "Jury" and "Executioner" which will then be arbitrarily re-interpreted to the point that you'll need to define "Judge", "Jury" and executioner which will then...

fuck it that would take too long, the KiddieInAction well simply ignore any panel and deflect with enough force to melt Europa
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Eiki-mun on April 06, 2016, 06:47:57 pm
Ultie, where and how cheaply did you purchase a backhoe? I figure you must have one, to be digging yourself a hole so quickly and efficiently.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 06, 2016, 06:50:28 pm
Ultie, where and how cheaply did you purchase a backhoe? I figure you must have one, to be digging yourself a hole so quickly and efficiently.

Don't blame me, blame the ideological circlejerk that refuses to accept dissenting viewpoints.  Fact is, I have strong evidence suggesting that the transphobes are a vocal minority among the expansion's critics.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Vinroke on April 06, 2016, 06:52:46 pm
Evidence so strong you've yet to present it
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 06, 2016, 06:53:41 pm
Evidence so strong you've yet to present it

Did you even read my link to the Steam reviews?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: niam2023 on April 06, 2016, 06:54:15 pm
He'll be a few weeks and then he'll post a chatlog or a 4/8chan thread.

That's just the kind of stupid he is.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on April 06, 2016, 06:55:14 pm
I never claimed that there was no transphobia, just that it was overblown[/b]. 

Thereby throwing in a subjective measure allowing Ultie to sprint with the goalposts to the thousand yard line regardless of how much transphobia appears on Steam's review page.

Ultie, where and how cheaply did you purchase a backhoe? I figure you must have one, to be digging yourself a hole so quickly and efficiently.

Wouldn't be the first time would it?  ::)
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Eiki-mun on April 06, 2016, 06:55:52 pm
Ultie, where and how cheaply did you purchase a backhoe? I figure you must have one, to be digging yourself a hole so quickly and efficiently.

Don't blame me, blame the ideological circlejerk that refuses to accept dissenting viewpoints.  Fact is, I have strong evidence suggesting that the transphobes are a vocal minority among the expansion's critics.

Even assuming that's true, a vocal minority still has a significant presence and influences perceptions on the wider community, which I believe is a point you yourself have attempted to make on issues like feminism. Should we not call out this 'vocal minority', again assuming that's true, rather than just dismiss them as harmless?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: niam2023 on April 06, 2016, 06:56:52 pm
He's obligated to involve himself in these kinds of things.

His friends supply his posts - otherwise he has no ideas of his own.

I believe these words best describe him "a great and incoherent mass of worship, vain and aggrandizing, but ultimately meaningless."
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: davedan on April 06, 2016, 06:58:20 pm
Ultie, where and how cheaply did you purchase a backhoe? I figure you must have one, to be digging yourself a hole so quickly and efficiently.

Don't blame me, blame the ideological circlejerk that refuses to accept dissenting viewpoints.  Fact is, I have strong evidence suggesting that the transphobes are a vocal minority among the expansion's critics.

Look before we continue this discussion I think it is important that we define the following terms so that we are all on the same page (after all this is apparently part of the Socratic method):

'blame', 'ideological', 'circlejerk', 'refuses', 'accept', 'dissenting', 'viewpoints', 'evidence', 'suggesting', 'minority' and 'critics'.

Then again UP hasn't actually played the game so I'm not sure why anyone is bothering.

So UP: What games do you actually own/play?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Vinroke on April 06, 2016, 07:01:22 pm
(click to show/hide)


(click to show/hide)

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Quote
I can't believe I am giving a Baldur's Gate game a bad review. I f*cking love this game series. This expansion is decent and it's more BG which is good. This is a matter of principle. I want the new writer to repeat after me: "I will not abuse a classic and beloved game franchise as a soapbox to further my own ideological agendas" X10

The thing about public reviews are that they are just that - public. The KiddiesInAction brigading going on is -very- visible
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 06, 2016, 07:10:44 pm
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(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

Quote
I can't believe I am giving a Baldur's Gate game a bad review. I f*cking love this game series. This expansion is decent and it's more BG which is good. This is a matter of principle. I want the new writer to repeat after me: "I will not abuse a classic and beloved game franchise as a soapbox to further my own ideological agendas" X10

The thing about public reviews are that they are just that - public. The KiddiesInAction brigading going on is -very- visible

1.  What's wrong with it?  No, seriously?  All it says was that Mizhena's characterization was the tip of the iceberg.

2.  That was mostly about the game being non-functional.  Try again.

3.  That has more to do with taking away the player's choice than anything.  Still, I can kind of see where you're coming from.

4.  Yeah, that's not really much of a "review."  This one I'll also give you, even if I don't think it's necessarily transphobic.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: ironbite on April 06, 2016, 07:12:23 pm
Gosh darn are you adorable!

Ironbite-and just so cute!
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 06, 2016, 07:13:52 pm
Gosh darn are you adorable!

Ironbite-and just so cute!

Your condescension is even more adorable!

Ultie, where and how cheaply did you purchase a backhoe? I figure you must have one, to be digging yourself a hole so quickly and efficiently.

Don't blame me, blame the ideological circlejerk that refuses to accept dissenting viewpoints.  Fact is, I have strong evidence suggesting that the transphobes are a vocal minority among the expansion's critics.

Even assuming that's true, a vocal minority still has a significant presence and influences perceptions on the wider community, which I believe is a point you yourself have attempted to make on issues like feminism. Should we not call out this 'vocal minority', again assuming that's true, rather than just dismiss them as harmless?

Oh, I have no problem with calling them out.  My problem is with most of the game's critics being lumped in with these people.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Vinroke on April 06, 2016, 07:26:42 pm
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

buying and then refunding simply to leave a negative review:
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Quote
No It is about the multiple Bugs and crashes and the loss of over 300 hours of game play on BG EE since the update

The expansion hasn't been out 300hrs yet so bug claims are dubious - I don't doubt there are bugs, any complex software is going to have them, however when there is an overwhelming amount of negative reviews due to "SJW writing" and metabombing being a thing I am going to be suspicious of it being KiddiesInAction activity especially when the puport to support developer freedom
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 06, 2016, 07:31:55 pm
(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

buying and then refunding simply to leave a negative review:
(click to show/hide)


Quote
No It is about the multiple Bugs and crashes and the loss of over 300 hours of game play on BG EE since the update

The expansion hasn't been out 300hrs yet so bug claims are dubious - I don't doubt there are bugs, any complex software is going to have them, however when there is an overwhelming amount of negative reviews due to "SJW writing" and metabombing being a thing I am going to be suspicious of it being KiddiesInAction activity especially when the puport to support developer freedom

How do you know it's KiA that's doing this?  And congratulations, Sherlock, you found one inconsistency!
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: davedan on April 06, 2016, 07:38:06 pm
What do you mean by 'doing'?

Oh and he explained the dubious claim in the text - that is the complaint of a loss of 300 hours of gameplay when the game had not been out 300 hours?

Direct Question Time - UP Direct Question: What games do you own/play?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Vinroke on April 06, 2016, 07:40:38 pm
Yeah, I'm done with this. Stapling my balls to a sander would be a more productive use of my time
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 06, 2016, 07:42:19 pm
Direct Question Time - UP Direct Question: What games do you own/play?

Team Fortress 2, XCOM, Mortal Kombat X, and Crusader Kings 2, just to name a few.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: davedan on April 06, 2016, 07:49:25 pm
So it doesn't seem that any of these fantasy/ D &D/ Forgotten Realms games are your bag anyway huh?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 06, 2016, 07:50:27 pm
So it doesn't seem that any of these fantasy/ D &D/ Forgotten Realms games are your bag anyway huh?

I'm not a D&D fan, no.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Art Vandelay on April 06, 2016, 08:07:30 pm
So it doesn't seem that any of these fantasy/ D &D/ Forgotten Realms games are your bag anyway huh?

I'm not a D&D fan, no.

So not only have you not played this particular expansion, and not only have you not played Baldur's Gate at all, but you're not even interested in that entire genre in the first place.

Say, do you ever wonder if there isn't a better use of your time than this?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 06, 2016, 08:10:42 pm
So it doesn't seem that any of these fantasy/ D &D/ Forgotten Realms games are your bag anyway huh?

I'm not a D&D fan, no.

So not only have you not played this particular expansion, and not only have you not played Baldur's Gate at all, but you're not even interested in that entire genre in the first place.

Say, do you ever wonder if there isn't a better use of your time than this?

I'd say combating misinformation is a good use of my time.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Cloud3514 on April 06, 2016, 08:10:52 pm
Don't blame me, blame the ideological circlejerk that refuses to accept dissenting viewpoints.  Fact is, I have strong evidence suggesting that the transphobes are a vocal minority among the expansion's critics.

"I have here in my hand a list of two hundred and five people that were known to the Secretary of State as being members of the Communist Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping the policy of the State Department."
- Joseph McCarthy
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: davedan on April 06, 2016, 08:12:47 pm
So it doesn't seem that any of these fantasy/ D &D/ Forgotten Realms games are your bag anyway huh?

I'm not a D&D fan, no.

So not only have you not played this particular expansion, and not only have you not played Baldur's Gate at all, but you're not even interested in that entire genre in the first place.

Say, do you ever wonder if there isn't a better use of your time than this?

I'd say combat masturbation is a good use of my time.

Do you wear cammo for that?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Askold on April 07, 2016, 12:47:17 am
UP, you demanded proof that a certain percentage of the reviews are bad because the players (formerly reviewers, but replaced by players when it turned out that by focusing on all reviewers you would have been proven wrong) don't like the trans character. Out of the reviews linked here the vast majority are complaining about the trans character. Unless you are willing to provide proof that you originally demanded that a greater percentage of the reviews are not about Mizhena you should really admit that she's the reason most people complain.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 07, 2016, 12:55:00 am
UP, you demanded proof that a certain percentage of the reviews are bad because the players (formerly reviewers, but replaced by players when it turned out that by focusing on all reviewers you would have been proven wrong) don't like the trans character. Out of the reviews linked here the vast majority are complaining about the trans character. Unless you are willing to provide proof that you originally demanded that a greater percentage of the reviews are not about Mizhena you should really admit that she's the reason most people complain.

Does simply mentioning Mizhena mean a reviewer is mostly angry about her?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Askold on April 07, 2016, 01:16:13 am
...

...


...If you had actually read the reviews that were posted here you would see that most of the complainers complain about her existence. They don't go "Oh and there's also Mizhena ...But what I really hate are the bugs." The complainers go on about how they specifically give the game a bad review BECAUSE of her or the "SJW agenda."
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 07, 2016, 01:20:30 am
Also, the mention of "gender politics" (which is mostly shorthand for transgender characters existing) in the comment as a pejorative makes it a transphobic comment because the transgender character existing is considered a problem, asscheese.

Does simply mentioning bugs in the comment mean a reviewer is mostly angry about them?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 07, 2016, 01:29:27 am
...

...


...If you had actually read the reviews that were posted here you would see that most of the complainers complain about her existence. They don't go "Oh and there's also Mizhena ...But what I really hate are the bugs." The complainers go on about how they specifically give the game a bad review BECAUSE of her or the "SJW agenda."

Except you've been citing reviews like this:

Quote
(click to show/hide)

Also, the mention of "gender politics" (which is mostly shorthand for transgender characters existing) in the comment as a pejorative makes it a transphobic comment because the transgender character existing is considered a problem, asscheese.

Does simply mentioning bugs in the comment mean a reviewer is mostly angry about them?

You're extrapolating a lot from two words.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: davedan on April 07, 2016, 01:34:28 am
What do you think they mean by gender politics?

Can you extrapolate something from 'fucking crackers'?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Askold on April 07, 2016, 02:15:05 am
UP, honest question: Do you know what the word "most" means?

And can someone (like UP) bother to go back and find out what the minimum "angry about sjws and trans" percentage he gave was? Because questioning one review ain't gonna make the others go away.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 07, 2016, 02:18:38 am
It was 35%. I might just go through the GOG comments and calculate the actual percentage, if I end up hating life enough today.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: davedan on April 07, 2016, 02:19:59 am
It was 35%. I might just go through the GOG comments and calculate the actual percentage, if I end up hating life enough today.

I have a cheese grater if you feel like masturbating with it. It would be more fun than that.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 07, 2016, 03:07:55 am
I was bored, so I went back to the GOG reviews and tallied up every comment that had the transphobic elements that I've already explained, along with that whole "rargh a transgender character existing or social íssues being referenced means it's hamfisted SJW propaganda, muh escapism, muh status quo, minority characters aren't allowed to be fortright etc." tone. You know the tone.

In the interests of full disclosure: I got 37 out of 155, which rounds out to 24%. Below UP's arbitrary percentage, sure, but still a fourth of the comments. As for the Steam part, IIRC that uses infinite scroll and my religion forbids that annoying shit.

Oh, and:

Quote from: UP
3.  That has more to do with taking away the player's choice than anything.  Still, I can kind of see where you're coming from.

You can still kill Mizhena. This comment is whining that you're not allowed to do it at a sufficient hate crime level.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Askold on April 07, 2016, 03:14:48 am
24% of all comments or just the negative ones?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 07, 2016, 03:29:10 am
All of them, because I'm a dumbass. Oh well, I'm not going back for a redo.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: davedan on April 07, 2016, 03:35:37 am
All of them, because I'm a dumbass. Oh well, I'm not going back for a redo.

Wow you must be filled with self loathing right now. If you were black you'd be vulnerable to interracial relationships.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 07, 2016, 04:10:35 am
Well, I'm white, so apparently I'm vulnerable to having my nonexistent boyfriend be fucked by a black person.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Canadian Mojo on April 07, 2016, 08:23:00 am
24% of all comments or just the negative ones?

It doesn't really matter because we all know that if UP ever found himself on the wrong side of that 24% he would have a howling bitchfit of absolutely legendary proportions over the injustice of it all. I think the whole 'die cis scum' affair is more than adequate proof of that, but there are numerous other incidences we can all cite without even needing to mention the proverbial elephant in the room.

Other than to draw the rat out of his hole I'm not sure why we would let UP dictate what percentage constitutes a legitimate problem. It literally asks the abuser how much abuse they feel they should be allowed to give. It would be akin to asking the KKK how people they can lynch and how many crosses they can burn before it becomes a problem. UP might not actually wear the robes himself but he is certainly happy to do their laundry for them.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 07, 2016, 09:01:34 am
The rat was out of its hole the moment UP posted into this thread, and I'm not letting him dictate anything. His percentage is arbitrary, his standards his own and his wilful blindness laughable.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Askold on April 07, 2016, 09:36:27 am
Is up upset about a trans character or us he saying it's okay for others to be upset about a trans character?
He is claiming that no one is upset about a trans character and that the complaints are actually about ethics in journalism bugs in computer games.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 07, 2016, 09:40:00 am
Actually, he's saying that the transphobia and general conservatism are just overblown, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan. (Despite being 1/4 of the comments at Gog.)

I'm not saying this to defend him but because if I don't, he'll just whine about being misunderstood and this thread will spin even more futilely on its ass.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: RavynousHunter on April 07, 2016, 10:19:47 am
To hell with UPs arbitrary percentage, I have an actual way to test if something is significant, something that you can't fucking argue with: actual, real MATH.  A statistical test.  More specifically, a Z test.  I'll be marking each transphobic post as a "1," and any non-transphobic post as a "0."  The list contains 155 elements, consisting of 37 1s and 118 0s.

mu: 0.37374
sigma: 0.48626
mu0: 0
Ha: mu != mu0

From this, we get:

Z = 7.64743
P(Z) = 2.0685x10-14

This means that the probability of this event happening by chance alone is infinitesimally small; we do not have enough evidence to reject the alternate hypothesis (Ha).  Statistically speaking, this must then, therefore, be due to some outside influence, the most likely culprit being targeted transphobia.  Oh, and the great thing about this?  Literally anyone can check my work.  Go ahead, if I cocked up something, let me know.

Fucking math.  It works, bitches.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: mellenORL on April 07, 2016, 10:22:14 am
24% "hurrrrr-tranny!durrrrr-SJW!" out of all the reviews, whether negative, positive, or meh? That's a massive orgy of rigid appendas agendas being thrust down dudebro throats.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: The_Queen on April 07, 2016, 10:36:02 am
To hell with UPs arbitrary percentage, I have an actual way to test if something is significant, something that you can't fucking argue with: actual, real MATH.  A statistical test.  More specifically, a Z test.  I'll be marking each transphobic post as a "1," and any non-transphobic post as a "0."  The list contains 155 elements, consisting of 37 1s and 118 0s.

mu: 0.37374
sigma: 0.48626
mu0: 0
Ha: mu != mu0

From this, we get:

Z = 7.64743
P(Z) = 2.0685x10-14

This means that the probability of this event happening by chance alone is infinitesimally small; we do not have enough evidence to reject the alternate hypothesis (Ha).  Statistically speaking, this must then, therefore, be due to some outside influence, the most likely culprit being targeted transphobia.  Oh, and the great thing about this?  Literally anyone can check my work.  Go ahead, if I cocked up something, let me know.

Fucking math.  It works, bitches.

Thank you Ravy. While I'm definitely a numbers person, certain elements of statistics escape me. You actually addressed the issue with hard numbers and facts in such a way that should put the debate to rest. Thank you for taking the time, to run the numbers, and explain a complex formula to us in a way that is easily understood.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 07, 2016, 10:36:11 am
To be fair, my calculations also included "hurrr SJW! social messages need to be nice and inoffensive and quiet, also this joke about our catchphrase is a declaration of holy war" alongside the transphobia. I'd go back and check what percentage of the comments contained transphobia and which ones are just general "anti-SJW" conservative fuckshittery (even though a notable amount of them had that transphobic tone to them), but I'm not quite that bored/depressed right now. Maybe later.

Or if someone else wants to take a crack at it, I salute your strength.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 07, 2016, 11:12:01 am
Actually, he's saying that the transphobia and general conservatism are just overblown, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan. (Despite being 1/4 of the comments at Gog.)

I'm not saying this to defend him but because if I don't, he'll just whine about being misunderstood and this thread will spin even more futilely on its ass.

Because transphobia and conservativism are inherently related.  Guess that makes TERFs conservatives.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: RavynousHunter on April 07, 2016, 11:12:59 am
To hell with UPs arbitrary percentage, I have an actual way to test if something is significant, something that you can't fucking argue with: actual, real MATH.  A statistical test.  More specifically, a Z test.  I'll be marking each transphobic post as a "1," and any non-transphobic post as a "0."  The list contains 155 elements, consisting of 37 1s and 118 0s.

mu: 0.37374
sigma: 0.48626
mu0: 0
Ha: mu != mu0

From this, we get:

Z = 7.64743
P(Z) = 2.0685x10-14

This means that the probability of this event happening by chance alone is infinitesimally small; we do not have enough evidence to reject the alternate hypothesis (Ha).  Statistically speaking, this must then, therefore, be due to some outside influence, the most likely culprit being targeted transphobia.  Oh, and the great thing about this?  Literally anyone can check my work.  Go ahead, if I cocked up something, let me know.

Fucking math.  It works, bitches.

Thank you Ravy. While I'm definitely a numbers person, certain elements of statistics escape me. You actually addressed the issue with hard numbers and facts in such a way that should put the debate to rest. Thank you for taking the time, to run the numbers, and explain a complex formula to us in a way that is easily understood.

Not a problem.  Statistics has to be my favourite field of math, though calculus is a very close second.  Its extremely useful for things like this, and having an opportunity to flex my statistical muscles felt good and I thank ET for giving me what I needed to do just that.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Belloc on April 07, 2016, 11:16:03 am
Actually, he's saying that the transphobia and general conservatism are just overblown, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan. (Despite being 1/4 of the comments at Gog.)

I'm not saying this to defend him but because if I don't, he'll just whine about being misunderstood and this thread will spin even more futilely on its ass.

Because transphobia and conservativism are inherently related.  Guess that makes TERFs conservatives.

Some probably are. What's your point?

Also, will you please respond to RavynousHunter's statistical data?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 07, 2016, 11:17:31 am
Actually, he's saying that the transphobia and general conservatism are just overblown, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan. (Despite being 1/4 of the comments at Gog.)

I'm not saying this to defend him but because if I don't, he'll just whine about being misunderstood and this thread will spin even more futilely on its ass.

Because transphobia and conservativism are inherently related.  Guess that makes TERFs conservatives.

Some probably are. What's your point?

Also, will you please respond to RavynousHunter's statistical data?

Alright.  What are his criteria for a "transphobic" post?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 07, 2016, 11:32:14 am
I picked comments that included transphobia and social conservatism, I never said they're the same thing (although they are closely related). Nice to know UP still hasn't learned how to read.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: ironbite on April 07, 2016, 11:46:31 am
You know guys I think we're missing something here.  Despite all evidence to the contrary, UP is insisting that transphobia doesn't actually exist or if it does, it's a very vocal minority.  Not elected officials passing laws that restrict where people can go to the bathroom no.  Just a vocal and loud minority that has no power or influence on anything that makes their case in comments sections all over the world.

Ironbite-or did we all miss that?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Canadian Mojo on April 07, 2016, 01:46:38 pm
You know guys I think we're missing something here.  Despite all evidence to the contrary, UP is insisting that transphobia doesn't actually exist or if it does, it's a very vocal minority.  Not elected officials passing laws that restrict where people can go to the bathroom no.  Just a vocal and loud minority that has no power or influence on anything that makes their case in comments sections all over the world.

Ironbite-or did we all miss that?
I think you're missing what is actually going on here. It wouldn't take much to get UP to admit that transphobia is a powerful and pervasive force in the world today that is undermining that is undermining people's rights with hate crimes and legislation. I'm also certain that he would agree that it is a wrong that should be righted. The thing is he doesn't really give a flying fuck about any of it.

All UP is interested in is how the world sees his particular clique and making sure its image is as favorable as possible. The problem is his clique doesn't have a very good image because, to be blunt, a significant chunk of them aren't very good people. As a result UP is forced to minimize exposure and damage caused by this undesirable element. We're seeing step one of this process right now; downplay it. The arguments are that it is only a few, it's not actually transphobia, there are legitimate gripes, it's media spin, the developer is playing the system, the usual.

The next step will be denial. It's not us, it's other people using us as a cover -- the classic no true Scotsman defense. There is a decent possibility of seeing a few token minority members and some of the 'good' things his clique has done being offered up as proof it's not them -- the classic I have black friends argument.

The third step will be to try and save face as he tucks tail and runs by offering us a draw or by throwing some new bait up somewhere else on the board for us to focus on while this thread sinks into obscurity.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 07, 2016, 02:14:12 pm
You know guys I think we're missing something here.  Despite all evidence to the contrary, UP is insisting that transphobia doesn't actually exist or if it does, it's a very vocal minority.  Not elected officials passing laws that restrict where people can go to the bathroom no.  Just a vocal and loud minority that has no power or influence on anything that makes their case in comments sections all over the world.

Ironbite-or did we all miss that?

I'm not denying the existence of transphobia, or its pervasiveness.  All I'm saying is that I disagree with the assertion that this backlash is mainly due to transphobia.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 07, 2016, 02:23:45 pm
You know what? Fine. According to my observations, it's not just transphobia that's a notable pattern in the criticisms. It's transphobia and general "anti-SJW" social conservatism. (And, in the spirit of accuracy, also the game's other qualities. But also prominently the social conservatism.)

Also, what was that about consumers being the devil for letting a game's social context influence their rating? Or does that only apply when the commenters aren't right-wing enough for you?

Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ultimate Paragon on April 07, 2016, 02:24:36 pm
You know what? Fine. According to my observations, it's not just transphobia that's a notable pattern in the criticisms. It's transphobia and general "anti-SJW" social conservatism. (And, in the spirit of accuracy, also the game's other qualities. But also prominently the social conservatism.)

Also, what was that about consumers being the devil for letting a game's social context influence their rating? Or does that only apply when the commenters aren't right-wing enough for you?

No, it only applies when the reviewers are deliberately trying to incur controversy.

And it's not necessarily social conservatives who are "anti-SJW."
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 07, 2016, 03:06:33 pm
Because any reviewer who doesn't like the tidday can't possibly just not like the tidday. No, they're just liars that serve the god of Chaos to sow discord upon the land.

Anyway, this is veering too close to discussing The Amoral Hand-Wringers Who Shall Not Be Named, so I'll just tune out of the conversation for now with this final statement:

The transphobia and social conservatism are prominent and pervasive problems in the critique. However, a lot of people seem to think that the game is, independently of this, legitimately buggy and poorly designed, so that's also a notable element of the backlash. But the transphobia and social conservatism are arguably more warranting of discourse than the bugginess, because bugs don't perpetuate belief systems that oppress, marginalize, dehumanize and kill real people in the real world.

I feel dirty for even getting close to conceding a point to UP, but I don't want my personal hatred of someone keep me from continuing to keep my mind open and ready to think about a subject more. That would make me narrow-minded as well.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Art Vandelay on April 07, 2016, 04:47:28 pm
You actually addressed the issue with hard numbers and facts in such a way that should put the debate to rest.
Hah. Good joke.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: The_Queen on April 07, 2016, 04:58:10 pm
You actually addressed the issue with hard numbers and facts in such a way that should put the debate to rest.
Hah. Good joke.

Thank Jesus-tits that somebody caught it.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Ironchew on April 07, 2016, 06:46:24 pm
All UP is interested in is how the world sees his particular clique and making sure its image is as favorable as possible. The problem is his clique doesn't have a very good image because, to be blunt, a significant chunk of them aren't very good people.

To be more blunt, hate groups attract hateful people.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on April 07, 2016, 08:41:26 pm
The transphobia and social conservatism are prominent and pervasive problems in the critique. However, a lot of people seem to think that the game is, independently of this, legitimately buggy and poorly designed, so that's also a notable element of the backlash. But the transphobia and social conservatism are arguably more warranting of discourse than the bugginess, because bugs don't perpetuate belief systems that oppress, marginalize, dehumanize and kill real people in the real world.

It's a fair point, the trick is really sorting out legitimate criticism from the chaff generated by online mobs who're just mindlessly signal-boosting.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Askold on April 08, 2016, 12:59:48 am
The official DnD FB page has this statement:
Quote
To our community,

Dungeons & Dragons stands by the stories our partners tell and we fully support the choices Beamdog has made in developing Siege of Dragonspear. Inclusivity is a core value of Wizards of the Coast and we believe that all people, regardless of ethnicity, background, gender identity or sexuality, should be free to play our games without fear of harassment or attacks. In July of 2014 we released the D&D Player’s Handbook for the fifth edition and included the following section as an example of our core values.

Sincerely,
Nathan Stewart
Director of Dungeons & Dragons

(https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-0/p200x200/12974489_10153970936806071_1735933573293940158_n.jpg?oh=970f490668bc02c3377153920ac225c8&oe=57B73DD8)

(For the record, ever since the first or second edition of DnD there has been an elven god/goddess that was either a hermaphrodite or changed gender occasionally.)

Naturally people are complaining to the owners of the DnD now.

This is the type of complaint that seems to be "fashionable" now and it's stupid.
Quote
It wasn't that they included a transgender person that has everyone so mad, it's because the transgender has no point to the story. It could be in the story or not. Just saying hey I'm transgender look at me! Yeah no thanks. That is trying to shove it down people's throats. I don't think most transgender people walk up and introduce themselves as a trans. That's stupid. I don't walk up to people as introduce myself as straight. I have my own personal views on the topic that I try not to involve in my hobby. I don't dislike anyone for the color of their skin or their sexual orientation. I let the person speak for themselves, I might not agree with their lifestyle choices but that their business, let's just play D&D and have fun!

There are different variations but the point seems to be, that nothing should exist unless it is relevant to the plot.

Minsc has Boo, but as Boo offers no relevance to the plot and isn't used in any quests, should it also have been removed? After all, all it did was add to the characterization of Minsc and help explain what kind of person he is. Kinda like how Mizhena being trans might not have a huge effect on the plot but is part of her character. Anyway, I bet these people would not have complained if an NPC had mentioned that they are married but their husband/wife is elsewhere and the subject would not have been raised again. This kind of worship of conservation of detail only ever seems to show up when the story has something people don't like.

...And the demand that trans people should stay in the closet is similarly flawed because a) it shows up AFTER the PC asks her about it b) Not everyone lives in a closet and perhaps a GODDAMN PRIESTESS OF A WAR GOD DOESN'T HAVE TO FEAR RANDOM FUCKERS GOING ON TRANSPANIC IF THEY OPEN THEIR MOUTH! OR PERHAPS THEY LIVE IN A PLACE WITH LESS TRANSPHOBIA THAN USA?!?

Finally: "I let the person speak for themselves, I might not agree with their lifestyle choices but that their business, let's just play D&D and have fun!"

Well, clearly you get enraged and complain to remove a single transperson character when one shows up so I am sceptical of your claim.

EDIT: and then I saw this...
Quote
The fact that you even had - or chose - to include something like this in your PHB proves that you're trying to force a viewpoint on a community that really doesn't need it to be addressed. I'm pretty sure nobody is preventing anybody from playing D&D however they want, so stating that D&D is inlcusive is entirely unneccessary and inapropriate. Leave real world politics and social issues out of it, and just let people play the game however they want.

...Well clearly your comment disproves the claim you are making so fuck you "Mister random person on the internet."
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 08, 2016, 03:45:22 am
So if I were sexually attracted to anything at all, this post would be it. I am now Askoldragesexual. (Seriously, I appreciate when people express emotion in their posts. It makes it seem more... real? Close? Whatever, y'all know what I mean.)

Also I love how these people think not allowing them to be bigoted in a video game is "forcing a viewpoint on them". Reflects more poorly on them than on the game.

Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Stormwarden on April 08, 2016, 04:41:03 am
Uh-huh...see, I could care less that it involves a transgender character. Anyone who's watched Ranma 1/2 or Birdy the Mighty wouldn't think much of that. It's that it was poorly done, and even then, you can work through that. Call me back if there's something relevant.

Otherwise, this is a waste of time..
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Vypernight on April 08, 2016, 05:27:42 am
I don't remember people being this hung up about Birdo.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Askold on April 08, 2016, 05:53:35 am
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--12tcx3tQ--/iuzrlnvzy1klb5ay8rwc.png)
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--gqd5SEqL--/yjlik6ewf9p4wn3lijvq.png)

...Yes, now it is all clear.

People may hate you and wish to kill you because of your sexuality, colour of skin or because you are not cis-gender. But this is merely something that you should "get over" with. Don't try to make people accept you as who you are or demand representation in media because that might make some people feeel "awkward" or "uncomfortable" and that is unacceptable while your mistreatment is merely a fact of life that must not be changed in any way.

Now I am going to go throw up.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on April 08, 2016, 07:35:25 am
Games are one type of media, there are people in history who complained about politics they didn't like existing in books they might read. Didn't lead anywhere good.
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: Even Then on April 08, 2016, 07:42:32 am
Uh-huh...see, I could care less that it involves a transgender character. Anyone who's watched Ranma 1/2 or Birdy the Mighty wouldn't think much of that. It's that it was poorly done, and even then, you can work through that. Call me back if there's something relevant.

Otherwise, this is a waste of time..

I'll bite. How was it poorly done? (Keep in mind that the "she instantly comes out to you and her character is entirely about her being trans" refrain brought out by social conservatives is, as has been demonstrated, factually incorrect.)
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: mellenORL on April 08, 2016, 12:32:13 pm
What was written:

Quote
Mizhena: I am Mizhena, faithful of Tempus. Praise be to the Lord of Battles!
Maivyn Auvrea: Mizhena? That’s an unusual name. I don’t think I’ve heard it before. 
Mizhena: I created the name myself several years ago. My birth name proved unsuitable.
Maivyn Auvrea: What was wrong with your old name?
Mizhena: When I was born, my parents thought me a boy and raised me as such. In time, we all came to understand I was truly a woman. I created my new name from syllables of different languages. All have special meaning to me; it is the truest reflection of who I am.
Maivyn Auvrea: I have to be going now.
Mizhena: Fight well, friend!



What was read:

Quote
Mizhena: I am Mizhena, faithful SJW lobbyist and sex slave of Tempus. Praise be to the Lord of LGBT Battles!
Maivyn Auvrea: Mizhena? That’s an unusual name. I don’t think I’ve heard it before. Sounds really ghey.
Mizhena: I created the name myself several years ago. Now it's my street name when I'm working this kiosk. My birth name proved unsuitable.
Maivyn Auvrea: What was wrong with your old name?
Mizhena: When I was born, my parents thought me a boy and raised me as such. In time, we all came to understand I was truly a woman. I created my new name from syllables of different languages. All have special meaning to me; it is the truest reflection of who I am. Otherwise, how could I snare you and hamfist it down your throat if I went by George?
Maivyn Auvrea: I have to be going now.
Mizhena: WAIT! I have to finish reading you the Agenda! It's in my union contract!...Oh, well. He got away....This Time (heh heh). Fight well, friend!
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: rookie on April 08, 2016, 12:36:47 pm
So I'm not a gamer. Like at all. The last video game I was into was Doom 3 from when back when computers were networked. So it's UP and his Just Us League the norm or just some small little enclave of cry babies?
Title: Re: Gamers throw shitfit re: transgender character in Baldur's Gate
Post by: mellenORL on April 08, 2016, 12:42:07 pm
Very, very loud, bearded Cry-Puppy-Monkey-Babies with flame war torches and Twitter pitchforks, and doxxing skillz, sometimes.