Obama's SOTUA

[CaseAgainstFaith]

For those of you who watched it, what did you think?  I can definitely tell he is in full on campaign mode, and singled out congress quite a few times.  I also supported most of what he wanted to do should he get a congress willing to help him.  What do you all think about kids being forced to stay in school till 18?  It doesn't seem like a bad idea.  Maybe hard to enforce though.  But over all I think if he campaigns on what he stated in his union address, that I think would certainly help his re-election chances.  Your Opinions?

[Neal_Darex]

With regards to forcing people to stay in school until 18; a monumentally piss poor idea if you ask me.  All it will do (and has done since most states compel school attendance anyway) is push a bunch of people who don't want to be there and have no interest in it into an environment where they will be a massive disturbance to all the students who DO care about their own education and knowledge.  Furthermore, the American education system is broken.  For years, its been a laughing stock of the developed world and it's left our own domestic population so undereducated that this country relies almost exclusively on foreign brain-power to drive the high-tech divisions of our economy.  This problem won't be fixed by forcing people to stay in a broken system for longer.  How we handle education needs to be completely overhauled and it needs to be treated as a privilege rather than a right or compulsory program.  Now keep in mind, I don't mean that in the sense of turning it into some kind of elitist institution.  It is my firm conviction that public education should be freely offered to anyone who wants it.  But the key word is offered.  Not forced upon.  If, at the age of 16, one decided that he/she would be happier or better off going to a trade school or something- they should be allowed to do that.  That's how many other nations in the world do it and to great effect.  Give people more options to determine the course of their developing skill-set and knowledge base.  Don't force a system down people's throats that barely leaves them any more "educated" than they were when going in to it.

[ironbite]

Anyone got a transcript?  I didn't watch but I usually read it the next day to figure out what he wants to have happen.

Ironbite-but the potshots towards Congress were funny.

[CaseAgainstFaith]

Anyone got a transcript?  I didn't watch but I usually read it the next day to figure out what he wants to have happen.

Ironbite-but the potshots towards Congress were funny.

Here you go http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/25/state-of-the-union-address-full-text  Full Transcript.

[Auri-El]

I think making kids stay in school till 18 is a good idea. Are there even trade schools and things that'll take people who haven't finished high school? Dropping out of school is 99.9% of the time a really bad idea. People with 4 years of college have trouble finding jobs nowadays; people without even a high school diploma probably are not going to get a job, anywhere.

[e13]

I think we need to push for more trade schools and the like. Plumbers, builders, electricians, mechanics... these guys will always be needed in some capacity, the jobs pay well, usually, and it's valuable service. Setting these up would probably be helpful to a lot of kids who don't see much point in English or History class,

[Cataclysm]

And for the kids that do, we should have more schools that specialize in science, arts, social studies ect.

[largeham]

Does the US have tech schools? We have quite a few here.

[erictheblue]

And for the kids that do, we should have more schools that specialize in science, arts, social studies ect.

I agree with this, though on a practical level, I am not sure how it could be done. (The cost would be high because instead of running 1 school, a district would have to run multiple ones.)

In Northern Virginia, there is a (I think) magnet school dedicated to science and technology. I first heard about it when I went to college. (My undergrad is in engineering, so I met a lot of people who went to that school.) Although I have learned since that the school is not as good as I had first believed, it still gave a great basis in science and technology, and provided a lot of opportunities for the students. I still believe that if I could go back in time, I would be willing to kill someone if it meant I could attend that school. (OK, maybe not literally kill. But I would go to great lengths.)

My fiancee is an artist. She doesn't do that as a career, but if she could afford to, she would love to make a living from her arts and crafts. She took some arts classes at a community college, but had to stop because of costs. I know she would have loved to have gone to a high school that focused on the arts.

[CaseAgainstFaith]

Does the US have tech schools? We have quite a few here.

Where I live we have a Vo-Tech that you can start attending once you reach highschool (9th grade) and attend it for all 4 years.  That's what I did for computers, the Vo-Tech got me my A+ Cert and my Net+ cert for computer networking. Sure you still have to go to school part time, I had 3 gen ed classes in the morning then went to Vo-Tech after lunch.  So since I was interested in computers this definitely put me ahead of the game come college and getting the job I have now.

[e13]

Does the US have tech schools? We have quite a few here.

Where I live we have a Vo-Tech that you can start attending once you reach highschool (9th grade) and attend it for all 4 years.  That's what I did for computers, the Vo-Tech got me my A+ Cert and my Net+ cert for computer networking. Sure you still have to go to school part time, I had 3 gen ed classes in the morning then went to Vo-Tech after lunch.  So since I was interested in computers this definitely put me ahead of the game come college and getting the job I have now.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

We have two "tech" schools in my neck of the woods, but you can't get a degree without a high school degree. Vocational work just makes more sense.

[CaseAgainstFaith]

Does the US have tech schools? We have quite a few here.

Where I live we have a Vo-Tech that you can start attending once you reach highschool (9th grade) and attend it for all 4 years.  That's what I did for computers, the Vo-Tech got me my A+ Cert and my Net+ cert for computer networking. Sure you still have to go to school part time, I had 3 gen ed classes in the morning then went to Vo-Tech after lunch.  So since I was interested in computers this definitely put me ahead of the game come college and getting the job I have now.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

We have two "tech" schools in my neck of the woods, but you can't get a degree without a high school degree. Vocational work just makes more sense.

It does make sense, however it still doesn't nullify Obama's plan to keep you in school till you are 18.  If you are pro vocational then it would be obvious to do it more like my school which you still have to be a part time Highschooler and you still get your HS Diploma and you would still be "saying in school till 18" you just would have a type of on the job training while going to highschool to the career of your interest.

[e13]

Does the US have tech schools? We have quite a few here.

Where I live we have a Vo-Tech that you can start attending once you reach highschool (9th grade) and attend it for all 4 years.  That's what I did for computers, the Vo-Tech got me my A+ Cert and my Net+ cert for computer networking. Sure you still have to go to school part time, I had 3 gen ed classes in the morning then went to Vo-Tech after lunch.  So since I was interested in computers this definitely put me ahead of the game come college and getting the job I have now.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

We have two "tech" schools in my neck of the woods, but you can't get a degree without a high school degree. Vocational work just makes more sense.

It does make sense, however it still doesn't nullify Obama's plan to keep you in school till you are 18.  If you are pro vocational then it would be obvious to do it more like my school which you still have to be a part time Highschooler and you still get your HS Diploma and you would still be "saying in school till 18" you just would have a type of on the job training while going to highschool to the career of your interest.

I wasn't giving a "solution" to Obama's plan. I was simply stating that they should stop focusing so much on the current model, wherein high school is simply a stepping stone to college where YOU MUST GO. They need to give options. If that involves someone leaving school at, say, 16, and not taking advantage of a tech option, that's then their call. I just see this focus on "college-only" as misguided.

[Vene]

With regards to forcing people to stay in school until 18; a monumentally piss poor idea if you ask me.  All it will do (and has done since most states compel school attendance anyway) is push a bunch of people who don't want to be there and have no interest in it into an environment where they will be a massive disturbance to all the students who DO care about their own education and knowledge.  Furthermore, the American education system is broken.  For years, its been a laughing stock of the developed world and it's left our own domestic population so undereducated that this country relies almost exclusively on foreign brain-power to drive the high-tech divisions of our economy.  This problem won't be fixed by forcing people to stay in a broken system for longer.  How we handle education needs to be completely overhauled and it needs to be treated as a privilege rather than a right or compulsory program.  Now keep in mind, I don't mean that in the sense of turning it into some kind of elitist institution.  It is my firm conviction that public education should be freely offered to anyone who wants it.  But the key word is offered.  Not forced upon.  If, at the age of 16, one decided that he/she would be happier or better off going to a trade school or something- they should be allowed to do that.  That's how many other nations in the world do it and to great effect.  Give people more options to determine the course of their developing skill-set and knowledge base.  Don't force a system down people's throats that barely leaves them any more "educated" than they were when going in to it.

Actually, our schools are fine, once you factor in poverty.

American students in schools with less than 10% of students on free and reduced lunch averaged 551, higher than the overall average of any OECD country. Those in schools with 10 to 25% of students qualifying for free and reduced lunch averaged 527, which was behind only Korea and Finland.

In contrast, American students in schools with 75% of more of children in poverty averaged 446, second to last among the 34 OECD countries.

http://www.schoolsmatter.info/2010/12/poverty-has-huge-impact-on-american.html

We also know there are states which do a great job with mathematics.

Looking at the fourth grade scores, MA, with an average TIMSS score of 572, is surpassed only by Hong Kong and Singapore, and is tied with Chinese Taipei and Japan. In eighth grade, MA, which still is significantly higher than other U.S. states, falls behind Hong Kong, Singapore, S. Korea, Taipei, and Japan. To put this another way, Massachusetts, along with several other U.S. states, including Minnesota, New Jersey, and New Hampshire, blows away all of Europe.

[emphasis added]
http://scienceblogs.com/mikethemadbiologist/2009/06/the_us_can_teach_kids_maths_pr.php

There's also data from Ohio showing a very strong relationship between poverty and academic performance.

http://shankerblog.org/?p=3652

The United States does not have an education problem. The United States has a poverty problem. If we want to improve our school systems we must address poverty and reinstate the social security net. If we want kids to do well in school they must be housed, they must be fed, and they must have supplies for education. A child who doesn't eat every day is not a child that will focus on learning to read.

[MaybeNever]

I am much too lazy to provide a source for this right now, but I've heard that children in schools on military bases tend to do better than virtually any other group. The reasoning is much as Vene provided: at least one parent has stable if not always lucrative work, can get medical care, and actually have housing.