Author Topic: Video Game Thread 2.0  (Read 1508229 times)

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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4440 on: May 21, 2014, 03:23:29 pm »
Even though I really hate the massive hatedom towards Other M (inasmuch as I hate hatedoms period), I will say that it would probably be better off if Samus just never spoke again, for everyone involved.

Though her characterization in Fusion was decent.

EDIT:

I read on the Star Wars wiki that while sometimes the Light Side of the Force is associated with complete control over one's emotion, sometimes it can be activated through the emotions of love, joy, happiness, and all that stuff, while the dark side is exclusively limited to "dark" emotions like passion, hatred, fury, and anger.

...And sometimes, all emotion is equated with the dark side, because the writers can't seem to keep this shit straight.

...Quick question: how the hell is passion a "dark" emotion?  Its pretty much the main driving force of everything worthwhile.

Personally, the whole "light and dark" Force things are just plain old lazy writing; it gives writers the excuse to use that most simplistic trope of black-and-white morality.  I'm sure some authors delve into the grey areas because creative freedom, its more that it rubs me the wrong way as a story telling device because it removes the intrigue that grey areas always introduce.
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Offline Sour Grapes

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4441 on: May 21, 2014, 04:36:11 pm »
I ended up getting into Star Wars The Old Republic.  It's actually pretty fun, though some of the chat restrictions are complete bullshit.

I can't even use PARTY CHAT until I'm level 10?  Really EA?  REALLY?  I can somewhat understand no whispering (though even that's draconian) but when you limit F2P players on their chatting to the point where even SUBSCRIBERS are complaining about it, you've fucked up.

Incidentally, despite playing the game for the Sith and Jedi, I'm finding the Bounty Hunter to be one of my favorite characters.  The fact that my Bounty Hunter ended up being a ridiculously hot, tall, buff guy (same race as Darth Maul) with one of the sexier voices out there is something of a contribution.  Also some of the better light side dialogue, in my opinion.  Though I'm not going PURE light side... there are some people who just deserve to die.

ToR screws over F2Pers royally.  I could tell you AAAAALLLLL about it if you like.  There are so many paywalls it's a wonder that F2Pers don't get a concussion.

Only can use one crew skill, when you need all three.  (Though if you can only have one, I would suggest slicing.  Easy monies.)

Can only buy extra inventory slots and cargo bays with Cartel Coins.

Can't trade with anybody, unless you're a subscriber.

Only get 5 medical drones, which are an instant respawn in the area you died, unless you're a subscriber.

Can't trade at the Galactic Trade Network... I could be wrong, but I don't think you can, unless you're a sub.

Mind you you can buy unlocks to make your life easier.  But they all cost Cartel Coins or millions of credits on the GTN.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 05:01:39 pm by Sour Grapes »

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4442 on: May 21, 2014, 04:56:57 pm »
Even though I really hate the massive hatedom towards Other M (inasmuch as I hate hatedoms period), I will say that it would probably be better off if Samus just never spoke again, for everyone involved.

Though her characterization in Fusion was decent.

EDIT:

I read on the Star Wars wiki that while sometimes the Light Side of the Force is associated with complete control over one's emotion, sometimes it can be activated through the emotions of love, joy, happiness, and all that stuff, while the dark side is exclusively limited to "dark" emotions like passion, hatred, fury, and anger.

...And sometimes, all emotion is equated with the dark side, because the writers can't seem to keep this shit straight.

...Quick question: how the hell is passion a "dark" emotion?  Its pretty much the main driving force of everything worthwhile.

Personally, the whole "light and dark" Force things are just plain old lazy writing; it gives writers the excuse to use that most simplistic trope of black-and-white morality.  I'm sure some authors delve into the grey areas because creative freedom, its more that it rubs me the wrong way as a story telling device because it removes the intrigue that grey areas always introduce.

In all honesty, ther's a lot of inconsistency in the EU and main canon about what the Light/Dark sides of the Force actually are.

Some authors write it that the Force encompasses both the Light and Dark sides.  Some say that even an excess of the Light Side could doom the universe.  (the recent Clone Wars series went with this line regarding the Son and Daughter, gods who became aspects of the dark and light sides of the force, with the Father, who maintains balance betwen them and can't let EITHER go free from the planet they're on)

Some authors write it that the Force IS the light side (or rather, that there isn't a light side because the Force is naturally light) and that the Dark Side is a corruption of the Force.  (This is the default assumption made in the six movies.)

Even in-universe, there's different lines of thought.  One character wrote a thesis which indicated that there were no light or dark sides to the Force, just the Force itself, and what made someone evil was their motivation for using it.  A theory that Yoda soundly rejected and even found threatening.  Unfortunately, Yoda is never allowed to be wrong when he says something.

And then there's the whole "Electric Judgment/Emerald Fire" thing, which was basically Force Lightning as used by a Jedi. Or... is it still Force Lightning?  EU can't decide which one.

Can Jedi use dark side powers without being corrupted into evil?  Not even the main movies can really decide on this, as there was a moment where Luke tapped into the Dark Side to defeat his father, then effortlessly came back before doing the Good Is Stupid thing of throwing away his lightsaber in front of Darth Sidious.  And then there was a moment where Obi Wan, fueled by feelings of revenge, cut Darth Maul in half, and this NEVER gets addressed in the main films as a bad thing.

As far as "passion being an evil trait", the Sith themselves seem to believe this.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Passion gives me strength.
Strength gives me power.
Power gives me victory.
And through victory, I shall break my chains.
The Force shall free me!"


Or something like that.

EDIT:

Now that I think about it, they could be using the old definition of "passion", which is "suffering".

@Sour Grapes

Yeah that's... pretty damn obscene.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 07:52:18 pm by Magus Silveresti »
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Offline Askold

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4443 on: May 22, 2014, 12:54:39 am »
...You know, even though the force is represented as "Good vs Evil" choice, the Sith at least are not motivated by "for the evulz." Every occasion that I remember had them either fighting for power or revenge, which as far as villain motivation goes are much better than "I am going to kick some puppies simply because I am evil."
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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4444 on: May 22, 2014, 01:06:45 am »
...You know, even though the force is represented as "Good vs Evil" choice, the Sith at least are not motivated by "for the evulz." Every occasion that I remember had them either fighting for power or revenge, which as far as villain motivation goes are much better than "I am going to kick some puppies simply because I am evil."

Depends on the writer, I think.  Wasn't there a novel where the Empire people kept greeting each other with things like "Dark Greetings" because people kept rooting for the Epire in the movies?

Though the EU does seem to agree that the Sith are pretty much amoral in the sense of "We don't believe in good OR evil, just power and those who don't have it."  Still, I guess the best way to put it is "If a Sith really wants to do it, it's probably something evil."
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Offline Askold

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4445 on: May 22, 2014, 01:17:46 am »
...You know, even though the force is represented as "Good vs Evil" choice, the Sith at least are not motivated by "for the evulz." Every occasion that I remember had them either fighting for power or revenge, which as far as villain motivation goes are much better than "I am going to kick some puppies simply because I am evil."

Depends on the writer, I think.  Wasn't there a novel where the Empire people kept greeting each other with things like "Dark Greetings" because people kept rooting for the Epire in the movies?

Though the EU does seem to agree that the Sith are pretty much amoral in the sense of "We don't believe in good OR evil, just power and those who don't have it."  Still, I guess the best way to put it is "If a Sith really wants to do it, it's probably something evil."
...Right. I forgot about those. I think they also had "evil marriage" or something, but can't seem to find a comic page about it now.

As I was saying, MOST of the time the Sith and the Empire are represented as more than just card-carrying villains who are evil for the sake of evil. Even the Imperial troops are represented as:

a) Being opressive because they are racist and believe in the "humanity fuck yeah!" ideology that Palpatine created.
b) The New order ideology of Palpatine (even if it was just an exscuse for him to rule everyone forever) had believers and they actually thought that the horrible dictatorship brougth stability to the galaxy.
c) Some were just power hungry.

But yeah, sometimes the writing was just bad.
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4446 on: May 22, 2014, 01:51:36 am »
And yet I somehow still love it.

Incidentally, while I find the Jedi fascinating sometimes (mostly when the author is going with "good feelings make good Jedi") the Sith are the stars of the EU.  Why?

They have an entire culture.  They seek out wisdom, too, they have their own sense of honor, as twisted as it is (generally speaking, Sith feel that if they fall in battle, they should die.  Exceptions exist, of course.), they aren't above working with their enemies if it suits them, etc. etc.

The fact that at one point in the now defunct part of the EU, some of the Sith actually started seeing each other as rivals rather than enemies (the difference is that rivals help each other), was kind of a neat moment when I read about it.

Also the Dark Side is responsible for some of the coolest shit out there.

The Jedi are just so vanilla.  And I like vanilla.  But there's such a thing as too much vanilla.

Incidentally, there was a group of Sith that rejected the dark side of the Force, due to the ruin it could bring upon them, and started using the Light Side instead.  They were still Sith, however, and still advocated for Sith ideals.

Of course, they ended up being destroyed (maybe) by the Sith Inquisitor.
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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4447 on: May 22, 2014, 05:23:49 am »
I like Jolee Bindo's view on the Jedi's ban on emotions:

"Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Passion can lead to rage and fear, and can be controlled... but passion is not the same thing as love. Controlling your passions while being in love... that's what they should teach you to beware. But love itself will save you... not condemn you."

I kinda get the feeling that this line was meant as a giant "fuck you" to George Lucas and the prequel trilogy's central conflict being the romance between Padme and Anakin. Of course, Jolee is pretty much proof that Grey Jedi are much more interesting than Jedi of either extreme.

EDIT: Also, how about those Revanites? I wish they had a bigger part. It could have very interesting to see some conflict between the ones that (incorrectly) believed Revan to be the ultimate Sith and the ones that (correctly) believed Revan to be the closest thing to an ultimate master of the Force and a Grey Jedi.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 05:27:22 am by Cloud3514 »
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4448 on: May 22, 2014, 07:54:21 am »
You people are making me want to get a copy of Force Unleashed.  Because Starkiller is awesome, and so was that game.
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Offline Askold

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4449 on: May 22, 2014, 11:30:31 am »
http://pixelherogames.com/xenos-announced/

...Warhammer 40k adventure game.

...And you play as an Inquisitor.

...And it is based on Dan Abnett books which are well liked.

...I FEEL THE WARP OVERTAKING ME! IT IS A GOOD PAIN.

(Seriously though, not many good adventure games have been made in the last few years. Or adventure games at all. The world is fascinating and this has potential. I just hope they don't mess it up completely.)
No matter what happens, no matter what my last words may end up being, I want everyone to claim that they were:
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."
Aww, you guys rock. :)  I feel the love... and the pitchforks and torches.  Tingly!

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4450 on: May 22, 2014, 11:57:02 am »
I like Jolee Bindo's view on the Jedi's ban on emotions:

"Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Passion can lead to rage and fear, and can be controlled... but passion is not the same thing as love. Controlling your passions while being in love... that's what they should teach you to beware. But love itself will save you... not condemn you."

I kinda get the feeling that this line was meant as a giant "fuck you" to George Lucas and the prequel trilogy's central conflict being the romance between Padme and Anakin. Of course, Jolee is pretty much proof that Grey Jedi are much more interesting than Jedi of either extreme.

EDIT: Also, how about those Revanites? I wish they had a bigger part. It could have very interesting to see some conflict between the ones that (incorrectly) believed Revan to be the ultimate Sith and the ones that (correctly) believed Revan to be the closest thing to an ultimate master of the Force and a Grey Jedi.

There was a line in... KOTOR 2, I believe, where an NPC (who apparently admits that he wasn't even supposed to be in the game - what) uses the line "Are you an angel?" then treats it like a terrible joke and hopes that some poor kid doesn't start using it.

Also, have you seen the comic where Qui Gonn Jinn (QUI GONN FUCKING JINN OF ALL JEDI) explains to a young Obi Wan why love leads to the dark side?

Basically, force sensitive twins get favored by a master who is their adoptive father.  They both fall in love with a girl.  She only falls in love with one of them.  The other tries to deceive her.  The first gets pissed when he finds out.  They fight and the resulting clash causes a force explosion that dissolves THE ENTIRE WORLD.

QUI GONN FUCKING JINN.  THE CLOSEST THING THE MOVIES HAVE TO A GREY JEDI.

UGGGGHHHHHH.
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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4451 on: May 22, 2014, 08:13:56 pm »
As I recall, in the first Knights of the Old Republic, the Sith were an actual culture with their own empire that could hold its own against the entire Republic, largely thanks to them having their own force sensitive super soldiers that are an actual match for the Jedi. Personally, I like to think that there is no light/dark force dichotomy at all. It's all simply Republic propaganda meant to demonise the only thing that's stopping them from dominating the entire galaxy. It certainly explains why certain force powers like force lightning and force choke are reviled as "dark" whereas things like mind control and force persuade are considered "light", even though that makes no sense whatsoever if you think about it for more than ten seconds. The former are applications that were discovered and used most extensively by Sith force sensitives rather than the Jedi, and so were decried as "evil".

Granted, the fact that the Sith go out of their way to act cartoonishly evil pretty much all the time (including the original Sith Empire) does shoot a great big fuckoff hole in that theory, but Star Wars is nothing if not rife with shitty writing.

Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4452 on: May 22, 2014, 11:51:51 pm »
The sad thing is, there's a character in-universe that says there's no light/dark sides of the force, just motivation, and it's considered in-universe to be a very dangerous philosophy that leads to the darkside.

Unfortunately, Yoda is never allowed to be incorrect, and he's the one who opposes it, sooooo... yeah.  There was a book that more or less said "The Jedi have the Force correct, everyone else is wrong."

Incidentally, I'm wondering if I should start over my Jedi Consular and remake him as a Darksider, whereas my Sith Inquisitor is totally Light Sith (then again, he was a slave that was forced into being a Sith Acolyte and then a Sith Apprentice - not that he doesn't take to it on some level, but still.)

Regarding Yoda, though... there was a hint in The Clone Wars cartoon that Yoda once fell into the Dark Side, but managed to come back from it.

Oh, also, he's not the only one of his species shown in the movies - there's also a female of his kind in the Jedi Council in Episode 1.  She's VERY hard to see.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 11:53:41 pm by Magus Silveresti »
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Offline RavynousHunter

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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4453 on: May 23, 2014, 09:45:17 am »
Regarding Yoda, though... there was a hint in The Clone Wars cartoon that Yoda once fell into the Dark Side, but managed to come back from it.

That is...a terrifying prospect.  Not Yoda having "dark" powers, but the fact that he was once that way, and is now rather violently the other.  Basically, Yoda is leading a crusade against people he deems evil, and teaches little children that these people are evil and makes fucking soldiers out of them to fight for his cause.

...To put it another way, that basically makes Yoda a monster on par with Palpatine, if not even worse.  If I remember correctly, all Palpatine really wanted was control.  Yoda apparently wants nothing more than the complete eradication of the Sith and their entire culture.  Yoda is a genocidal maniac, and things suddenly make a lot more fucking sense in that universe.
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Re: Video Game Thread 2.0
« Reply #4454 on: May 23, 2014, 09:51:22 am »
and teaches little children that these people are evil and makes fucking soldiers out of them to fight for his cause.
In fairness, the Jedi as a whole do that. These kids are trained from the age of 6 (I think) to be super soldiers. Super soldiers that fight for a specific ideology, no less. Really, Yoda's no worse than any other Jedi teacher.