Best Political Cartoons

[Witchyjoshy]

If only Americans were as critical of U.S. propaganda as North Korean propaganda...

Define "American propaganda".

"America has the best health care system in the world!"
"America has the fairest distribution of wealth in the world!"
"Anyone can become successful in America if they just work hard!"
"Giving tax cuts to the rich will boost the economy!"

Please, that's hardly comparable.

Mnnnuuuhhmmmmmerrrruhh...
Yeah, it actually kinda is comparable.

[Ultimate Paragon]

If only Americans were as critical of U.S. propaganda as North Korean propaganda...

Define "American propaganda".

"America has the best health care system in the world!"
"America has the fairest distribution of wealth in the world!"
"Anyone can become successful in America if they just work hard!"
"Giving tax cuts to the rich will boost the economy!"

Please, that's hardly comparable.

Mnnnuuuhhmmmmmerrrruhh...
Yeah, it actually kinda is comparable.

How, exactly?  It's not like we're completely isolated from different viewpoints.  It's not like we're sent to a labor camp for watching foreign news media.  It's not like people with different viewpoints are executed after show trials.  It's not like our children are taught to kill foreigners in school.  It's not like our government makes racist statements about the leaders of enemy nations.  It's not like we treat our presidents like deities.

Again I ask, how?

[R. U. Sirius]

How, exactly?  It's not like we're completely isolated from different viewpoints.  It's not like we're sent to a labor camp for watching foreign news media.

Both sets of propaganda teach an absolutist "our state is the best and all others are inferior and untrustworthy" narrative.

It's not like people with different viewpoints are executed after show trials.

Both sets of propoganda promote myths about how wealth is distributed in their society. Both place a false emphasis on meritocracy, which in turn encourages giving more wealth and power to the wealthy and powerful. Both attempt to silence argument and dissent, though in America this is more likely to be through media censorship than outright imprisonment.

It's not like our children are taught to kill foreigners in school.

No, just to view their cultures and beliefs as inferior and unworthy of consideration, while parroting a lot of "America! Fuck yeah!" jingoism.

It's not like our government makes racist statements about the leaders of enemy nations.

No, but absolutist ones such as Shrub Jr.'s "axis of evil" speech still encourage people to view other countries and cultures as "lesser" and "evil" without qualification.

It's not like we treat our presidents like deities.

Maybe not explicitly, but being able to claim with a straight face that your leader has a direct line to God is only one step removed, not to mention criticism of Obama being shut down by screaming "racism!" rather than examining its merits. Yes, a lot of Obama critics ARE racist, but that doesn't mean all criticism of him is motivated by it.

Again I ask, how?

I'm not saying that the U.S. is exactly like North Korea, but there are many more parallels than you seem willing to admit. Your words say "comparability", but your usage seems to be demanding exact equivalence.

[Ultimate Paragon]

How, exactly?  It's not like we're completely isolated from different viewpoints.  It's not like we're sent to a labor camp for watching foreign news media.

Both sets of propaganda teach an absolutist "our state is the best and all others are inferior and untrustworthy" narrative.

It's not like people with different viewpoints are executed after show trials.

Both sets of propoganda promote myths about how wealth is distributed in their society. Both place a false emphasis on meritocracy, which in turn encourages giving more wealth and power to the wealthy and powerful. Both attempt to silence argument and dissent, though in America this is more likely to be through media censorship than outright imprisonment.

It's not like our children are taught to kill foreigners in school.

No, just to view their cultures and beliefs as inferior and unworthy of consideration, while parroting a lot of "America! Fuck yeah!" jingoism.

It's not like our government makes racist statements about the leaders of enemy nations.

No, but absolutist ones such as Shrub Jr.'s "axis of evil" speech still encourage people to view other countries and cultures as "lesser" and "evil" without qualification.

It's not like we treat our presidents like deities.

Maybe not explicitly, but being able to claim with a straight face that your leader has a direct line to God is only one step removed, not to mention criticism of Obama being shut down by screaming "racism!" rather than examining its merits. Yes, a lot of Obama critics ARE racist, but that doesn't mean all criticism of him is motivated by it.

Again I ask, how?

I'm not saying that the U.S. is exactly like North Korea, but there are many more parallels than you seem willing to admit. Your words say "comparability", but your usage seems to be demanding exact equivalence.

There's one element you seem to be ignoring: the lack of dissenting voices.  When you have real dissent, you can't compare it to North Korea with any kind of intellectual honesty.  Moreover, just about all North Korean propaganda comes from the government, directly or indirectly.  Here, however, a lot of this "propaganda" you talk about comes from independent media outlets, businesses, private citizens, etc.  And quite a bit of it is in direct opposition to the government's views and goals.  Apples and oranges, buddy.

[Id82]

[R. U. Sirius]

There's one element you seem to be ignoring: the lack of dissenting voices.  When you have real dissent, you can't compare it to North Korea with any kind of intellectual honesty.  Moreover, just about all North Korean propaganda comes from the government, directly or indirectly.  Here, however, a lot of this "propaganda" you talk about comes from independent media outlets, businesses, private citizens, etc.  And quite a bit of it is in direct opposition to the government's views and goals.  Apples and oranges, buddy.

The only dissent I see in the U.S. that seems to have any teeth is when it's against changes that would actually improve people's lives. George W. Bush was able to push through the largest expansion of executive power and domestic espionage since McCarthy because he had a compliant, submissive Congress willing to bend over backward to not be seen as "against the troops." The Occupy movement had a good head of steam going for a while, but a lack of direction and consensus led to its collapse. Anti-war protesters were investigated for terrorist connections, even when such a suspicion made little or no sense. Obama did a lot of talking about rolling back the excesses of the Cheney/Bush administration, but has done very little walking the walk; meanwhile, the things he did push for, like Obamacare and an end to the Bush tax cuts, ended up neutered or defeated by stonewalling Republicans, while the Tea Party managed to displace several Democrats and moderate Republicans ("moderate" here meaning "not willing to establish a theocracy").

Even if the propaganda I named is coming from multiple sources, it's still in support of the status quo and against any meaningful change. Apples and oranges might not be the same thing, but they're both fruit.

[Second Coming of Madman]

You two are both bullshitting.

The primary difference between North Korea and the United States is the Juche  imprint of communism, which is effectively a political religion worshipping the Great Leader.

In addition, Juche is effectively state racism that states that Koreans are the "cleanest race" and states they are too weak without  a Great Leader.

[Yla]

There's also the reverence of soldiers, police officers et al. as 'heroes' (seriously, this is fucking weird. They do their jobs, no need to almost deify them), the upholding of personal freedom and self-determination to the degree of stubbornness, the promotion of the nuclear family, and probably a few other, subtle things I can't identify right now. To be observed in a lot of American movies.

[Eiki-mun]

Not so much police officers, I would say. I mean, there is a big segment of America that respects cops, but everywhere I've seen, and I've talked to a lot of people nationwide, the general consensus is that cops are, well, pigs, to put it lightly. Racist, money-grubbing, above-the-rules types. Though as someone living in Spokane, I'd say I have a pretty good reason behind such thinking.

That said, the reverence of soldiers is a nail being hit on the head right there. You can't dare say a thing against "the troops"* without invoking the wrath of everyone around you. The others, I'll only state that a lot of them depend on the region you're in. The USA is a very regionalist country. Even just twenty miles can separate a vast political gulf**.

*: Remember when it was "the American boys"? I don't. I was way too young. But when my grandfather was alive, he used that term, and research shows it was pretty common back then.

**: Case in point, again drawing from local experiences, Spokane vs. nearby Coeur d'Alene. Spokane, despite electing McMorris Rodgers, is pretty comparatively liberal, even going so far as to support gay marriage, while Coeur d'Alene is practically Nazitown. At least from my experiences living here.

[guizonde]

That said, the reverence of soldiers is a nail being hit on the head right there. You can't dare say a thing against "the troops"* without invoking the wrath of everyone around you. The others, I'll only state that a lot of them depend on the region you're in. The USA is a very regionalist country. Even just twenty miles can separate a vast political gulf**.

in france, the people are so jaded by war that whenever a soldier gets killed, there are massive protests to bring home the troops. except, here are the hard numbers. there was litteraly a higher death rate working in france telecom than being posted in afghanistan. (deaths in afghanistan and  deaths in france telecom). granted, there have been more dead soldiers, but until 2011 it was actually safer to be frontline troops. i weep for the victims, but at one point, you have to recognize that soldiers are doing their jobs and taking calculated risks. if france's military has a reputation as a wimp, it's not because of the soldiers but because of how "cared for in a humanistic way" they are. a soldier does his job. he can be heroic, he can be a bastard, just like everyone else. deifying them because of some lofty ideals is a bad idea.



(by the way, i referred to soldiers as "he" for speed's sake, and because of the 89 dead in the french forces, all were men, and not out of machoism because women do fight)

[Ultimate Paragon]

Soldiers ARE deserving of our respect.  Even more so than in the past, because none of the troops serving right now have ever been drafted.  Now, if a member of our military does something utterly reprehensible (massacring civilians, raping women, brutalizing POWs, etc.), that respect ought to be withdrawn, but barring that...

[R. U. Sirius]

I'd say it should be the other way around...people earn your respect as an individual first, rather than having it granted because they chose a particular career path. I've met a LOT of veterans, and maybe 10% of those I've met enlisted for any reason more noble than "steady paycheck, three hots and a cot." You can respect the fact that a person's job puts them at risk without having an opinion on the person themselves.

[guizonde]

I'd say it should be the other way around...people earn your respect as an individual first, rather than having it granted because they chose a particular career path. I've met a LOT of veterans, and maybe 10% of those I've met enlisted for any reason more noble than "steady paycheck, three hots and a cot." You can respect the fact that a person's job puts them at risk without having an opinion on the person themselves.

wow, sirius, that's a shame. most veterans i know enlisted for the "pay back service to my country/ serve and protect/ it's the right thing to do" line of thought. one was flat broke and became a lieutenant while earning his master's degree in electronics (army paid for his scholarship if he served, and turned out he was as good at soldiering than he was at soldering). he's the only one still serving after 7 years, and a tour in afghanistan and in mali. but yeah, you're right. being a soldier can be a respectable career, but you don't become respectable by being a soldier.

UP, you're right, in theory, at least. but that respect should not get to the point where you cannot criticize the armed forces. i'm not part of the "soldiers are paid murderers" crowd, mind you. i find it's an ugly job, but unfortunately a necessary one. that's why i agree more with Sirius' point of view. after all, tropes like "general kilgore" stem from reality, just like the "make the flag proud patriot" dog soldier. respect between the profession and the individual should not be intertwined.

[Second Coming of Madman]

Seconded.

[Ultimate Paragon]

Well, in my experience, most members of the armed forces are respectable.  Maybe I've just been lucky in that regard.  And maybe this has colored my perceptions.