Nicu Buculei
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3806/13393515565_0bb4eb3146.jpg)
*Dox removed :(*
Photographer
On July 11, 2008 Nicu Buculei posted a covertly taken picture on his Fedora Community syndicated blog. Simply titled “Upskit”, the posting was short:
This is an interesting reason to use the bus to go from work to home (Bucharest, the 300 bus line):
The photo is not that great, being made with my 2.5 years old phone (I didn't had the guts to reach my backpack and take out the SLR with really big lenses), but think it was taken wile standing and with the phone at the height where you are normally using it for writing text (and imagine what could I do with just a bit of effort). (http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/2008/07/mixed-stuff-fonts-photos-games.html?showComment=1216135080000)
This posting and the picture was syndicated to Planet Fedora and is still available as of 2014. As a matter of fact, the covertly taken image titled upskirt1.jpg is still hosted on his Picasa web album. His actions were met with approval from both Fedora Planet members and admins. Thus began the Fedora Planet Upskirt Incident. A few members of Fedora Planet argued with Nicu to remove the posting and picture. Nicu did neither and posted a web comic in response:
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2820/13393620575_2157dca55b_o.png)
Nicu did not have the stereotypical excuse of self-imposed isolation. He did not dwell in a basement devoid of contact with other human beings. He is married and has a daughter. Despite living with and having prolonged exposure to women he chose to be a voyeur. Unsurprisingly there are multiple instances of voyeurism which he posted publically on his blog. Other members and the administrators of the Fedora Plant Community know of and tolerated his actions.
The arguments by other members of Fedora Planet to justify his actions were quite telling. They range from deflection to persecution complex. All of which have the following in common: they ignore intent, ignore the covert means in which the image was captured and attempt to dehumanize. Arguments shall be organized by author.
Martin Sourada
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7056/13393881554_e8f58a11d9_o.png)
*Dox removed :(*
Fedora Developer!
He is an official Fedora Developer complete with a Fedora People page (http://mso.fedorapeople.org/) and an interview (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Interviews/MartinSourada).
kake pugh, I don't see a difference between showing her legs publicly in bus and the same picture of her legs being seen in web. It is in no way amoral and in no way offensive.
It would be however totaly different, if he tried to do a sneaky picture - which this is not, meaning that there was clearly made no effort to take a photo of "places" that are not seen from ordinary sitting or standing position.
No, people are not objects, but I don't see a reason to ask for permission to publish random picture of anyone taken in public places, unless you might harm that person by publishing it (e.g. by gimping the photo or adding some rude commentary to it). (http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/2008/07/mixed-stuff-fonts-photos-games.html?showComment=1216107300000#c8172304232230629521)
Martin willfully ignores that Nicu used covert means to capture the image and his intent. As Nicu explicitly stated that:
(I didn't had the guts to reach my backpack and take out the SLR with really big lenses), but think it was taken wile standing and with the phone at the height where you are normally using it for writing text (and imagine what could I do with just a bit of effort).
Nicu’s SLR camera was too noticeable due to size and known function. Martin, ignored the bolded descriptor of “really big” as used to describe the size of his camera and why Nicu had bolded his text. Secondly, Martin ignored that the captured image was centered on the woman’s crotch. Finally, Martin ignored that cellphones can be abused as a covert means of capturing images. As stated above, Nicu disguised his actions as texting.
It *is* just a pair of legs and the woman who owns them isn't an object. Would that picture be fine, if he took a photo of long skirt or trousers worn on the same woman? If she didn't want her *legs* to be seen in a public place like the bus, she would have taken long skirt, trousers, or whatever else that covers it. And since there are no problems with taking photos of bottom body parts of women in long skirts or trousers, I don't see a problem here either.
Yeah, nicu's comment *suggested* sexual context, but it's nothing like ripe, or harassing, it's just a *tease*. Open your eyes. She went with short skirt into public but didn't want others to see her panties - that's why she sat with crossed legs. What's the difference if you look at the same woman in bus or in blog? Nicu didn't take a picture you could not see if you were riding the bus. (http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/2008/07/mixed-stuff-fonts-photos-games.html?showComment=1216135080000#c2924496131470717960)
Martin later follows up with a classic example of victim blaming. Clothing does not create, cause, predict and/or determine consent. Once again, he completely ignored Nicu’s actions and intent. The covert nature of the captured image, the image was centered on her crotch, Nicu had the ability to ask beforehand but chose not to, uploading the image to be publically view on his Fedora Planet syndicated blog.
And what's the talk about women not being in IT, and talking about programming => let's make a joke about his sexuality? It's the same in math and in physics and it's definitely not a result of any scientist taking what you call dirty pictures :-p
That's how people see us - devoted to our work/hobby and, probably thus, unable to make proper social contacts (mostly) with "normal" people. Watch IT Crowd or The Big Bang Theory series, and I think you get what I mean. (http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/2008/07/mixed-stuff-fonts-photos-games.html?showComment=1216135080000#c2924496131470717960)
Willful ignorance and projection are a terrible combination. When fault is attributed to everyone else introspection and improvement are impossible.
Manuel Amador
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3726/13393887794_3204e14278_o.png)
*Dox removed :(*
Software engineer
It may be rude to take/post such a picture but:
"Women's bodies are not public property, and wearing a skirt is not an invitation to be photographed and published on the Internet."
is wrong. They are not public property, truism of truisms, but she is publicly displaying it, hence making it accessible for other's eyes and cameras, and there is no moral principle saying that private property in a public place may not be seen. If you let us see it, you let us capture it, period. If you don't want to be seen, use a different skirt.
Now, calling your attention to it, or touching you is an altogether different thing. All I'm saying is that, if you publicly display something, do not complain when someone takes a picture of it. (http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/2008/07/mixed-stuff-fonts-photos-games.html?showComment=1216678980000#c5805563468043868453)
Another creepy example of victim blaming via the willful ignorance of Nicu’s actions and intent. To Manuel there is no reasonable expectation of privacy. Given his statement, “…and there is no moral principle saying that private property in a public place may not be seen.”, one has to question if he intended for privacy to exist at all. If the designation of private cannot prevent viewing than what purpose does it serve?
Xavi Francisco
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7209/13393661193_360a6a8694_o.jpg)
*Dox removed :(*
Telecommunication Engineer
Oh, come on!
That are just a pair of legs...What's wrong with that? What kind of twisted morality thinks that a pair of legs are ugly?
In Spain it's not illegal to take photos of people in *public places*
I do not say that stalking is a good practice, but this is just a photo. Programmers are people too, with their virtues and vices, motivations and so over. What's the difference between saying "No legs should be posted here" and "If you watch utubes our almighty god will make you burn in hell"? In my place this is called censorship.
You don't like it, you don't watch it. We are not talking about hard pr0n or pictures of dying children, just a pair of legs... (http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/2008/07/mixed-stuff-fonts-photos-games.html?showComment=1216114020000#c1615615846826761879)
Xavi provided a slew of deflections while willfully ignoring Nicu’s actions and intent. One particular attempt at deflection is quite telling, “I do not say that stalking is a good practice, but this is just a photo.” He came so close to realization only to deflect away.
Binstaffula Abdul Jaffa
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2807/13393889294_1269190f29_o.jpg)
*Dox removed :(*
IT Tech, teaches English in Japan
Jesus. To the people whinging, eat a bag of cement and harden the fuck up. In the grand scheme of things in the Linux community, a picture entitled 'upskirt' is not a big worry.
There is a big difference from nicu taking the snap and hosting it on his blog to websites that exploit thousands of women in the same way, and sell these photos off to paying members.
If you want to crucify someone for the victimization of women, go for the pornography sites that promote themes such as rape and voyeurism. (http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/2008/07/mixed-stuff-fonts-photos-games.html?showComment=1216616400000#c6248723732537867088)
Another case of being so close to understanding yet being so far away. He deemed this instance of voyeurism to be the victimization of a women yet willfully ignored Nicu’s actions and intent. The covert nature of the captured image, the image was centered on her crotch, Nicu had the ability to ask beforehand but had chosen not to, uploaded the image publically on his Fedora Planet syndicated blog. Afterwards he tried to deflect attention away from Nicu’s actions to pornography. He also forgot that pornography has consent from the persons involved, Nicu’s actions did not.
I wonder how many people actually are disgusted by this, and how many people are saying they're disgusted by it because the majority seems to be swaying that way, whilst downloading the picture?
Oh, and any male here who said that he wouldn't look if he saw that sitting across the bus from you, is a liar. Any guy who said he had no fantasy what so ever, even in passing, is a liar. (http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/2008/07/mixed-stuff-fonts-photos-games.html?showComment=1216616400000#c6248723732537867088)
The stereotype that all men are predictably, sexually dangerous emerged once again. He depicted all men as little more than wild dogs. Empathy? Self-restraint? Not being a sexual predator? Not possible according to Binstaffula.
Where were the administrators of Fedora Planet during the incident? What actions they undertake? Any form of official response occurred two years later when Robyn Bergeron brought the issue up during an argument about the size and placement of an Ubuntu logo on Friday June 18 19:16:40 UTC 2010. That Ubuntu logo received more attention than the Fedora Upskirt Incident.
#3: I think the reasons for doing so are just entirely too big-brotherish. Seriously: We've had issues in the past where people have posted questionable content - and I'll just say Nicu, because I'm sure he's reading this (HI NICU!) and there's no point in being subtle, and I think that's the scenario most people are thinking of. Now, I happen to enjoy Nicu's photos and content and I actively go out out of my way to read his non-planet postings - which are non-planet because someone -just talked- to him. As a -Friend- would. (https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2010-June/008508.html)
The incident was known for years, the response was to privately nudge Nicu. A slap on the wrist and an unwillingness to discuss the problem. Their toleration of Nicu’s behavior only encouraged it further. Nicu’s following posting on Monday June 21 06:52:44 UTC 2010 demonstrated two points: he will not stop posing such content and he will use sneaky methods to ensure his content is syndicated.
Actually I went the extra-mile and moved my photography posts to a different blog, to have complete freedom and don't be bothered about what some or other people think is politically correct.
Actually very recently I had some highly controversial content (Fedora related) which I was tempted to put on planet, it would have generated a flamewar probably much bigger than this, and asked for advice from friends in the community. The feedback was split, some said "do it", some said "don't do", so my choice was to not post it directly and sneak on the back door.
The truth is, I have some content which is NOT posted yet on the other blog either, but not because I am scared by the controversy, but because I didn't find yet a way to harmonize *that* type of content with a Free license (https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2010-June/008563.html)
To avoid any semblance of conflict the administrators of Fedora Planet allowed Nicu to continue. His blog is still syndicated by Fedora Planet to this day and he still remains a member of that community.