Best Political Cartoons

[Lt. Fred]

We can't have people thinking Israel cares about something other than itself, now can we?

Also, if you're a critic of the policies of the state of Israel, you're an anti-semite, but we have no idea from whence this new wave of anti-semitism comes.

Also, you have to justify your criticism of us to us (because we get to decide what is a non-bigoted level of criticism).

[RavynousHunter]

Its sad, really.  No human is above being able to be called out on their idiocy...not me, not the Pope, not Israel's government, nobody.

Then again, they'd probably consider me insane for daring to treat all humans as equals.

Remember children, you can simultaneously be FOR equality while still treating other people like lesser lifeforms.  I know I'm one to talk, but...how do I humility?

[Meshakhad]

Really? Scandinavia really is quite an incredibly wonderful place. I don't mean to belittle Israel; you're (they're?) way better on this stuff than Australia. But I don't think that, for instance, Israel has anywhere near the Gini of, say, Sweden. Not to mention labour relations law!

Israel is less liberal and more leftist. And they've moved to the right since they were founded. But Israel's first prime minister, David Ben-Gurion, was friendly with Ho Chi Minh. In fact, Israel is probably not that far off from what Vietnam could have been if the US had supported Vietnamese independence.

Also progressive except Palestine and African refugees

I won't disagree that Israel's treatment of the African refugees has been atrocious.

Also, if you're a critic of the policies of the state of Israel, you're an anti-semite, but we have no idea from whence this new wave of anti-semitism comes.

I've not seen much of that sentiment, actually. A common opinion is that holding Israel to a double standard while not demanding the same from other countries (particularly the Arabs) is anti-Semitism. I think this idea has merit, but it gets murky, and can be used to try to whitewash Israel's actions. But merely criticizing Israeli policies is not anti-Semitism. If it were, then the entire Israeli left are anti-Semites.

[kefkaownsall]

First of all the double standard is more that the west gives Israel a free pass while condemning other countries.  Like we condemn the Chinese for doing the exact same thing in Tibet

[Osama bin Bambi]

Also, if you're a critic of the policies of the state of Israel, you're an anti-semite, but we have no idea from whence this new wave of anti-semitism comes.

I've not seen much of that sentiment, actually. A common opinion is that holding Israel to a double standard while not demanding the same from other countries (particularly the Arabs) is anti-Semitism. I think this idea has merit, but it gets murky, and can be used to try to whitewash Israel's actions. But merely criticizing Israeli policies is not anti-Semitism. If it were, then the entire Israeli left are anti-Semites.

Also, another issue with that argument is that Arabs are not a homogenous group, and Palestinians have experienced racism in other Middle Eastern nations because they are essentially refugees. Shifting the blame back on "Arabs" (which is hard to define in this case, because some people use it as a buzzword for Palestinians or even Middle Easterners in general) demonizes them while refusing to understand the complexity of the situation, erases Palestinians of their own identity and experiences in other nations, and is a distraction from the fact that the root cause of the Palestinian refugee crises is Israel's and only Israel's actions, not the actions of Jordan or Lebanon or whosoever.

[Meshakhad]

Also, if you're a critic of the policies of the state of Israel, you're an anti-semite, but we have no idea from whence this new wave of anti-semitism comes.

I've not seen much of that sentiment, actually. A common opinion is that holding Israel to a double standard while not demanding the same from other countries (particularly the Arabs) is anti-Semitism. I think this idea has merit, but it gets murky, and can be used to try to whitewash Israel's actions. But merely criticizing Israeli policies is not anti-Semitism. If it were, then the entire Israeli left are anti-Semites.

Also, another issue with that argument is that Arabs are not a homogenous group, and Palestinians have experienced racism in other Middle Eastern nations because they are essentially refugees. Shifting the blame back on "Arabs" (which is hard to define in this case, because some people use it as a buzzword for Palestinians or even Middle Easterners in general) demonizes them while refusing to understand the complexity of the situation, erases Palestinians of their own identity and experiences in other nations, and is a distraction from the fact that the root cause of the Palestinian refugee crises is Israel's and only Israel's actions, not the actions of Jordan or Lebanon or whosoever.

I disagree. The Palestinian refugee crisis, in my opinion, stems primarily from bad luck. The Palestinians left in 1948 primarily because they didn't want to get caught in the middle of a warzone, which I find to be a perfectly rational response. They figured they'd come back after the Arab armies had crushed the Jews. Unfortunately for them, their side lost. Another problem is that they didn't keep extensive records of who owned what, so returning their property isn't a cut-and-dry issue.

The Arabs (primarily the Syrians and Lebanese) do get some of the blame for exacerbating the refugee crisis, by refusing to let the refugees assimilate. I should point out that the Jordanians DID let them assimilate, which is another reason why I like Jordan.

There's a lot of outdated rhetoric floating about on both sides. While some of the Arab nations did historically use Israel as a boogeyman, Syria and Hezbollah (and Iran, although they're not Arabs) are the only ones doing it now. The Arab people do care strongly about the Israel/Palestinian conflict, but their governments are actually more inclined to back Israel against Syria or Iran these days. If the conflict were to be resolved soon, I think you'd see Israel, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia forming a new power bloc to counter Iran.

[kefkaownsall]

Or Iran decides fuck it and quits

[Lt. Fred]

Also, if you're a critic of the policies of the state of Israel, you're an anti-semite, but we have no idea from whence this new wave of anti-semitism comes.

I've not seen much of that sentiment, actually. A common opinion is that holding Israel to a double standard while not demanding the same from other countries (particularly the Arabs) is anti-Semitism. I think this idea has merit, but it gets murky, and can be used to try to whitewash Israel's actions. But merely criticizing Israeli policies is not anti-Semitism. If it were, then the entire Israeli left are anti-Semites.

Thanks for the explanation re: leftism and liberalism. I think I probably agree.

As for this above bit, I totally disagree. That's basically the only tactic of the entire (powerful) "Jewish Lobby"*; if you disagree with us, you're an anti-semite. Doesn't work in Israel, of course, because accusing Jews of anti-semitism is lunacy in a country full of them, but it works well in the West. Who wants to be called a Nazi? So you censor your even-handed documentary on Ariel Sharon or you vote to send over some more illegal cluster munitions, but you forget about it because if you had believed you had been forced by a powerful Israeli-funded lobby to send illegal cluster munitions to Israel, you'd be an anti-semite, wouldn't you?

As for the double-standard thing: I've yet to see it. AIJAC et al often accuse Israeli critics of anti-semitism on the grounds that it is unfair to criticise Israel at all, since it is not The Worst Country In The World. Ignoring the obvious point that they criticise a bunch of countries- not all of them can be The Worst Country In The World after all- this is an invalid ad hominem attack anyway. You don't have to be The Worst Country to do something wrong. Is it right to blockade Gaza or wrong? This should be argued on the merits. Just because AIPAC says everyone who disagrees must be an anti-semite does not make it right.

Now, why is Israel in particular a big issue in the left? Who cares? Are they right or wrong? That's all that matters. I think they're mostly right.

* I think a better term is Likud Lobby, firstly because they don't represent most Jews, secondly because they don't represent the interests of Israel and thirdly because they do insist everyone march in lock-step with Netanyahu et al, or you're an anti-semite. Even if you're Jewish, you're an anti-semite if you disagree with Netanyahu, AIPAC or the AIJAC.

[kefkaownsall]

I have seen Jews be called no true jew for being anti Israel

[Lt. Fred]

I have seen Jews be called no true jew for being anti Israel

Or not even anti-Israeli, just critical of Zionism or the actions of the IDF. That's enough to prove a Jew is actually a self-hater, to be critical of Ariel Sharon.

[Meshakhad]

I guess I haven't run into that type on the Internet. And in RL, my yarmulke makes a pretty effective shield against accusations of anti-Semitism. But for the record, I do dislike Netanyahu. I would prefer to see Tzipi Livni in power (or for Ariel Sharon to recover from his coma). And I do support a two-state solution. For that matter, I don't think a one-state solution is an option at all. The only one that would be remotely feasible would be Israel annexing the West Bank and Gaza (or just ignoring Gaza) and evicting the Palestinians, which would be ethnic cleansing.

[Lt. Fred]

I actually, to a certain degree, understand Israeli politicians' conundrum. The Palestinians aren't negotiating a compromise position- they're demanding their absolute rights, recognised under international law. That means that the Israelis are going to be giving up a lot- chiefly land, forcing Israelis to leave, ect- in return for nothing they don't already have. That's without a military defeat, mind; they're giving it up in the interests of international peace and long-term stability, not any hard short-term objective fact. They're basically forcing a million people out of their homes for charity. A pretty unappealing prospect electorally! Particularly when they're armed political extremists that make up your base (if you're Bibi or Sharon).

Also, I disagree about Sharon. I don't know much about his domestic policy, but I do have a good idea of his military record; it sucks. Total blowhard, Patton-lite, with a side of mass-murder.

[Thejebusfire]

[Meshakhad]

Also, I disagree about Sharon. I don't know much about his domestic policy, but I do have a good idea of his military record; it sucks. Total blowhard, Patton-lite, with a side of mass-murder.

He's also the guy who broke with his own party to enact the Gaza pullout, which some predicted could lead to civil war.

[lord gibbon]

Ariel Sharon had a dreadful military career, but his career as leader was much greater. I think Israel has really gone downhill since they lost him.