Author Topic: Good person test video.  (Read 15194 times)

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Offline e13

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Re: Good person test video.
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2012, 12:03:59 am »
Am I the only one who thinks that what Jesus did in the bible wasn't a sacrifice? I mean he was tortured and put to death but then just went up to heaven to be with his sky daddy? Yeah sounds like a huuuge sacrifice. Wouldn't a bigger better sacrifice have been him saying I as the son of God will be put to death and be taken down to hell as a payment to Satan so the rest of the people on earth will be spared from that torment after they die? That to me sounds like a sacrifice.

I think the real sacrifice is the Judas paradox. Jesus had to come to Earth and died for our sins, suffer for a few hours, and die. Were it not for Judas, Jesus would never have died for atonement of our sins. Jesus suffers physically for a few hours, Judas is in hell for almost 2000 years. In spite of this, we worship Jesus for his suffering in the role of our atonement while ignoring the greater suffering on the part of Judas (completely ignoring the fact that the entire series of events was pre-determined and Judas was nothing but a pawn in God's plan for Jesus' crucifixion).

Of course, assuming the Christian interpretation of history is correct.
I always felt bad for Judas. Seriously, always.

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Offline Cataclysm

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Re: Good person test video.
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2012, 12:30:05 am »
Am I the only one who thinks that what Jesus did in the bible wasn't a sacrifice? I mean he was tortured and put to death but then just went up to heaven to be with his sky daddy? Yeah sounds like a huuuge sacrifice. Wouldn't a bigger better sacrifice have been him saying I as the son of God will be put to death and be taken down to hell as a payment to Satan so the rest of the people on earth will be spared from that torment after they die? That to me sounds like a sacrifice.

I think the real sacrifice is the Judas paradox. Jesus had to come to Earth and died for our sins, suffer for a few hours, and die. Were it not for Judas, Jesus would never have died for atonement of our sins. Jesus suffers physically for a few hours, Judas is in hell for almost 2000 years. In spite of this, we worship Jesus for his suffering in the role of our atonement while ignoring the greater suffering on the part of Judas (completely ignoring the fact that the entire series of events was pre-determined and Judas was nothing but a pawn in God's plan for Jesus' crucifixion).

If Ghandi and Hitler were at the same party in 1937, and I'm a racist who wants to kill Ghandi, but accidentally kills Hitler preventing the holocaust, does that make me a good person since I saved a bunch of lives?

All I'm saying is that we should factor intention when people do their actions.
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

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Offline e13

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Re: Good person test video.
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2012, 12:45:56 am »
Am I the only one who thinks that what Jesus did in the bible wasn't a sacrifice? I mean he was tortured and put to death but then just went up to heaven to be with his sky daddy? Yeah sounds like a huuuge sacrifice. Wouldn't a bigger better sacrifice have been him saying I as the son of God will be put to death and be taken down to hell as a payment to Satan so the rest of the people on earth will be spared from that torment after they die? That to me sounds like a sacrifice.

I think the real sacrifice is the Judas paradox. Jesus had to come to Earth and died for our sins, suffer for a few hours, and die. Were it not for Judas, Jesus would never have died for atonement of our sins. Jesus suffers physically for a few hours, Judas is in hell for almost 2000 years. In spite of this, we worship Jesus for his suffering in the role of our atonement while ignoring the greater suffering on the part of Judas (completely ignoring the fact that the entire series of events was pre-determined and Judas was nothing but a pawn in God's plan for Jesus' crucifixion).

If Ghandi and Hitler were at the same party in 1937, and I'm a racist who wants to kill Ghandi, but accidentally kills Hitler preventing the holocaust, does that make me a good person since I saved a bunch of lives?

All I'm saying is that we should factor intention when people do their actions.
Depending on translation and what Bible one reads, Judas was simply trying to provoke Jesus into action or doing as requested.

Or, in my favorite interpretation, singing out his frustrations that he doesn't know how to love him!

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Offline Søren

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Re: Good person test video.
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2012, 01:21:28 am »
This is just epic in its faggotry
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Offline Sylvana

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Re: Good person test video.
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2012, 05:13:31 am »
Am I the only one who thinks that what Jesus did in the bible wasn't a sacrifice? I mean he was tortured and put to death but then just went up to heaven to be with his sky daddy? Yeah sounds like a huuuge sacrifice. Wouldn't a bigger better sacrifice have been him saying I as the son of God will be put to death and be taken down to hell as a payment to Satan so the rest of the people on earth will be spared from that torment after they die? That to me sounds like a sacrifice.

I think the real sacrifice is the Judas paradox. Jesus had to come to Earth and died for our sins, suffer for a few hours, and die. Were it not for Judas, Jesus would never have died for atonement of our sins. Jesus suffers physically for a few hours, Judas is in hell for almost 2000 years. In spite of this, we worship Jesus for his suffering in the role of our atonement while ignoring the greater suffering on the part of Judas (completely ignoring the fact that the entire series of events was pre-determined and Judas was nothing but a pawn in God's plan for Jesus' crucifixion).

If Ghandi and Hitler were at the same party in 1937, and I'm a racist who wants to kill Ghandi, but accidentally kills Hitler preventing the holocaust, does that make me a good person since I saved a bunch of lives?

All I'm saying is that we should factor intention when people do their actions.
Depending on translation and what Bible one reads, Judas was simply trying to provoke Jesus into action or doing as requested.

Or, in my favorite interpretation, singing out his frustrations that he doesn't know how to love him!

Every interpretation I have read basically has it that Judas was as loyal and great as all the other disciples, but after being singled out by Jesus at the feast he is possessed by god (not a demon or satan or something god does this, just like how the pharo of egypt wanted to release the jews during moses time but god hardened his heart so that more suffering could befall egypt.) to go and betray Jesus to the temple priests.

So from what I can see he was not coerced he was downright mind controlled into doing his part in the sacrifice of Jesus yet always comes out in religious classes as the bad guy because he betrayed Jesus.

Of course this all assumes the story told in the bible has any kind of actual validity. What I just mentioned I got when I was bored and reading the bible properly during a bible study where the others were arguing in circles again. Its amazing how much reading the bible properly gives one an insight into how full of crap Christianity really is.

Seriously though, Jesus was gay. The regular references to 'the disciple that Jesus loved' give it away. Not to mention how the other disciples speak to 'the disciple that Jesus loved' because they think he knows something that Jesus told him in private that he hadn't shared with them.

Offline e13

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Re: Good person test video.
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2012, 09:36:54 am »
Am I the only one who thinks that what Jesus did in the bible wasn't a sacrifice? I mean he was tortured and put to death but then just went up to heaven to be with his sky daddy? Yeah sounds like a huuuge sacrifice. Wouldn't a bigger better sacrifice have been him saying I as the son of God will be put to death and be taken down to hell as a payment to Satan so the rest of the people on earth will be spared from that torment after they die? That to me sounds like a sacrifice.

I think the real sacrifice is the Judas paradox. Jesus had to come to Earth and died for our sins, suffer for a few hours, and die. Were it not for Judas, Jesus would never have died for atonement of our sins. Jesus suffers physically for a few hours, Judas is in hell for almost 2000 years. In spite of this, we worship Jesus for his suffering in the role of our atonement while ignoring the greater suffering on the part of Judas (completely ignoring the fact that the entire series of events was pre-determined and Judas was nothing but a pawn in God's plan for Jesus' crucifixion).

If Ghandi and Hitler were at the same party in 1937, and I'm a racist who wants to kill Ghandi, but accidentally kills Hitler preventing the holocaust, does that make me a good person since I saved a bunch of lives?

All I'm saying is that we should factor intention when people do their actions.
Depending on translation and what Bible one reads, Judas was simply trying to provoke Jesus into action or doing as requested.

Or, in my favorite interpretation, singing out his frustrations that he doesn't know how to love him!

Every interpretation I have read basically has it that Judas was as loyal and great as all the other disciples, but after being singled out by Jesus at the feast he is possessed by god (not a demon or satan or something god does this, just like how the pharo of egypt wanted to release the jews during moses time but god hardened his heart so that more suffering could befall egypt.) to go and betray Jesus to the temple priests.

So from what I can see he was not coerced he was downright mind controlled into doing his part in the sacrifice of Jesus yet always comes out in religious classes as the bad guy because he betrayed Jesus.

Of course this all assumes the story told in the bible has any kind of actual validity. What I just mentioned I got when I was bored and reading the bible properly during a bible study where the others were arguing in circles again. Its amazing how much reading the bible properly gives one an insight into how full of crap Christianity really is.

Seriously though, Jesus was gay. The regular references to 'the disciple that Jesus loved' give it away. Not to mention how the other disciples speak to 'the disciple that Jesus loved' because they think he knows something that Jesus told him in private that he hadn't shared with them.
"Love" does not necessarily mean you want to fuck someone or marry them. Not that I'd care either way, just saying that I love my friends a lot, but not romantically.

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Offline Cataclysm

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Re: Good person test video.
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2012, 11:10:09 am »
And you can love people romantically without wanting to have sex with them.
I'd be more sympathetic if people here didn't act like they knew what they were saying when they were saying something very much wrong.

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Offline e13

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Re: Good person test video.
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2012, 12:51:46 pm »
And you can love people romantically without wanting to have sex with them.
Which I never contradicted. So we can agree that simply using the english word "love" is not sufficient means for declaring a person's preference for long term relationships.

Many languages have different words for "love" to signify the different levels. English is sadly lacking.

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Offline N. De Plume

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Re: Good person test video.
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2012, 08:25:29 pm »
Depending on translation and what Bible one reads, Judas was simply trying to provoke Jesus into action or doing as requested.
I have never really seen that outside of Last Temptation of Christ or that Gospel of Judas thing that made news a few years back. Maybe also a few other comments from non-religious folks, too. But nothing that was supposed to be treated as canon.

I know I heard from at least one Catholic source, can’t recall where exactly, that we shouldn’t assume Judas was hell-bound, because only God gets the final say. But this source stopped short of making Judas out to be sympathetic in any way.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 08:28:23 pm by N. De Plume »
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Offline Osama bin Bambi

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Re: Good person test video.
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2012, 08:31:49 pm »
Depending on translation and what Bible one reads, Judas was simply trying to provoke Jesus into action or doing as requested.
I have never really seen that outside of Last Temptation of Christ or that Gospel of Judas thing that made news a few years back. Maybe also a few other comments from non-religious folks, too. But nothing that was supposed to be treated as canon.

I know I heard from at least one Catholic source, can’t recall where exactly, that we shouldn’t assume Judas was hell-bound, because only God gets the final say. But this source stopped short of making Judas out to be sympathetic in any way.

I think I read once that Judas is in Hell, but unlike everyone else trapped down there, he gets vacation off.
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Offline N. De Plume

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Re: Good person test video.
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2012, 08:50:35 pm »
I think I read once that Judas is in Hell, but unlike everyone else trapped down there, he gets vacation off.

Well, that would be thoughtful.
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Offline e13

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Re: Good person test video.
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2012, 01:18:16 am »
I think I read once that Judas is in Hell, but unlike everyone else trapped down there, he gets vacation off.

Well, that would be thoughtful.
I based my knowledge on talks with a Bible study group in college. *shrug*

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Offline Søren

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Re: Good person test video.
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2012, 01:56:03 am »
I don't know why. But I would totally fuck Mr Nice Guy
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Offline Witchyjoshy

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Re: Good person test video.
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2012, 03:48:02 am »
Actually, my understanding of Judas was that he was trying to save Jesus from himself.

He saw Jesus going far and was worried for his life, so he more or less tried to report him when the things he was saying were just imprisonment worthy rather than death worthy.

He didn't realize that the Pharisees were going to have him executed anyways, and when he realized what he had done, that's when he went insane with grief.

A god that would send that man to hell is a dick and unworthy of worship.
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Offline Rime

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Re: Good person test video.
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2012, 07:46:05 am »
"So stop living for yourself, turn from your sins, and come to Jesus."

Isn't living your entire life so that you can escape torment and live in paradise living for yourself?

And in some cases it's so obvious that it makes me want to vomit.  Seriously though, I think the attitude can be found on a Bell curve where the extremely humble folks are on one end and the condescending selfish fundies can be found on the other.

Am I the only one who thinks that what Jesus did in the bible wasn't a sacrifice? I mean he was tortured and put to death but then just went up to heaven to be with his sky daddy? Yeah sounds like a huuuge sacrifice. Wouldn't a bigger better sacrifice have been him saying I as the son of God will be put to death and be taken down to hell as a payment to Satan so the rest of the people on earth will be spared from that torment after they die? That to me sounds like a sacrifice.

I think the real sacrifice is the Judas paradox. Jesus had to come to Earth and died for our sins, suffer for a few hours, and die. Were it not for Judas, Jesus would never have died for atonement of our sins. Jesus suffers physically for a few hours, Judas is in hell for almost 2000 years. In spite of this, we worship Jesus for his suffering in the role of our atonement while ignoring the greater suffering on the part of Judas (completely ignoring the fact that the entire series of events was pre-determined and Judas was nothing but a pawn in God's plan for Jesus' crucifixion).

Of course, assuming the Christian interpretation of history is correct.

Many are now making a tidy explanation that he endured "the second death" as a payment for the redeeming those who accepted Christ so they wouldn't have to (and there are apparently Scriptures that back this up).  I had heard an explanation once that Jesus spent 3 days in Hell rescuing the wrongly condemned.
And when we're done soul searching,
And we carry the weight and die for a cause.
Is misery made beautiful
Right before our eyes.

Mercy be revealed, or blind us where we stand?