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Community => Politics and Government => Topic started by: ironbite on January 20, 2021, 12:22:48 pm

Title: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: ironbite on January 20, 2021, 12:22:48 pm
Making a massive thread in order to chronical all that the 46th President of the United States will be doing to clean up the mess from 45.  So enjoy!

Ironbite-I know I will.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: dpareja on January 20, 2021, 04:32:14 pm
I'm just waiting to see how long it takes before someone says "apology tour".
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: niam2023 on January 20, 2021, 06:29:28 pm
Shaun, some Breadtuber guy, is immediately going ahead and trashing being in favor of Biden.

As far as the far right, well, we have QAnon melting down in one corner, and the screaming fits of Madison Cawthorn in another.

"MUH MOUNTAIN VALUES!" -says man unaware that to most of the country "mountain values" equate to incest, cannibalism, and drinking raw nuclear waste.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: dpareja on January 20, 2021, 08:30:30 pm
Here's a fact I found interesting that's reflective of the country Joe Biden now leads: only six states have Senators from (or caucusing with) different parties, which is the lowest such number since at least the 1980s. (Those states are Maine, Montana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, and Wisconsin.)

It might have been lower at some point prior to the 1980s, but that would have been in the days of either broad coalitions (such as the FDR's New Deal coalition) or extreme polarization (such as around the Civil War).

EDIT: Further, in the forty-four states without split delegations, that state gave its electoral votes (or, in the case of Nebraska, its two statewide electoral votes) to the Presidential candidate of the same party as its Senators.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: Cloud3514 on January 21, 2021, 01:53:14 am
Shaun, some Breadtuber guy, is immediately going ahead and trashing being in favor of Biden.

Oh, so he's just continuing the shtick he's had going since Biden was declared the presumptive nominee. Shaun's also been collecting thousands of dollars a month on Patreon while only putting out a single video every few months, if not longer. The time between his two most recent videos was over eight months. They're all pretty well made, but I've been questioning how much of the work he does producing them after Jen, who he used the share the channel with, claimed to do most, if not all, of the work on researching his video on the Unite the Right rally (https://twitter.com/deaths_cool/status/1287872558277132289). She kinda soured my view on him, especially since by that point I'd unfollowed him on Twitter because all he ever seems to do on Twitter nowadays is bitch about Biden and the Democrats. He's British, for the record.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: Askold on January 21, 2021, 02:18:08 am
No one should be surprised that Biden had already set up a long list of things to do on day 1. The trashfire caused by the previous president was obvious and a veteran politician like Biden actually does his homework and prepares for his job.


It is funny to see how right wingers are panicking about it though.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: niam2023 on January 21, 2021, 02:42:36 pm
Shaun, some Breadtuber guy, is immediately going ahead and trashing being in favor of Biden.

Oh, so he's just continuing the shtick he's had going since Biden was declared the presumptive nominee. Shaun's also been collecting thousands of dollars a month on Patreon while only putting out a single video every few months, if not longer. The time between his two most recent videos was over eight months. They're all pretty well made, but I've been questioning how much of the work he does producing them after Jen, who he used the share the channel with, claimed to do most, if not all, of the work on researching his video on the Unite the Right rally (https://twitter.com/deaths_cool/status/1287872558277132289). She kinda soured my view on him, especially since by that point I'd unfollowed him on Twitter because all he ever seems to do on Twitter nowadays is bitch about Biden and the Democrats. He's British, for the record.

Yeah, that tracks really well with what I've seen. "What? We don't have problems with women! Just these specific women!" He really gives off a lot of tankie vibes.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: Cloud3514 on January 21, 2021, 04:29:54 pm
Nah, I wouldn't say Shaun's a tankie, but I would say he's a bit of a hypocrite considering that he takes credit for work that he didn't do by omitting the people who actually did the work. He'll criticize capitalism all day, but will still reap the benefits of capitalism when it suits him.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: dpareja on January 21, 2021, 07:27:05 pm
https://www.politico.com/newsletters/playbook/2021/01/21/democrats-caught-flat-footed-by-total-control-of-washington-491476

Oh my goodness that headline.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: DarkPhoenix on January 22, 2021, 04:19:22 pm
https://www.politico.com/newsletters/playbook/2021/01/21/democrats-caught-flat-footed-by-total-control-of-washington-491476

Oh my goodness that headline.

Yep, they were caught so flat-footed that I bet they'll have multiple bills passed by the time the Republicans under Trump (who also had complete control of Washington) managed to come up with ONE...
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: dpareja on January 22, 2021, 08:04:09 pm
Only if they kill the legislative filibuster. Manchin ruled it out, but if there's one thing that might get him to vote for it, it's what McConnell's doing right now with the organizing resolution.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: Tolpuddle Martyr on January 28, 2021, 01:05:16 am
The biggest danger in said "clean up effort" is that it may not deal with those most directly responsible for the worst of the mess. Already it's looking like the Trump impeachment is DOA (https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/26/rand-paul-impeachment-462655) and initial efforts to combat, in Biden's words, white supremacy look like being downgraded to a more politically palatable focus on "domestic violent extremism" (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/27/far-right-extremism-us-terror-biden), mollifying the Vantos among us who want to conflate left wing grouplets like Antifa with the people who actually broke into the US Capitol and killed people.

I know that plenty of that is down to Republicans being obstructionist but the reality is that the whole planet saw US representative democracy cracking under the strain, from the cheap seats it looked like it could have gone either way. For years we've seen emboldened fascists taking lives because - despite the far right demonstrating it's lethality and opposition to democracy (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/08/21/i-warned-of-right-wing-violence-in-2009-it-caused-an-uproar-i-was-right/), governments aren't prepared to confront the threat. Whatever is done to fix the economy and tackle coronavirus will make things better but the powers that be in America have allowed their right fringe to get bold enough to try and overturn elections and their footsoldiers ready to smash their way into the seat of US government baring Confederate battle flags and Nazi regalia killing people who get in their way.

If y'all don't defang your hard right they'll smell weakness and come back to bite you. The only thing they respect is strength, they certainly couldn't give a shit about niceties like law, order or democracy.

Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: Cloud3514 on January 30, 2021, 10:32:11 pm
So the Democrats announced that they're planning to send $1400 checks to supplement the $600 we last got. And Twitter has decided that this means that the Democrats have moved the goalposts... by doing exactly what they said they would.

Why the fuck do I even read Twitter anymore?
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: niam2023 on January 30, 2021, 11:39:24 pm
I didn't know you had a masochistic side, Cloud.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: Cloud3514 on January 31, 2021, 12:12:16 am
I mean, there are certain accounts I never read responses to for the sake of my own sanity. Really, Twitter is useful to me to just express what's actively on my mind at the moment.

I do want to clarify though that I don't even disagree with the people projecting their goalpost move onto the Democrats. They can and should do more, but they're still doing what they promised here.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: dpareja on January 31, 2021, 03:31:17 am
(click to show/hide)

I can absolutely see how a lot of people would think that the promise was for a $2,000 cheque, and not just $1,400 on top of the $600 already approved.

(Image spoiled because large.)
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: Cloud3514 on January 31, 2021, 04:13:49 am
And I would agree with you if this wasn't already explicitly the plan. It started with "hey, let's give another $1200," then the Republicans forced it down to $600, then Trump of all people called for $2000, which the Democrats ran with. When the Republicans refused to budge even after Trump called for $2000 and we got $600, the Democrats started promising an additional $1400 for a total of $2000. I get where they're coming from. And I do agree that more should be done, but it's still in line with what was promised.

Besides, apparently the people that didn't get the $600 already are getting the full $2000.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: dpareja on January 31, 2021, 04:30:52 am
https://www.mediaite.com/election-2020/a-betrayal-georgia-voters-enraged-after-democrats-promise-of-2000-checks-becomes-1400-under-biden-stimulus-plan/

Well, for one, there's Mediaite on how Georgia voters and organizers reacted to the clarification that the plan was always for the additional stimulus to be (for most people) $1,400, not $2,000. In one word: betrayed.

If enough people (and let's keep in mind, Warnock beat Loeffler by only 93,272 votes in the runoff, so "enough" in this context is "about a hundred thousand"--Ossoff's margin over Perdue was even tighter, at 54,944 votes, never mind Biden's over Trump!) perceive you to have promised one thing, even if you actually promised something else, especially if the first thing is better for them than the second (which, in this case, it is, $2,000 being more than $1,400), then if you only do the second, rather than the first, you're opening yourself up to losing the next election pretty hard. Holding all of Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, New Hampshire, and Nevada (plus picking off some of Florida, Iowa, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin) is a tall enough order already; being perceived to have broken a promise of $2,000 cheques only needlessly makes the task that much harder.

I also always understood the plan to be an additional $1,400 atop the $600 already approved. But I can also understand how, given Democratic messaging during the runoffs, a lot of people would think that the promise was for $2,000 on top of and separate from the $600, and given the close margins of victory, I think it's politically unwise for the Democrats to approve only $1,400, and not $2,000.

EDIT: There's another reason to introduce a clean bill (that is, with nothing else attached) for $2,000 cheques: a lot of Republicans have said they support that.

Unless reconciliation is used to push it through on a party-line vote in the Senate (and there are rules over what can go into a bill passed via reconciliation, and it's unlikely anything like that's going to get changed with Manchin and Sinema around), you need 60 votes to pass anything.

Putting extra stuff in such a bill would only give Republican Senators an excuse to vote against it.

With a clean bill, on the other hand, Schumer can just force every Republican in the Senate to say whether they're for or against giving $2,000 stimulus cheques to everyone. No excuses that there was something else they didn't like.

Marco Rubio, for instance, has voiced support for $2,000 cheques (https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahhansen/2021/01/13/gop-senator-marco-rubio-calls-for-2000-stimulus-checks-to-heal-divided-nation/?sh=4e31306a6c9c). So if there's a vote purely on that subject, Sen. Rubio either votes in favour, which is good because it's a vote for a good policy, or he votes against, in which case the Democratic Party has a ready-made attack ad when he's up for re-election in 2022. (Of course, if he's hit with a primary challenge, so would his opponents there.)

And it's popular even among people who vote solidly Republican: Joe Manchin was at first against $2,000 cheques (https://www.axios.com/manchin-stimulus-checks-senate-biden-9a22ee1d-b2cc-4c2f-8a24-836a66725beb.html), but then had to backtrack on it after voter backlash in West Virginia (https://theappeal.org/joe-manchins-voters-arent-letting-him-stop-2000-checks/).

There's really no reason for the Democratic Party, at this point, not to bring a bill for $2,000 stimulus cheques to the floor of both the House and the Senate.

EDIT #2: With Biden reportedly meeting with a group of Republican Senators looking to support a plan that would further water down even the $1,400 proposal, I would like to post a few snippets from The Federalist Papers pointing out why supermajority requirements for ordinary legislation are bad.

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed22.asp

Quote from: Alexander Hamilton
To give a minority a negative upon the majority (which is always the case where more than a majority is requisite to a decision), is, in its tendency, to subject the sense of the greater number to that of the lesser. Congress, from the nonattendance of a few States, have been frequently in the situation of a Polish diet, where a single VOTE has been sufficient to put a stop to all their movements. A sixtieth part of the Union, which is about the proportion of Delaware and Rhode Island, has several times been able to oppose an entire bar to its operations. This is one of those refinements which, in practice, has an effect the reverse of what is expected from it in theory. The necessity of unanimity in public bodies, or of something approaching towards it, has been founded upon a supposition that it would contribute to security. But its real operation is to embarrass the administration, to destroy the energy of the government, and to substitute the pleasure, caprice, or artifices of an insignificant, turbulent, or corrupt junto, to the regular deliberations and decisions of a respectable majority. In those emergencies of a nation, in which the goodness or badness, the weakness or strength of its government, is of the greatest importance, there is commonly a necessity for action. The public business must, in some way or other, go forward. If a pertinacious minority can control the opinion of a majority, respecting the best mode of conducting it, the majority, in order that something may be done, must conform to the views of the minority; and thus the sense of the smaller number will overrule that of the greater, and give a tone to the national proceedings. Hence, tedious delays; continual negotiation and intrigue; contemptible compromises of the public good. And yet, in such a system, it is even happy when such compromises can take place: for upon some occasions things will not admit of accommodation; and then the measures of government must be injuriously suspended, or fatally defeated. It is often, by the impracticability of obtaining the concurrence of the necessary number of votes, kept in a state of inaction. Its situation must always savor of weakness, sometimes border upon anarchy.

It is not difficult to discover, that a principle of this kind gives greater scope to foreign corruption, as well as to domestic faction, than that which permits the sense of the majority to decide; though the contrary of this has been presumed. The mistake has proceeded from not attending with due care to the mischiefs that may be occasioned by obstructing the progress of government at certain critical seasons. When the concurrence of a large number is required by the Constitution to the doing of any national act, we are apt to rest satisfied that all is safe, because nothing improper will be likely TO BE DONE, but we forget how much good may be prevented, and how much ill may be produced, by the power of hindering the doing what may be necessary, and of keeping affairs in the same unfavorable posture in which they may happen to stand at particular periods.

Suppose, for instance, we were engaged in a war, in conjunction with one foreign nation, against another. Suppose the necessity of our situation demanded peace, and the interest or ambition of our ally led him to seek the prosecution of the war, with views that might justify us in making separate terms. In such a state of things, this ally of ours would evidently find it much easier, by his bribes and intrigues, to tie up the hands of government from making peace, where two thirds of all the votes were requisite to that object, than where a simple majority would suffice. In the first case, he would have to corrupt a smaller number; in the last, a greater number. Upon the same principle, it would be much easier for a foreign power with which we were at war to perplex our councils and embarrass our exertions. And, in a commercial view, we may be subjected to similar inconveniences. A nation, with which we might have a treaty of commerce, could with much greater facility prevent our forming a connection with her competitor in trade, though such a connection should be ever so beneficial to ourselves.

Evils of this description ought not to be regarded as imaginary. One of the weak sides of republics, among their numerous advantages, is that they afford too easy an inlet to foreign corruption. An hereditary monarch, though often disposed to sacrifice his subjects to his ambition, has so great a personal interest in the government and in the external glory of the nation, that it is not easy for a foreign power to give him an equivalent for what he would sacrifice by treachery to the state. The world has accordingly been witness to few examples of this species of royal prostitution, though there have been abundant specimens of every other kind.

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed58.asp

Quote from: James Madison
As connected with the objection against the number of representatives, may properly be here noticed, that which has been suggested against the number made competent for legislative business. It has been said that more than a majority ought to have been required for a quorum; and in particular cases, if not in all, more than a majority of a quorum for a decision. That some advantages might have resulted from such a precaution, cannot be denied. It might have been an additional shield to some particular interests, and another obstacle generally to hasty and partial measures. But these considerations are outweighed by the inconveniences in the opposite scale.

In all cases where justice or the general good might require new laws to be passed, or active measures to be pursued, the fundamental principle of free government would be reversed. It would be no longer the majority that would rule: the power would be transferred to the minority. Were the defensive privilege limited to particular cases, an interested minority might take advantage of it to screen themselves from equitable sacrifices to the general weal, or, in particular emergencies, to extort unreasonable indulgences. Lastly, it would facilitate and foster the baneful practice of secessions; a practice which has shown itself even in States where a majority only is required; a practice subversive of all the principles of order and regular government; a practice which leads more directly to public convulsions, and the ruin of popular governments, than any other which has yet been displayed among us.

The people who wrote the US Constitution and its most ardent defence would kill the filibuster.

EDIT #3:

Quote from: Joe Biden
By electing Jon and the Reverend, you can make an immediate difference in your own lives, the lives of the people all across this country, because their election will put an end to the block in Washington on that two-thousand-dollar stimulus check, that money that will go out the door immediately to help people who are in real trouble.

More and more I can understand why people are pissed off that a) the cheques are planned to be $1,400, not $2,000 and b) the cheques have not yet gone out even though it's been a week and a half since Sens. Warnock and Ossoff were sworn in.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: dpareja on February 03, 2021, 02:37:32 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EtUwUYTXUAExu8F?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: Id82 on February 03, 2021, 07:22:25 pm
Not just socialist but communist.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: dpareja on February 04, 2021, 11:05:26 pm
https://www.theonion.com/republicans-accuse-ocasio-cortez-of-not-being-anywhere-1846200281?utm_campaign=TheOnion&utm_content=1612473544&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_source=twitter
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: Cloud3514 on February 05, 2021, 03:57:48 pm
Didn't know The Onion was reporting actual news now.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: davedan on February 08, 2021, 05:05:03 pm
The onion has been pretty straight for a while now. We have entered an era when parody is dead, it simply can't keep pace with the clown party.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: dpareja on February 26, 2021, 02:01:23 pm
Abandoning $2,000 cheques (and waffling on $1,400).

Thinking people care what the Senate Parliamentarian says about what can and can't be done under reconciliation.

Bombing Syria.

The Democrats are, once again, setting themselves up to lose in 2022--and this time they don't have a 9-seat buffer in the Senate to at least keep that body.

Listen to Madison and Hamilton, kill the filibuster, get a UBI, single-payer, minimum wage increase, and sweep the Republicans from power for a generation--or take corporate donor money and wonder why you lose.

I bet I know which will happen.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: niam2023 on February 26, 2021, 09:01:57 pm
As opposed to letting Assad go - which happens to align PERFECTLY with the dictator cheerleader's goals.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: dpareja on February 26, 2021, 09:20:17 pm
As opposed to letting Assad go - which happens to align PERFECTLY with the dictator cheerleader's goals.

Because the US has such a wonderful record when it comes to what happens in the aftermath of their toppling dictators.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: Skybison on February 27, 2021, 01:19:24 pm
https://twitter.com/Jim_Jordan/status/1365326482160185344

Rep. Jim Jordan has a question for you all:

"Instead of spending 1.9 trillion dollars, why don't we:

-Go back to work
-Go back to school
-Go back to normal"

I'll bet none of you can answer that! It's not like there's a plague or something going on...
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: dpareja on February 27, 2021, 04:20:44 pm
I love how the "pro-life" party has exposed itself as the "pro-working-yourself-literally-to-death" party.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: niam2023 on February 27, 2021, 08:34:48 pm
https://twitter.com/Jim_Jordan/status/1365326482160185344

Rep. Jim Jordan has a question for you all:

"Instead of spending 1.9 trillion dollars, why don't we:

-Go back to work
-Go back to school
-Go back to normal"

I'll bet none of you can answer that! It's not like there's a plague or something going on...

Instead of listening to Jim Jordan, how about we:

listen to the young athletes Jim Jordan let get molested.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: ironbite on February 27, 2021, 11:32:44 pm
https://twitter.com/Jim_Jordan/status/1365326482160185344

Rep. Jim Jordan has a question for you all:

"Instead of spending 1.9 trillion dollars, why don't we:

-Go back to work
-Go back to school
-Go back to normal"

I'll bet none of you can answer that! It's not like there's a plague or something going on...

Instead of listening to Jim Jordan, how about we:

listen to the young athletes Jim Jordan let get molested.

Instead of listening to the young athletes Jim Jordan let get molested how about we:

Listen to the sound of Jim Jordan's screams as each young man gets him alone in a room with a baseball bat for five minutes?
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: dpareja on March 01, 2021, 09:32:48 pm
When the Senate Parliamentarian says that Republicans can't enact their policies (2001, Bush tax cuts): Trent Lott fires the Senate Parliamentarian and finds one who says that they can.

When the Senate Parliamentarian says that Democrats can't enact their policies (2021, minimum wage increase): Chuck Schumer does nothing, Joe Biden issues a toothless statement expressing his disagreement, and Kamala Harris says she won't override the Parliamentarian's advice.

If Democratic Senators wanted to increase the minimum wage, they could. That they aren't doing so means that enough of them don't want to, despite its high approval among the public.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: Sigmaleph on March 02, 2021, 05:24:10 pm
When the Senate Parliamentarian says that Republicans can't enact their policies (2001, Bush tax cuts): Trent Lott fires the Senate Parliamentarian and finds one who says that they can.

When the Senate Parliamentarian says that Democrats can't enact their policies (2021, minimum wage increase): Chuck Schumer does nothing, Joe Biden issues a toothless statement expressing his disagreement, and Kamala Harris says she won't override the Parliamentarian's advice.

If Democratic Senators wanted to increase the minimum wage, they could. That they aren't doing so means that enough of them don't want to, despite its high approval among the public.

Do you think the parliamentarian is wrong about procedure, or do you think she is right about procedure and should be ignored anyway?
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: dpareja on March 02, 2021, 09:22:29 pm
When the Senate Parliamentarian says that Republicans can't enact their policies (2001, Bush tax cuts): Trent Lott fires the Senate Parliamentarian and finds one who says that they can.

When the Senate Parliamentarian says that Democrats can't enact their policies (2021, minimum wage increase): Chuck Schumer does nothing, Joe Biden issues a toothless statement expressing his disagreement, and Kamala Harris says she won't override the Parliamentarian's advice.

If Democratic Senators wanted to increase the minimum wage, they could. That they aren't doing so means that enough of them don't want to, despite its high approval among the public.

Do you think the parliamentarian is wrong about procedure, or do you think she is right about procedure and should be ignored anyway?

I honestly do not know. I have not looked enough at the issue to know whether the policy proposed fits within the rules of budget reconciliation. I do know that Sanders, as chair of the Senate Budget Committee, requested a study of the matter (whether from the CBO or the OMB, not sure) to illustrate that raising the minimum wage impacts the federal budget.

What I do know, however, is that all this would be avoided if Senators actually cared about the arguments Hamilton and Madison made about why supermajority requirements for ordinary legislation are bad.

And I also know that the general public won't give two shits about what the Parliamentarian said and will punish the Democratic Party for not raising wages when they said they would and had control of the House of Representatives, the Senate and the Presidency.

EDIT: That is, whether or not the Senate Parliamentarian is right about procedure is irrelevant, because the procedure shouldn't need to exist in the first place, and it's bad politics anyway.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: Kanzenkankaku on March 07, 2021, 01:41:45 am
https://twitter.com/Jim_Jordan/status/1365326482160185344

Rep. Jim Jordan has a question for you all:

"Instead of spending 1.9 trillion dollars, why don't we:

-Go back to work
-Go back to school
-Go back to normal"

I'll bet none of you can answer that! It's not like there's a plague or something going on...

Instead of listening to Jim Jordan, how about we:

listen to the young athletes Jim Jordan let get molested.

Instead of listening to the young athletes Jim Jordan let get molested how about we:

Listen to the sound of Jim Jordan's screams as each young man gets him alone in a room with a baseball bat for five minutes?

Love the sound of some broken kneecaps in the morning.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: dpareja on March 09, 2021, 03:39:10 pm
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/542337-nevada-democratic-party-staff-quit-after-sanders-backers-take-over

A slate of candidates supported by Democratic Socialists of America, led by the head of Nevada's delegation to the Democratic National Convention in 2020, Judith Whitmer, a supporter of Sen. Bernie Sanders, won most of the seats in the Nevada Democratic Party's leadership. Whitmer, the head of the Clark County Democratic Party, defeated Tick Segerblom, Clark County Commissioner, who had been urged to run by Sen. Catherine Cortez Masto (D-NV).

After this, the entire staff of the state party quit, and most of its funds--roughly $450,000 of about $520,000--were transferred from the state party to the DSCC*. (Sen. Cortez Masto is facing re-election in 2022.)

*EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HPkHiKiYd0
https://theintercept.com/2021/03/08/nevada-democratic-party-dsa/

According to reporting from The Intercept, the funds were transferred before voting for the party leadership took place; however, the staff quit after the DSA-backed slate took most of the seats.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: niam2023 on March 09, 2021, 08:37:32 pm
(according to reporting by The Intercept)

Ahh, Glenn Greenwald's illustrious collection of assholes.

And even THEY found him a smidge too odious.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: dpareja on March 09, 2021, 09:43:49 pm
Ah yes, because anyone who challenges the Red Tory status quo of DC politics is an "odious asshole".
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: niam2023 on March 09, 2021, 11:19:41 pm
Let's not forget the apologism of Glenn Greenwald for the literal capitol hill rioters, deeming anyone who was fighting against them the "real authoritarians". Let alone him deeming the Russia Investigation to be nothing but conspiracy theories - and his flattering glow up pieces of what Trump supposedly represents.

Or that time he zealously defended a murderous white supremacist and wiretapped his eyewitnesses.

He's a disruptive nutbar who doesn't care what he needs to back just so long as the institutions he hates get disrupted.

Fuck Glenn Greenwald - he is the asshole's asshole. He is such an asshole that every single jerk and ass within six miles of him spontaneously gets new ideas for methods of punting puppies.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: DarkPhoenix on March 11, 2021, 08:52:53 am
https://twitter.com/Josiah_Walrus/status/1367389564847804419
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: dpareja on March 11, 2021, 12:59:48 pm
https://twitter.com/Josiah_Walrus/status/1367389564847804419

I have to wonder if this person on Twitter actually read the article or just went by the headlines.

I disagree with Greenwald's calling people like Tucker Carlson and Steve Bannon socialists, but he's not wrong in pointing out that there have been cases recently where figures both on the right and on the left have found themselves on the same side of certain issues, like Amazon opening a headquarters in New York.

Different ideologies can come to the same conclusion.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: niam2023 on March 11, 2021, 11:45:21 pm
Gotta say man you're really reaching to try and justify your unabashed idolation of this guy.

Also, completely ignoring my point that he literally called the people fighting the capitol hill insurrectionists "the real authoritarians".

He's a man who provides cover for any "third positionist", even including when that third position is Nazis. Let's not forget his crying over identity politics. And that time that Andrew Anglin commented in the affirmative about Greenwald, and approved of him. If you're being given the approval of a Nazi, chances are you're not doing something good.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: dpareja on March 12, 2021, 05:07:14 pm
Who said anything about "unabashed idolation"?

I think Greenwald was at best misguided in what he said positively about Trump, ignoring that it was, largely, purely rhetorical even as Trump's administration not only maintained but in some ways exacerbated precisely many of the things that Greenwald hates.

I'd have to see his "real authoritarians" remark in context, but if it's referring to the actions taken after the fact, look at the wake of the September 11, 2001 attacks: indefinite war and a massive expansion of the surveillance state via the PATRIOT Act. If that is not an authoritarian response, I don't know what is. It's justifiable to feel concern about what acts might be, or have been, taken after the January 6, 2021 attack on Capitol Hill, and how they could further curtail civil liberties. (Not to mention corporate authoritarianism, which in some ways has in fact made it harder for law enforcement to track extremist groups, thus being counterproductive to the goal of stopping such attacks in future.)

I'd like to know your definition of identity politics, because what I've often seen it used for is covering for people with terrible views (putting someone who wanted to cut Social Security in charge of the Office of Management and Budget, or putting someone with massive conflicts of interest involving the financial sector in charge of the Treasury Department, or putting someone who had just received a large severance payment from a defence contractor in charge of the Department of Defense) simply because they are a woman/a racial minority/a sexual minority (or what have you), and thus declaring any criticism of them, even if entirely based on the very real problems with their views and past actions, illegitimate and necessarily motivated by sexism, racism, homophobia, or the like.

As for Andrew Anglin praising Greenwald, Tucker Carlson has praised Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (https://www.newsweek.com/fox-news-tucker-carlson-praises-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-bernie-sanders-work-1422926) for some of her legislative initiatives. Does that mean that AOC is doing something wrong? It's possible for people with radically different ideologies to come to the same conclusion on certain issues. (Merely by way of example of such, there was an image posted on these forums some years ago in which a Social Justice Warrior and a Neo-Nazi agreed on the topic of racial segregation.)
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: niam2023 on March 13, 2021, 03:24:15 am
Tucker Carlson is one thing. He's an American newsman / propaganda agent. He's had his advertisers yanked and seen them run away from him. Andrew Anglin is an entirely different beast from Tucker. Anglin has gotten his hands dirty before, actively led harassment campaigns, and threatened people, as well as possibly contributing to mass shooter scenarios.

It's pretty obvious Greenwald spends more of his time attacking people who aren't in the segment of the left he likes than spent going after Trump and his insurgent right. In part, because he likes insurgents and third position people. Even when they're literal fascists.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/lrc-blog/glenn-greenwald-violence-in-the-capitol-dangers-in-the-aftermath/ Here we have Lew Rockwell boosting that account Greenwald had made. I do not think making consequences for a literal fascist uprising is going to cause Patriot Act II Electric Boogaloo.

I think you know well enough what I mean by identity politics - it's the biggest boogeyman either by the right wing OR by class reductionists.

https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-us-inability-to-count-votes-is He also fueled Trump's sewing of distrust in the vote.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: dpareja on March 13, 2021, 03:54:20 am
Again, people with radically different ideologies can come to the same conclusions.

As for the aftermath of the Capitol Hill riots, you are aware that it's been proposed to make the fencing around the Capitol permanent, and that the National Guard deployment is being regularly extended, now, I believe, at least through some time in May? (In addition to the corporate authoritarianism I pointed out.)

Actually, I don't know what you mean. Because what I see is that when someone raises a legitimate concern about, say, how Neera Tanden wanted to cut Social Security (https://jacobinmag.com/2020/11/joe-biden-neera-tanden-social-security-omb) or steal Libya's oil (https://thegrayzone.com/2020/11/30/trump-neera-tanden-libya-oil/?link_id=2&can_id=0e9c68c5b3095f0fdca05cf3f9a58935&source=email-top-10-ways-neera-tanden-has-been-misunderstood-2&email_referrer=email_1017970&email_subject=top-10-ways-neera-tanden-has-been-misunderstood), they were often met not with anything addressing those substantive concerns but rather with a reminder that she would be the  first Indian-American (maybe even Asian-American) to head the OMB.

Or when people raised questions about Janet Yellen having given paid speeches at Citadel (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/01/janet-yellen-paid-speeches-citadel-gamestop.html) and thus whether she could be impartial in the Robinhood investigation (never mind that her ethics agreement required her to recuse herself from such deliberations), Jen Psaki said, essentially, she deserved that money and how dare you criticize the first female Treasury Secretary.

The same was said regarding Hillary Clinton in 2016, of course; countless reminders that she would be the first female President if elected. (Going by that logic, of course, if it's so important to have a woman in a role like that, all of those people should have voted Republican in 2008 so that Sarah Palin could be the first female Vice President.)

As for distrusting the vote count, Greenwald's not wrong to document just how incredibly rickety the entire US electoral process is. A good journalist reports the facts, no matter who those facts might favour.

As for the "left", just going to say, the bulk of Democratic leadership in the US would probably fit ideologically into a party like Germany's Free Democrats (fiscally conservative but socially liberal). Which not too long ago saw one of its members elected Minister-President of Thuringia with the support of AfD members of the Landtag. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Thuringian_government_crisis) Saying that they're on the "left" is a reflection of how skewed the US's Overton Window is, not an accurate reflection of their political views compared to actual leftist politicians.

EDIT:

Quote
They're putting that stimulus check on the back burner, they're putting the minimum wage hike on the back burner, and they're dropping bombs on Syria right now, and those bombs are kind of expensive for a dude who owes me two thousand dollars.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: niam2023 on March 13, 2021, 11:34:06 pm
...Of course, it all goes right back around to the raging hateboner STILL going strong for Hillary Clinton. And I'm guessing the "rickety electoral system" comes down ultimately to the system not electing your TRUE PROGRESSIVE MESSIAH twice in a row now.

And yet again some more "most Democrats are NOT TRUE LEFT" wank from you.

Yeah, I don't really take your "corporate authoritarianism" complaints very seriously. Let alone the complaints about the fencing and national guard deployment when QAnon and white nationalists have indicated they want to do so again, and numerous lone wolves have tried to make similar attacks.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: dpareja on March 14, 2021, 04:24:24 pm
No, the "rickety electoral system" goes down to a lack of standards for what sorts of systems are used in elections, and the fact that they're run by partisan officials, and the fact that rules over access to the ballot for both voters and candidates can be readily manipulated to partisan ends, and how long it takes to count votes, and so on.

And yes, many elected Democrats, including most in leadership positions, are not left-wing. They would not fit into left-wing parties in most other democracies. They are, by and large, Red Tories. (Way back in 2004, I noted that John Kerry would make a great leader of the Conservative Party of Canada.) As for Hillary Clinton, can you not see when I'm using her as an example of how identity is used to try to override policy concerns, such as her vote to authorize the invasion of Iraq? Is that nuance beyond you?

As for "corporate authoritarianism", that's what happens when private companies are allowed to control what has become the de facto public square--they decide what is and is not permissible speech.

EDIT: I reread Dr. King's "Letter from a Birmingham Jail"  (https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html)recently. It's really chilling how many of his points, especially about moderates preferring "order" to justice, "a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice", and such, still resonate today, and not merely in the context of race relations.

Quote
Of all the forms of inequality, injustice in health care is the most shocking and inhumane.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: niam2023 on March 14, 2021, 04:40:03 pm
The social media companies don't enforce their rules, and people complain they're letting the right get away with all of its shit. They do enforce their rules, and they get people like you and Greenwald conveniently agreeing with the "dissident" alt-right that this is corporate authoritarianism. So no, I don't really take this very seriously. I'm actually hoping they ban your asshole in chief from Twitter too.

Oh I am sure you folks have nothing against women, just THIS specific woman and that specific woman and this specific woman and that specific woman.

So more or less more weasel words from you about how it MUST be partisan officials "rigging" the election against the great messiah. Just not outright saying it.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: dpareja on March 14, 2021, 05:39:33 pm
Sanders lost because of Sanders. He did not do--reportedly would not do--what he had to do in order to maximise his chances of winning.

As for having anything against women, have you seen, let's say, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, or Ilhan Omar, or Rashida Tlaib, or Ayanna Pressley, or Pramila Jayapal, or Barbara Lee (the only person brave enough to vote against the 2001 AUMF), or Nina Turner? Yes, it is those specific people, and it is because of policy concerns. (If you want to see how silly your position is, it's as silly as insinuating that your opposition to Sanders is rooted in secret anti-Semitism.)

And the problem with social media companies is that their rules are too vague and overbroad and get applied not only against the alt-right but other groups as well (and yes, I know you also hate many of the ones on the left that have been removed), at whim without consistency. Twitter, Facebook, and the like are the de facto public square and should be regulated as such, with free speech protections applying there. The answer to bad speech is not to silence it, but to point out how silly it is with better speech and stop it from gaining traction.

EDIT: To reiterate: It is possible for people with radically different ideologies to come to the same conclusion on certain issues while strongly disagreeing on other issues.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: niam2023 on March 14, 2021, 09:46:25 pm
If the Chapo Trap House dickbags got their social media yanked, then good riddance to bad rubbish. The dirtbag left's homophobia ("the gayest thing about him is that he looks like a toy poodle lol") isn't any better than when the alt-right does it. The rules are very clear, and the people who got banned got banned because they violated the rules. I would utterly disagree with you about FREEZE PEACH. As we saw from the complete deplatforming of Milo Yiannopolous it completely destroyed him, to the extent barely anyone cared when he attempted to resurface.

I wouldn't make the point of the misogyny issue if it wasn't for spamming Liz Warren with snake emojis, treating AOC like a traitor for not backing Bernie more...
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: dpareja on March 14, 2021, 09:57:00 pm
Quote
Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

Also, it must be nice having views that are entirely in line with what is deemed acceptable by Silicon Valley corporate oligarchs and the politicians and journalists who put pressure on them to censor opposing viewpoints.

EDIT: Pro-Palestine groups get taken down all the time. (https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/fb-stop-censoring-palestine/)
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: DarkPhoenix on March 17, 2021, 10:51:13 am
Glenn Greenwald is NOT a leftist.  He just plays one when he finds the position convinient.  What Glenn Greenwald is, is anti-Western World.  Which is why he's so quick to defend people like Vlad Putin, who are absolute evil, but are fight the "true villains" of the Western World.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: dpareja on March 19, 2021, 07:51:47 pm
On the topic of "Republicans are lolcows":

https://www.braun.senate.gov/braun-introduces-fix-stop-democrats-banning-state-tax-cuts

Sen. Braun has introduced a bill to repeal a provision of the recent bailout package that bars state governments from cutting taxes. (Specifically, if a state changes its taxation structure in a way that leads to a net revenue loss, that state must then pay an amount to the federal government equal to the amount of tax revenue lost, effectively doubling the revenue loss from any tax cut.)

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/543559-republican-attorneys-general-threaten-action-on-stimulus

Also, Republican-controlled states are considering suing the federal government over the provision.
Title: Re: President Joe Biden's massive clean up effort
Post by: niam2023 on March 21, 2021, 01:30:23 pm
Glenn Greenwald is NOT a leftist.  He just plays one when he finds the position convinient.  What Glenn Greenwald is, is anti-Western World.  Which is why he's so quick to defend people like Vlad Putin, who are absolute evil, but are fight the "true villains" of the Western World.

Yeah, exactly what I noticed about him - he's exactly the kind of person to back anyone who tears down the west and through malice or incompetence enables Russia and China.