Author Topic: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.  (Read 13882 times)

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Offline TheL

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The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« on: December 18, 2012, 03:32:15 pm »
There's an unsettling trend of depictions of women Getting Sexier in ways that are objectifying and sometimes just plain creepy.  It's not that there are suddenly all these sexual libertines out there, or that Women Are Getting More Naked, More Often--it's just...we're being portrayed less like people and more like sex toys on display.  "Yessir, boys, that right there is a grade-A Pussy-Containing Device with D-cup breasts and built-in suction!"

Just for an example, I'm going to use the book Powers That Be, by Anne McCaffrey.  (Yes, I know.  I'm totally high on Anne McCaffrey lately.  Just go with it.)  There are a few minor spoilers, but the book was published in 1993, and I've deliberately left out The Big Reveal, so you're just going to have to Deal With It.



This, as far as I can tell, is the original cover image, sans cover.  There's an uncomfortable amount of Yellow Spandex, but this was the early 90's, and Yana complains in-book about how horribly ill-suited for Petaybean weather a lot of Intergal's clothing and supplies are, so I can deal.  (This is apparently a pet peeve of women on ice planets: Magda Lorne and Jaelle n'ha Mellora of Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover series have a similar complaint regarding Terran Federation uniforms.)  Besides, this artist, unlike 90% of the comic-book industry, understands that Spandex Is Not Body Paint.

I get the odd feeling that the rock pools in the foreground were drawn before Yana's legs were, and either Yana or the artist is sort of tucking the leg to one side to make it fit.  Overall, however, it's a very good painting.  There's enough oddness in the background to draw you in and start reading, but not enough that you're distracted from the character.  Yanaba Maddock looks like the 30-something, half-Navajo that she is (this becomes relevant later in the post), and her strong personality definitely shines through in her expression.  This cover definitely gives a good impression of What The Book Is About, and yes, it's just a wee bit sexy, what with the tight clothing and all.  Sexy, in and of itself, isn't bad.  It's how you do sexy that's important.



Another cover image.  I'm not sure where this fits, chronologically, but it doesn't appear to be a very common one.  Google Image Search turned up far more results for the other two.  This is probably an early paperback-edition cover, maybe mid-90's or so.  It certainly doesn't look much later than the late 90's in style.

This fails the Male Gaze argument, but that's probably one of the reasons it wasn't used as the cover for very long.  There is one person here, and we can't be certain who it is. The character is facing away from us, riding into the Petaybean wilderness.  Points for being interesting, but let's face it, this doesn't draw us in as much as an actual face, smiling or screaming or beckoning.  We may want to follow this person, but we need more of a reason to peek inside this book or pick it up off the shelf.  Sexy Yana did a much better job of that. 



And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the 2005 cover image, which was on a copy of the book that I recently purchased secondhand because I knew I would want to re-read it to death.  (I originally checked it out from the library, with the original Sexy-Yana cover image.  I had a thing for books about strong women, because I wanted to be strong too.)

I like the confused swirls of color--Petaybee's unusual nature is kept hidden from off-world characters and the reader until well into the novel, and the confusion that results is very well-represented by those vivid purples and greens.  The wintry scene at the top is nice too, and I like the curly-coat head, though it looks at first like it's a whole creature running with Yana, not a giant disembodied head.

Yes, folks, that really is supposed to be the same character that was depicted in the first cover image.  A combat veteran with a no-nonsense attitude, a Navajo bloodline, and a deep desire to Get To The Bottom Of Things Before More People Get Hurt.  No, really, come on.  That girl looks about 15, and has no more Native American blood in her than I do.  I have to give props to the artist for remembering that Aisling made that awesome blue latchkay shirt (seriously, the artist actually read the book), but it wouldn't be hanging off like that.  Yana must be freezing her tits off.  Also, I'm not sure why her leg is bent quite that far, or why she's not wearing a bra, or why she's still skeletal at a point in the story where it says she's pretty much fully-recovered.

But notice something else.  Yana isn't looking at the viewer at all.  She's got sort of a pleading expression, as if she's hoping for someone to come rescue her.  And we can see a good bit of her left breast.  Combine that with her out-of-canon youthfulness and painfully-thin frame, and you've got a very ugly implication there.  I'm not saying that the artist is deliberately playing on stereotypical "traditional" male desires to rescue or rape a young woman.  But Yana looks very weak and powerless in this image, an impression that the original cover and the book itself DON'T give of her at all.

This is a problem, y'all.  When women are portrayed as powerless Slabs O' Meat, deliberately or otherwise, that message gets internalized by girls.  Don't be strong, or boys won't like you.  Be pretty, or boys won't like you.  Act helpless and sexy, or boys won't like you.  And if boys don't like you, or you don't like boys, you're worthless.  The messages internalized by boys are just as bad, if not worse: Women are there to look pretty and to sell things to men.  Women have no agency or feelings of their own and only have to do what you want.  Women who don't look, act, and dress sexy all the time aren't worthy of your attention.  You should go out and have sex with lots of beautiful women, because that is the best thing you can do, and if you don't want to have sex with women that look just like this, then you're worthless.


Well.  That got very rant-y, very quickly.  To get things back on topic, does anybody have other examples of female characters or book covers who are genuinely empowered at first, then get more and more objectified over time?
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 03:47:25 pm by TheL »
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Offline Captain Jack Harkness

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2012, 03:43:03 pm »
You want to know what I think?  I think that you're reading way too much into that cover.  Other than the shirt being off of her shoulder on the far side, I didn't read ANY of the things you mentioned about the new cover.  Hell, I'd go so far to say as the whole shirt thing isn't even really noticeable unless you're paying attention to detail.

Granted, I've never read the book, so she might be wearing inappropriate attire (especially if the other covers are anything to go by).  That's about the only thing I could really read into it, and that's being generous.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 03:46:03 pm by B-Man »
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Offline Rabbit of Caerbannog

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2012, 03:50:19 pm »
I see this more in things such as comics. For example, Catwoman #0 or the Avengers movie poster.

This does not take into account non-artistic examples of sexism in the comic community.

Offline TheL

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2012, 03:54:27 pm »
I may be reading too much into it, but on the other hand, teenagers today are saying things that disturb me about the role of women in society.  (Yes, I know, I'm becoming an old crank at 27.)  There is this expectation by teenage boys nowadays that ALL young women must have a 24" waist, that ALL young women must have a perfect face with no blemishes, that ALL young women must look exactly like Photoshopped pictures in magazines and porn.  Admittedly, there were idiots who thought such depictions of women were accurate 10 or 15 years ago, but it didn't seem to be nearly as ubiquitous as it is now.  And 15 years ago, people weren't calling size-2 women "fat cows" and being agreed with.  There are too many of them for it to just be an army of trolls.

These crazy ideas have to be coming from somewhere.  You don't just wake up one morning and say, "hey, I think I'll treat people this way instead of that way."  The way you are treated, and the way you see other people treating each other, and the way people are depicted on the covers of books and magazines, affect the way you treat other people as a teenager and an adult.
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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2012, 04:18:52 pm »
Admittedly, there were idiots who thought such depictions of women were accurate 10 or 15 years ago, but it didn't seem to be nearly as ubiquitous as it is now.  And 15 years ago, people weren't calling size-2 women "fat cows" and being agreed with.  There are too many of them for it to just be an army of trolls.
They did, assuming the they is the same group I think you're talking about. Well, groups, one being the group that uses women to amuse themselves and the other being the group that couldn't keep a woman's attention if they attached a neon sign to themselves. I say this having known plenty of them growing up.

I don't know how many guys you hung out with 10-15 years ago, but I bounced at least one off a drink machine for trashing his 'fat' girlfriend who happened to be one of the cutest girls in the school. She was drinking soda 'again', it must be what made her fat he said. He did it entirely because it got to her, worked on insecurities and made sure she wouldn't go after better. Given the rise of the utter pansy in the last few years I could see this having become a more common tactic, but it was hardly new even then.

Offline Captain Jack Harkness

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2012, 05:00:53 pm »
Well, I'm not sure if it's about the increased "sexifyiing" of women, but Women Logic is a particularly irritating meme filled with a crapton of strawman arguements and stereotypes.  Memes like this and "Go make me a sandwich." - which I've never really found to be "funny" might be a good part of the problem.

Also, there's the Rule 63 gallery on KYM.  Just look at all that overtly sexual stuff.  I mean, I love porn/erotica, but I'm pretty damned sure that gallery's goal isn't to be erotic.

I mean, Jesus Fucking Christ!  They can't even do a Rule 63 pic of Bob Ross without stripping her down to a bra and panties!  Hm...maybe that's a bikini.  Not that it really matters.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 05:13:23 pm by B-Man »
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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2012, 05:04:03 pm »
Well, I'm not sure if it's about the increased "sexifyiing" of women, but Women Logic is a particularly irritating meme filled with a crapton of strawman arguements and stereotypes.
I hate bigoted memes so much. They're stupid, unrelatable, and never, ever funny.

Offline Auggziliary

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2012, 05:17:42 pm »
Another meme is friendzoning. Being nice to girl doesn't mean she's obligated to go out with you or have sex with you. That's a really sad thing to think. Honestly if a guy expected me to have sex with simply because he's nice to be, he's treating me worse than a prostitute. When prostitutes get paid, money is money, they aren't pretending to pay you just for sex.

Also, I hate it when men(and sometimes women) complain about women complaining. Or about how "all women care about in a guy is money, a nice car, and a big d*ck". That has nothing to do with gender! There are men who leave their awesome girlfriend because her breasts weren't big enough, or she gained weight. Douche-baggery knows no genders.
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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2012, 06:03:13 pm »
Another meme is friendzoning. Being nice to girl doesn't mean she's obligated to go out with you or have sex with you. That's a really sad thing to think. Honestly if a guy expected me to have sex with simply because he's nice to be, he's treating me worse than a prostitute. When prostitutes get paid, money is money, they aren't pretending to pay you just for sex.
I've noticed this among disgruntled MRAs. They tend to bleat about how they are such "nice guys" to women, yet women only want to date "thugs" and "bad boys". Then they go on to spout garbage that's more misogynist than anything a "bad boy" could ever conceive of, while feeling entitled to sex for treating women like, I dunno, actual people. Reminds me of the Chris Rock skit where he talked about people who brag about "doing shit they're supposed to do".

Offline largeham

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2012, 06:39:43 pm »
In terms of the book cover, while I get the exposure of her breasts and whatnot, part of it could simply be the fact that the illustrator probably never read the book.

However, in general I agree. Luckily, it seems that 'friendzoning' is slowly disappearing from the internet, or at least in my experience.

Also, there's the Rule 63 gallery on KYM.  Just look at all that overtly sexual stuff.  I mean, I love porn/erotica, but I'm pretty damned sure that gallery's goal isn't to be erotic.

I mean, Jesus Fucking Christ!  They can't even do a Rule 63 pic of Bob Ross without stripping her down to a bra and panties!  Hm...maybe that's a bikini.  Not that it really matters.

I guess some people can't tell if a character is female unless she is in a sexy pose and/or in underwear.

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2012, 06:55:17 pm »
Speaking as someone that had the PTB trilogy, L? With the original covers? I never cared.  I figured it was just McCaffrey being McCaffrey.
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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2012, 07:08:05 pm »
Anyone else on here a fan of Escher Girls?
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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2012, 07:32:34 pm »
Anyone else on here a fan of Escher Girls?

That immediately came to mind when I saw the thread title.

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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2012, 07:55:25 pm »
Anyone else on here a fan of Escher Girls?

That immediately came to mind when I saw the thread title.

One of their redraws that really stood out to me was one where a woman was kicking a guy. The anatomy was so distorted that redrawing based on the position of leg, head, arms, upper torso, and lower torso all yielded different results.
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Re: The increasing popularity of The Male Gaze.
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2012, 08:34:11 pm »
About the covers, as a male, I find the first cover 100x more alluring than the second one. Partially to do with size, partially to do with the clarity of her form, and mostly to do with the fact that I enjoy a woman with that has a lot more behind her.

Honestly, I've never understood the obsession with reducing women down or the fact that treating them like people entitles you to sex. Though I'm one of those people who finds someone who is interesting way sexier than someone who is just a mindless idiot with good form.

I don't think it's getting worse either though. I used to spot this kind of stuff a lot more earlier in life than I have latter in life despite the fact I'm far more vigilant about it now.
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