"While the SMU students involved surely failed to grasp the severity of what they were doing and saying, this very fact highlights the need to speak out about sexism when we see it."
Once away from mommy and daddy...apparently a lot of collage guys turn into rapists.They've been raised in a testosterone-overdosed culture that places "being a man" on a pedestal, which leads them to try to be more of "a man" than all the men around them, and conform to the bro-culture. Additionally, many of them are raised this way, often times because their fathers were too. Television and popular culture fosters the "women as objects" mindset as well. Because of these factors, they believe that this kind of treatment of women is acceptable, because to a large section of society, it is, and they are praised for being like this.
Ironbite-seriously...the fuck is wrong with them?
Quote"While the SMU students involved surely failed to grasp the severity of what they were doing and saying, this very fact highlights the need to speak out about sexism when we see it."
Dear, that's not just sexism. That's advocating rape of minors.
Quote"While the SMU students involved surely failed to grasp the severity of what they were doing and saying, this very fact highlights the need to speak out about sexism when we see it."
Dear, that's not just sexism. That's advocating rape of minors.
Sadly, this seems par for the course in any Catholic institution nowadays.
I'm confused. How does a secular institution carry a name specific to religion?Quote"While the SMU students involved surely failed to grasp the severity of what they were doing and saying, this very fact highlights the need to speak out about sexism when we see it."
Dear, that's not just sexism. That's advocating rape of minors.
Sadly, this seems par for the course in any Catholic institution nowadays.
Saint Mary's is a public institution with no religious affiliation.
I'm confused. How does a secular institution carry a name specific to religion?Quote"While the SMU students involved surely failed to grasp the severity of what they were doing and saying, this very fact highlights the need to speak out about sexism when we see it."
Dear, that's not just sexism. That's advocating rape of minors.
Sadly, this seems par for the course in any Catholic institution nowadays.
Saint Mary's is a public institution with no religious affiliation.
Quote"While the SMU students involved surely failed to grasp the severity of what they were doing and saying, this very fact highlights the need to speak out about sexism when we see it."
Dear, that's not just sexism. That's advocating rape of minors.
Sadly, this seems par for the course in any Catholic institution nowadays.
Still, some students said they weren’t bothered by the cheer.
“We thought it was funny,” said Siobhan Evans. ”We were all just excited … I don’t regret it.”
“It wasn't a big deal to me. I’m not a feminist kind of person. It didn’t affect me personally,” said second-year psychology student Amanda Fougere.
Where are the humanists here? Not only females can be raped. Not all men are rapists or sex fiends at heart. Why don't you recognise, if females are the equal of males, that all humans have sex drive? LIke any other living organism, the major purpose of life is to procreate and survive. If you want to blame males and make generalisations, then you must also do the same for females.
Our society today still lives, in large part, on two faulty premises: women can do no crime (L. Arbour task force on women in trouble) and females have different needs. Until it is realised that everyone has different needs there will be discrimination and trouble for anyone not acting or resembling societal norms including ability or disability, skin color, facial character, hair, height, gender and so on.
Discrimination was important 10,000 years ago for physical survival. Our brains formed to then and biased views and resulting actions are expressed today when a person cannot control their thinking. Pardon my incorrect grammar but even our language has a problem expressing a non-gender idea. Humanists are working to discard gender based expression and behaviour.
Can the University dictate the morals of its students? What the students did showed no class, but so what? All sorts of nasty things go on that are not illegal. The University should distance itself from these actions, but beyond that they can do little. The students are (mostly) adults who are free to express their opinions.
I'm confused. How does a secular institution carry a name specific to religion?Quote"While the SMU students involved surely failed to grasp the severity of what they were doing and saying, this very fact highlights the need to speak out about sexism when we see it."
Dear, that's not just sexism. That's advocating rape of minors.
Sadly, this seems par for the course in any Catholic institution nowadays.
Saint Mary's is a public institution with no religious affiliation.
I don't know the specific history of St. Mary's in Halifax or whether or not it has any religious affiliation, but quite a few public facilities in Canada carry Catholic names because they were originally connected with the church. The Grey Nun's hospital in Edmonton, for instance, isn't specifically Catholic (as far as I know), yet carries the name because it traces its roots to the Grey Nuns of Montreal (again, as far as I know).
Keep in mind that Canada doesn't have the same barrier between church and state written into law like you do down in the US, so cosmetic signs of Christian origins in publicly funded areas aren't uncommon. Hell, we even have a publicly funded Catholic school system, which is separate from the regular schools (property owners are able to choose whether their taxes go to the secular or public system).
ETA: A little bit of Googling tells me that Saint Mary's is, in fact, not secular, though it accepts students of all faiths (according to the sites I found).
2. In this Act,
...
(i) “the Diocese” means the Roman Catholic Episcopal Corporation of Halifax.
(j) “the Visitor” means the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Halifax, or, where the Archbishop is incapacitated or the See is vacant, the person administering the affairs of the Diocese.
...
MEMBERSHIP
...
(2) No religious test shall be required of any officer, employee or student of the University, nor shall any such person be required to take part in any religious observances of any denomination.
...
5. The objects of the University are:
...
(b) to give special emphasis to the Christian tradition and values in higher education;
...
7. (1) The Board shall consist of the following Governors:
(a) the Chancellor, the Visitor, the President and Vice-Chancellor, and the Vice-Presidents;
(b) three appointed by the Diocese;
...
(f) one appointed by the Upper Canada Province of the Society of Jesus;
...
THE VISITOR
12A It is the role of the Visitor to provide counsel to the University as the Visitor deems appropriate.
I can't believe no one has ever complained before.I can. Having seen this kind of thing before, I can tell you that you can have people that enjoy chanting an offensive song without actually caring about the meaning of the song. I don't think that all those who chant that are potential rapists (and I'm pretty sure a fair part would be horrified once confronted to rape), they just like the song because it's offensive, and because offensive humour is pleasing to them.
What he said.I can't believe no one has ever complained before.I can. Having seen this kind of thing before, I can tell you that you can have people that enjoy chanting an offensive song without actually caring about the meaning of the song. I don't think that all those who chant that are potential rapists (and I'm pretty sure a fair part would be horrified once confronted to rape), they just like the song because it's offensive, and because offensive humour is pleasing to them.
In my university, we had a song called "Burn the redheads" that veered into very atrocious stuff (murder, but also rape and possibly genocide). My girlfriend at the time was a redhead who found it hillarious. I think it's the same kind of thing.
Now, I'm not saying it's not offensive (as I said, that the point! Not underage rape, but underage rape being offensive), or that people shouldn't actually react. But... it's certainly not as horrible as you'd think. The best way to tackle the issue would be to make sure that everybody understand what they're singing and what it really means. Like any rape joke, you'll have people saying it can never be funny, some people saying that everything can be funny when done right, and some saying that it's not really a joke but real, honest-to-god rape advocacy.
Chill! It's a college, for crissake! That's where this sort of thing happens.
Chill! It's a college, for crissake! That's where this sort of thing happens. It's exhausting -- and fruitless -- to become outraged every time something thoughtless or stupid occurs. Especially when they happen in an environment in which thoughtless and stupid are considered admirable characteristics.Only way that the last part can change is if we never relax. No, I'm not doing a "Fight on the beaches" parody here.
Chill! It's a college, for crissake! That's where this sort of thing happens.
This sounds suspiciously like "Boys will be boys" logic.
Chill! It's a college, for crissake! That's where this sort of thing happens.
This sounds suspiciously like "Boys will be boys" logic.
It does indeed.
It's still rape culture and it still feeds into it, regardless of whether nobody actually followed the chant.As I said, it's a rape joke. Your opinion on rape jokes vis-a-vis rape culture will color your thoughts on that.
That's advocating rape of minors.is a mesured response.
It's still rape culture and it still feeds into it, regardless of whether nobody actually followed the chant.As I said, it's a rape joke. Your opinion on rape jokes vis-a-vis rape culture will color your thoughts on that.
The subject of offensive jokes is a sitcky and potentially explosive one.It's still rape culture and it still feeds into it, regardless of whether nobody actually followed the chant.As I said, it's a rape joke. Your opinion on rape jokes vis-a-vis rape culture will color your thoughts on that.
Yes, because as we all know, rape jokes are just spiffy. Guess I can go ahead and tell various off-colour jokes about them thievin darkies now, can't I?
Yes, boys will be boys. The most imaginative blasphemy, flagrant sexism and pathological social observations I ever encountered were in college. That was the early 1950's. And that was a Catholic men's college. Other contributions to society included drinking beer until it ran out of our noses. Most of us went on to be not quite so naughty. It's called growing up.Well, we should teach them to not be like that. If I can be respectful towards women and treat humans as equal, so can they.
Yes, boys will be boys. The most imaginative blasphemy, flagrant sexism and pathological social observations I ever encountered were in college. That was the early 1950's. And that was a Catholic men's college. Other contributions to society included drinking beer until it ran out of our noses. Most of us went on to be not quite so naughty. It's called growing up.
Should Jimmy Carr be forbidden from going on TV and on the radio because he makes child molestation jokes?Yes, boys will be boys. The most imaginative blasphemy, flagrant sexism and pathological social observations I ever encountered were in college. That was the early 1950's. And that was a Catholic men's college. Other contributions to society included drinking beer until it ran out of our noses. Most of us went on to be not quite so naughty. It's called growing up.
Sorry, OV, but this is coming across as sneakingly close to "its their culture and we're wrong for judging it." If people in Saudi Arabia were chanting this, people the world over would be calling for their heads. A bunch of knuckle-dragging bros in college chant this, and its okay because "boys will be boys." People aren't children going into college; more times than not, they're adults, and they're expected to act like adults and that means not being raging cunts and engaging in a cheer that's almost congratulating child molestation.
We are right for judging them, and they're in the wrong. Its fucked, and the pukes who started this shit should be expelled, and any participants after the fact should be put on reprimand, at the very least.
"Good jokes" and "Child molestation jokes" are mutually exclusive.
Context, people.
I am reminded of the 'nuke them'/'kill them'/'rape them with a thousand rusty spoons' responses many topics here receive on the first page, when some scandal or other sparks our outrage.
Is it offensive? Yes, kinda. I don't think anyone really ever defended it as perfectly okay and appropriate. But there is a common understanding how it's not meant seriously. And when there is doubt that someone is, in fact, saying it seriously, they are called out on it.
Is it nevertheless an endorsement ofchild molestationmurder? Feeding intorapeviolent culture?
Where is the moral difference between this chant and this aspect of our forum culture? If I'm making a false equivalence fallacy, please point out the critical difference, because I'm not seeing it at this moment.
I don't think the chant advocates rape, but I think it can lead to people not taking it as seriously. It's frightening how many people are raped on campus, yet receive responses like "Well, at least you're getting laid" and "You were probably too drunk to care" and "Dressed like that? You were just asking for it."
The best way to tackle the issue would be to make sure that everybody understand what they're singing and what it really means.
"Good jokes" and "Child molestation jokes" are mutually exclusive.Not always.
I am in no manner suggesting that the chant isn't crude and offensive. That's what it's meant to be. But if all it takes is a college cheer to turn people into slavering rapists we're in big trouble. Perspective. Perspective.I wish I had the links right now, but I am pretty sure studies have found that group mentality will go much, much further than one single person, and will take the group mindset to extremes. So... a chant kinda does.
In my experience with offensive uni chant, the group mentality does affect you a lot... it gets you to chant the offensive song with your buddies, while you would not do in on your own. It would take a special kind of fucked up for the group mentality to carry over that into actual molestation. (and in that case, yeah, they can burn)I am in no manner suggesting that the chant isn't crude and offensive. That's what it's meant to be. But if all it takes is a college cheer to turn people into slavering rapists we're in big trouble. Perspective. Perspective.I wish I had the links right now, but I am pretty sure studies have found that group mentality will go much, much further than one single person, and will take the group mindset to extremes. So... a chant kinda does.