What's wrong with MRAs?

[Ultimate Paragon]

This is a serious question.  Some of you seem to be taking it a priori that MRAs are inherently bad.  Well, I can say from personal experience that it ain't necessarily so.  What makes you think the Men's Rights Movement is so horrible?

[worlder]

It is reactionary.

In the best case it is about maintain the status quo in regards to gender roles, and the worst case is trying to widen the rift between gender roles that was only bridged within the last century.

EDIT:

So basically I see no upside to this movement in societies that are still considered patriarchal.

[Cerim Treascair]

The issue with the MRA's (or as my roomie refers to them, 'men that earn the moniker of being pigs') is that these are the assholes that are incredibly vocal about women being the subservient, 'bitch get in the kitchen and make me a sandwich', 'you don't get the right to have an abortion because you belong to me' fucktards.  And they get LISTENED TO.

[kefkaownsall]

As for actual men's rights issues they talk about them but refuse to really care about male rape victims other then to put down female rape victims.  Also that most feminist thigns wuold address "misandary"

[worlder]

Only in a society or culture where men hit the metaphorical glass ceiling in their careers, do the MRAs have an ounce of legitimacy to them.

[Ultimate Paragon]

That's true of some of them.  However, it's not true of all of them.  There are quite a few who just care about men's issues.

I'm not an MRA, but I sympathize with the movement and I think they make some good points.  The Men's Rights Movement is not a uniform monolith any more than feminism is.

On this installment on "Shit Radfems Say":

"The nuclear family must be destroyed... Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process." -- Linda Gordon

 "I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." -- Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor.

"I propose that the phenomenon of love is the psychological pivot in the persecution of women." -- Ti-Grace Atkinson in 'Radical Feminism and Love'

"Men are animals. Don't you think so?" -- Ireen von Wachenfeldt, radical feminist leader in Sweden

“Feminism, Socialism, and Communism are one in the same, and Socialist/Communist government is the goal of feminism.” - Catharine A. MacKinnon

 Bill Clinton's fixation on oral sex -- non-reciprocal oral sex -- consistently puts women in states of submission to him. It's the most fetishistic, heartless, cold sexual exchange that one could imagine. - (Andrea Dworkin)

 "I do want to be able to explain to a 9-year-old boy in terms he will understand why I think it's OK for girls to wear shirts that revel in their superiority over boys." -- Treena Shapiro

"We are, as a sex, infinitely superior to men." -- Elizabeth Cady Stanton

"Women have their faults / men have only two: / everything they say / everything they do." -- Popular Feminist Graffiti

"Probably the only place where a man can feel really secure is in a maximum security prison, except for the imminent threat of release." -- Germaine Greer.

"If anyone is prosecuted for filing a false report, then victims of real attacks will be less likely to report them." - David Angier

 "Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience." - Catherine Comins

"Politically, I call it rape whenever a woman has sex and feels violated." -- Catherine MacKinnon

"When a woman reaches ****** with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression." -- Sheila Jeffrys

Now, should we judge all feminists by these women?  Of course not.  So why the hell do you have the audacious gall to judge all MRAs by the worst ones?!

[ironbite]

Because all MRAs are like the RadFems.  In all my time here, I haven't met one who was actually interested in doing anything to equalize men and women.  That's what a true femmist wants if you get right down into the dirt with them.  Equality.  For most MRAs, equality is of the devil.  Equality means that men have to be treated the same as women and for MRAs, that means downgrading men while upgrading women rather then just upgrading women.

Ironbite-though I doubt you'll see it that way.

[worlder]

Like I said even at their best they are still acting like an obstacle.

In a patriarchal society, at their most benign, they unwittingly serve to prolong existing gender role issues.

[Ultimate Paragon]

Because all MRAs are like the RadFems.  In all my time here, I haven't met one who was actually interested in doing anything to equalize men and women.  That's what a true femmist wants if you get right down into the dirt with them.  Equality.  For most MRAs, equality is of the devil.  Equality means that men have to be treated the same as women and for MRAs, that means downgrading men while upgrading women rather then just upgrading women.

Ironbite-though I doubt you'll see it that way.

Does that include female MRAs?

And as for decent MRAs, there was this one on FSTDT a while back.

Let me just speak my peace about Men's Rights:

1) REAL MRA's or Progressive Masculists are not in any way against feminism or the progress of women's rights, in fact they should be in favor of them considering how supplementary the movements are and would only greatly harm their cause for making a display of sexism, much as a real feminist would not undermine her cause by being truly sexist.

2) A true MRA would recognize that many of the real issues, prejudices, and stereotypes facing men are a societal problem, which means that many are in fact inflicted by men just as much, or in many cases even more than women, and definitely not caused by honest to good feminism or completely by women.

3) While there is no question that women have suffered more and to this day have a greater number of issues facing them, pointing that out as a rationalization to ignore men's issues doesn't solve any of the issues facing either of the genders, anymore than saying something stupid like: "Racism is a bigger problem than feminism so women shouldn't get to complain."

4) I do not agree that men, or anyone should be told that they have no right to complain or should have to endure any truly unfair treatment. If femininsts were told they had no right to complain and that they had to endure with their problems (and they were), and had they just accepted that in the past, women would not enjoy the just equalities they have earned now. Such statements are the notions and tools which allow prejudice to thrive.

5) Finally I recognize the fact that there are quite a few Men's Rights groups that masquerade as having interests in men's rights to cover their own stupid sexism.  However, that's not true of the movement as a whole, and I am opposed to applying a negative portrayal even to the just ones: much like how the aforementioned idiots use [sexist women who utilize a false "feminism" as a cover for their prejudice] to talk badly of just feminists.

I do not believe I have said anything disagreeable here.

[ironbite]

I'd plumb the depths of your apparent ignorance some more but I've got a stuffed up head right now.

Ironbite-when I'm better and I feel like it I'll throw rocks at your theories.

[worlder]

Because all MRAs are like the RadFems.  In all my time here, I haven't met one who was actually interested in doing anything to equalize men and women.  That's what a true femmist wants if you get right down into the dirt with them.  Equality.  For most MRAs, equality is of the devil.  Equality means that men have to be treated the same as women and for MRAs, that means downgrading men while upgrading women rather then just upgrading women.

Ironbite-though I doubt you'll see it that way.

Does that include female MRAs?

And as for decent MRAs, there was this one on FSTDT a while back.

Let me just speak my peace about Men's Rights:

1) REAL MRA's or Progressive Masculists are not in any way against feminism or the progress of women's rights, in fact they should be in favor of them considering how supplementary the movements are and would only greatly harm their cause for making a display of sexism, much as a real feminist would not undermine her cause by being truly sexist.

2) A true MRA would recognize that many of the real issues, prejudices, and stereotypes facing men are a societal problem, which means that many are in fact inflicted by men just as much, or in many cases even more than women, and definitely not caused by honest to good feminism or completely by women.

3) While there is no question that women have suffered more and to this day have a greater number of issues facing them, pointing that out as a rationalization to ignore men's issues doesn't solve any of the issues facing either of the genders, anymore than saying something stupid like: "Racism is a bigger problem than feminism so women shouldn't get to complain."

4) I do not agree that men, or anyone should be told that they have no right to complain or should have to endure any truly unfair treatment. If femininsts were told they had no right to complain and that they had to endure with their problems (and they were), and had they just accepted that in the past, women would not enjoy the just equalities they have earned now. Such statements are the notions and tools which allow prejudice to thrive.

5) Finally I recognize the fact that there are quite a few Men's Rights groups that masquerade as having interests in men's rights to cover their own stupid sexism.  However, that's not true of the movement as a whole, and I am opposed to applying a negative portrayal even to the just ones: much like how the aforementioned idiots use [sexist women who utilize a false "feminism" as a cover for their prejudice] to talk badly of just feminists.

I do not believe I have said anything disagreeable here.

We'll let's how well those ideals stand when in practice.

What bills are to be promoted? What laws are to be altered or struck down?

Does the movement encourage men to engage in typically occupations and activities traditionally considered feminine?

Does the movement encourage boys to be unafraid of buying from the pink aisle?

Does the movement speak out against bullying against young men who choose to defy traditional gender roles?

Or does it simply reinforce the walls rather break them down.

[Witchyjoshy]

A "real" MRA is called a feminist.

[Ghoti]

The problem with MRAs is that they've confused male privilege with male rights, and that they fight tooth and claw (or at least they would, if they weren't too busy whining about getting "friendzoned") to preserve a system of "men > women".

[The Illusive Man]

Because all MRAs are like the RadFems.  In all my time here, I haven't met one who was actually interested in doing anything to equalize men and women.  That's what a true femmist wants if you get right down into the dirt with them.  Equality.  For most MRAs, equality is of the devil.  Equality means that men have to be treated the same as women and for MRAs, that means downgrading men while upgrading women rather then just upgrading women.

Ironbite-though I doubt you'll see it that way.

Does that include female MRAs?

And as for decent MRAs, there was this one on FSTDT a while back.

Let me just speak my peace about Men's Rights:

1) REAL MRA's or Progressive Masculists are not in any way against feminism or the progress of women's rights, in fact they should be in favor of them considering how supplementary the movements are and would only greatly harm their cause for making a display of sexism, much as a real feminist would not undermine her cause by being truly sexist.

2) A true MRA would recognize that many of the real issues, prejudices, and stereotypes facing men are a societal problem, which means that many are in fact inflicted by men just as much, or in many cases even more than women, and definitely not caused by honest to good feminism or completely by women.

3) While there is no question that women have suffered more and to this day have a greater number of issues facing them, pointing that out as a rationalization to ignore men's issues doesn't solve any of the issues facing either of the genders, anymore than saying something stupid like: "Racism is a bigger problem than feminism so women shouldn't get to complain."

4) I do not agree that men, or anyone should be told that they have no right to complain or should have to endure any truly unfair treatment. If femininsts were told they had no right to complain and that they had to endure with their problems (and they were), and had they just accepted that in the past, women would not enjoy the just equalities they have earned now. Such statements are the notions and tools which allow prejudice to thrive.

5) Finally I recognize the fact that there are quite a few Men's Rights groups that masquerade as having interests in men's rights to cover their own stupid sexism.  However, that's not true of the movement as a whole, and I am opposed to applying a negative portrayal even to the just ones: much like how the aforementioned idiots use [sexist women who utilize a false "feminism" as a cover for their prejudice] to talk badly of just feminists.

I do not believe I have said anything disagreeable here.

Sane not rapist or want to be rapist MRAs? I have yet to encounter any, ever. Please link to group’s who are not batshit and/or groups who are trying to clean up the MRA movement. They have a lot of work to do.

[Alehksunos]

What's wrong with 'Men's Rights Activists'? Why would you ask that?

(click to show/hide)

They're openly misogynistic fuckwads who have a persecution complex that rivals fundamentalist Christians, all because they are entitled jerk-asses who think that having sex makes them a man and they should never be denied it. They are to gender as the 'White-pride' movement is to race.