#YesAllWomen

[Witchyjoshy]

You're being self-contradictory now.  You don't take offense that women have to be cautious, but you do take offense that women have to be cautious.

Again, how are women supposed to be psychic enough to know who is and who isn't a creeper?

What I'm saying is, if a woman has reason to think he's going to hurt her, then she has every right to avoid him.  However, it's ludicrous to be suspicious of all men because one might hurt her.

Because every man who intends to hurt someone is going to exude all kinds of warning signs.  It's never the charismatic guy who looks like he'd never hurt a fly.  Never ever.  Right.

In other words, it's perfectly reasonable to be suspicious of somebody just because he's male.  Do you even understand what you're implying?  I'm all for fighting the patriarchy and raising awareness of women's issues, but this crosses a line.

There's a huge difference between suspicious and cautious.  But the fact that you're using "suspicious" means that you're taking this damn thing personally.

No, women shouldn't be suspicious of all men, but they should be CAUTIOUS around all men.  It's kinda like how you're supposed to be cautious around ALL strangers, period.  It's just worse for women than men, and they get it worse from other men.

And the fact that it's men close to women that often commit rape is terrible, too.  Yes, I saw your post before the edit.  And it's sad that women have to be cautious around men they most know.

So instead of criticizing women for being cautious, criticize men for giving them reason to be cautious.  And, like I said earlier, stop taking things personally.

[Ultimate Paragon]

You're being self-contradictory now.  You don't take offense that women have to be cautious, but you do take offense that women have to be cautious.

Again, how are women supposed to be psychic enough to know who is and who isn't a creeper?

What I'm saying is, if a woman has reason to think he's going to hurt her, then she has every right to avoid him.  However, it's ludicrous to be suspicious of all men because one might hurt her.

Because every man who intends to hurt someone is going to exude all kinds of warning signs.  It's never the charismatic guy who looks like he'd never hurt a fly.  Never ever.  Right.

In other words, it's perfectly reasonable to be suspicious of somebody just because he's male.  Do you even understand what you're implying?  I'm all for fighting the patriarchy and raising awareness of women's issues, but this crosses a line.

There's a huge difference between suspicious and cautious.  But the fact that you're using "suspicious" means that you're taking this damn thing personally.

No, women shouldn't be suspicious of all men, but they should be CAUTIOUS around all men.  It's kinda like how you're supposed to be cautious around ALL strangers, period.  It's just worse for women than men, and they get it worse from other men.

And the fact that it's men close to women that often commit rape is terrible, too.  Yes, I saw your post before the edit.  And it's sad that women have to be cautious around men they most know.

So instead of criticizing women for being cautious, criticize men for giving them reason to be cautious.  And, like I said earlier, stop taking things personally.

Okay, I think I get it now.  I wasn't taking things personally, I was just trying to point out what I felt were flaws in the movement.

However, I must criticize you for your last sentence.  If you think the male gender as a whole is responsible for the crimes committed against women, that's just plain offensive.  Of course, it's possible I'm misunderstanding you, and you're just talking about the individual men responsible.  If that's the case, then I sincerely apologize.

[Witchyjoshy]

However, I must criticize you for your last sentence.  If you think the male gender as a whole is responsible for the crimes committed against women, that's just plain offensive.  Of course, it's possible I'm misunderstanding you, and you're just talking about the individual men responsible.  If that's the case, then I sincerely apologize.

Apparently you don't get it.

Our culture teaches men that women are goals to attain, trophies to be won, and, well, sex objects.

And you have people like MRAs and PUAs who reinforce this idea.

And it is this culture that creates a hostile zone for women.

So whether we wanted to or not, we created this hostile zone, it is our responsibility to clean it up.

[Ultimate Paragon]

So I'm expected to feel guilty because I have a penis?  Fuck that!  I'll certainly help the cause of feminism, but I'll do it because it's the right thing to do, not as a form of restitution.

[Witchyjoshy]

So I'm expected to feel guilty because I have a penis?  Fuck that!  I'll certainly help the cause of feminism, but I'll do it because it's the right thing to do, not as a form of restitution.

It's not about your fucking penis.

It's about what society has trained you and me to believe about women, simply because we have penises.

By the Allfather, will you just listen for a moment!?

[Ultimate Paragon]

So I'm expected to feel guilty because I have a penis?  Fuck that!  I'll certainly help the cause of feminism, but I'll do it because it's the right thing to do, not as a form of restitution.

It's not about your fucking penis.

It's about what society has trained you and me to believe, simply because we have penises.

By the Allfather, will you just listen for a moment!?

Okay.  I'm all ears.

[Witchyjoshy]

So I'm expected to feel guilty because I have a penis?  Fuck that!  I'll certainly help the cause of feminism, but I'll do it because it's the right thing to do, not as a form of restitution.

It's not about your fucking penis.

It's about what society has trained you and me to believe, simply because we have penises.

By the Allfather, will you just listen for a moment!?

Okay.  I'm all ears.

It's about the roles we are expected to play.

It's about the attitudes we are trained to have.

It's about how the media treats us.

It's about the subconscious pulse of society.

It's about what our culture allows and disallows.

Simply because we have penises, and they don't.

It's men perpetuating this, and women perpetuating this because "we" tell them to.

That is why it's our responsibility.  To tell men otherwise.

This is not just for women, either.  It's for the human race, as a whole.  Because feminism isn't just about women, it's about men, too, who are hurt by what other men have decided is masculine and what is feminine.

That is why it's our responsibility.

To create an environment where we don't need to think of women as having to be related to us for us to care.  We should care just because they're human beings.

That is our responsibility.

You don't want women to have to be cautious around you, simply because you're a male.  Then let's fight the environment that men have created so they don't have to.

Let me put it this way

In this country, it's safer for a woman to say that she already belongs to a man than for her to say that she's just not interested in somebody.

In this country, it's safer for a woman to give a fake phone number to someone rather than to refuse to give them her number at all.

This is not okay.  And yet there are plenty of men out there who would defend a man's right to be angry to the point of violence with these women.

And there are plenty of men who would sympathize with the woman.  And plenty of men who would fake sympathy to try to get into her good graces so they can have sex with her.

We live in a world where we teach men to be predators and teach women to be prey.  And whether the two of us mean to or not, we contribute to that.

[Ultimate Paragon]

So I'm expected to feel guilty because I have a penis?  Fuck that!  I'll certainly help the cause of feminism, but I'll do it because it's the right thing to do, not as a form of restitution.

It's not about your fucking penis.

It's about what society has trained you and me to believe, simply because we have penises.

By the Allfather, will you just listen for a moment!?

Okay.  I'm all ears.

It's about the roles we are expected to play.

It's about the attitudes we are trained to have.

It's about how the media treats us.

It's about the subconscious pulse of society.

It's about what our culture allows and disallows.

Simply because we have penises, and they don't.

It's men perpetuating this, and women perpetuating this because "we" tell them to.

That is why it's our responsibility.  To tell men otherwise.

This is not just for women, either.  It's for the human race, as a whole.  Because feminism isn't just about women, it's about men, too, who are hurt by what other men have decided is masculine and what is feminine.

That is why it's our responsibility.

To create an environment where we don't need to think of women as having to be related to us for us to care.  We should care just because they're human beings.

That is our responsibility.

You don't want women to have to be cautious around you, simply because you're a male.  Then let's fight the environment that men have created so they don't have to.

Let me put it this way

In this country, it's safer for a woman to say that she already belongs to a man than for her to say that she's just not interested in somebody.

In this country, it's safer for a woman to give a fake phone number to someone rather than to refuse to give them her number at all.

This is not okay.  And yet there are plenty of men out there who would defend a man's right to be angry to the point of violence with these women.

And there are plenty of men who would sympathize with the woman.  And plenty of men who would fake sympathy to try to get into her good graces so they can have sex with her.

We live in a world where we teach men to be predators and teach women to be prey.  And whether the two of us mean to or not, we contribute to that.

I understand.  I will join you.  Sorry.

[Canadian Mojo]

So I'm expected to feel guilty because I have a penis?  Fuck that!  I'll certainly help the cause of feminism, but I'll do it because it's the right thing to do, not as a form of restitution.

It's not about your fucking penis.

It's about what society has trained you and me to believe, simply because we have penises.

By the Allfather, will you just listen for a moment!?

Okay.  I'm all ears.

Do you drive?

Assuming you do, do you automatically assume everyone around you is competent and going to follow the rules of the road and not get you into an accident thru no fault of your own? Or, do you exercise a little bit of caution when you see another vehicle approaching an intersection, or rapidly closing on you, moving a little too slowly, or any one of a hundred other things that catch your eye?

Frankly, you are a fool if you don't.

Now, for the sake of this analogy, women don't get cars. They get to ride motorcycles.

Ever ridden one in city traffic or on the highway? I have, for decades. You have no bumper. You have no airbags. You're small and vulnerable and virtually invisible. An accident that would barely scratch the paint on your car will put a biker in the morgue. The only way you stay alive is to anticipate and avoid getting yourself into potentially dangerous situations.

This is what women do. This is their only viable option. Don't begrudge it.

[TheUnknown]

So I'm expected to feel guilty because I have a penis?  Fuck that!  I'll certainly help the cause of feminism, but I'll do it because it's the right thing to do, not as a form of restitution.

It's not about your fucking penis.

It's about what society has trained you and me to believe, simply because we have penises.

By the Allfather, will you just listen for a moment!?

Okay.  I'm all ears.

Do you drive?

Assuming you do, do you automatically assume everyone around you is competent and going to follow the rules of the road and not get you into an accident thru no fault of your own? Or, do you exercise a little bit of caution when you see another vehicle approaching an intersection, or rapidly closing on you, moving a little too slowly, or any one of a hundred other things that catch your eye?

Frankly, you are a fool if you don't.

Now, for the sake of this analogy, women don't get cars. They get to ride motorcycles.

Ever ridden one in city traffic or on the highway? I have, for decades. You have no bumper. You have no airbags. You're small and vulnerable and virtually invisible. An accident that would barely scratch the paint on your car will put a biker in the morgue. The only way you stay alive is to anticipate and avoid getting yourself into potentially dangerous situations.

This is what women do. This is their only viable option. Don't begrudge it.

This immediately reminded me of something my dad told when teaching me to drive:  "When you're driving, assume every other driver on the road is an idiot."

[davedan]

Besides UP - you have to understand that it is all about MY penis.

[Canadian Mojo]

This immediately reminded me of something my dad told when teaching me to drive:  "When you're driving, assume every other driver on the road is an idiot."

Everyone is taught that or learns it for themselves first hand. Amazingly nobody is offended by it. 

[Quasirodent]

I have some questions about that '40% of domestic abuse victims are male' statistic.
Assuming it is true:
How many of those 40% are abused by other men?
How often, in cases of females abusing men, are the men seriously harmed or killed?
How often is the male reporting abuse also abusive toward his partner (mutual abuse, reciprocal abuse)?
Is verbal abuse included?   And if it is, how much of that 40% is verbal?
Is abuse by family members such as sibling, cousins, parents, aunts or uncles, included?

I think the numbers matter, when MRA types are using this claim to try to silence women's demands for equality.

[Witchyjoshy]

How often, in cases of females abusing men, are the men seriously harmed or killed?\

I don't have hard facts for you, but I remember reading once that when a woman is being violent towards a man, she's more likely to use objects to do so.  Including frying pans.

It's no joke, either, a frying pan when used by anyone can actually do serious harm to someone, especially when you hit them in the head.

Part of this is due to the social viewpoint that women are weaker than men, therefore, they "need" tools to be able to compete on the same level.

As far as verbal/psychological abuse goes, I'm not sure there's any statistic for that because many people, including the victims, don't view either as "legitimate abuse".

[The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist]

It's men perpetuating this, and women perpetuating this because "we" tell them to.

I... kind of find this insulting. Women don't perpetuate gender roles because men tell us to, we do it because we, like men, are products of our society. Also like men, we're prone to stubbornly resisting changes to the status quo and perpetuating norms that benefit us (and there are gender roles that benefit some groups of women while harming others). We aren't children, obeying or rebelling against men -- we're people, responding to the issues that society as a whole, women included, has presented us. Failure to hold us accountable for our own contributions to gender inequality really only serves to belittle our ability to make our own conscious decisions.