FSTDT Forums
Community => Society and History => Topic started by: niam2023 on April 12, 2015, 02:12:49 am
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http://news.yahoo.com/transgender-teen-california-kills-self-bullying-204219113.html
How sad.
Here I thought California was better than certain other states I will not name...
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This needs to stop.
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It never will.
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It never will.
It will. There's a big movement going.
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Oh...just...no.
Ironbite-trust me on this it never will stop.
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At least...not for a long time.
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Whatever.... ::)
8) The LGBT are winning the "Culture War"..... 8)
Y'ain't gettin' me down, fellas. I will always embrace hope....so *NYAH*! ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCCGZh-TxK0
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You know we've been over this right? Blind optimism is all well and good but please temper yourself with a bit of reality.
Ironbite-cause this shit has been going on for ages.
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For once I agree with Spuki's optimism. Things are getting better in regards to trans rights, in some parts of the world anyway. Better does not mean good, but an improvement is still an improvement. It's not crazy to think the trend will continue.
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For once I agree with Spuki's optimism. Things are getting better in regards to trans rights, in some parts of the world anyway. Better does not mean good, but an improvement is still an improvement. It's not crazy to think the trend will continue.
THANK YOU!
Now, I'm not saying that people won't continue to send themselves to The Great Gig In The Sky. It's something that humans do, for whatever reason. But I think the "doomy dooms of doom...'it will never get better'" attitude is really stupid.
Also, I'm all for realism. Optimism should always be paired with realism. I'm not a "blind optimist" by a long shot....but I do try to see the silver-lining in everything and I do believe in hope and staying positive.
I'm a Realist-Idealist.
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I agree with everyone here, as contradictory as that may seem. Allow me to explain.
I'll admit, the idea of a transgender does, to a degree, squick me slightly. I realize that there is no reason for that, and that my gut impulses are not necessarily right, and so if I ever meet someone who identifies as transgender, I will try to avoid judging or otherwise unfairly treating them. However, not everyone is good at metacognition. For some people, a gut feeling is all they need, and some of those people aren't even religious. Because of this, it is true that we will never have a world where this sort of thing doesn't happen.
At the same time, though, look at where we are today versus where we were a decade ago. In 2004, a national election in the United States was won on a platform of "teh gayz are yucky". Today, the homophobes are a liability to the national Republicans. Hell, some of the people I went to school with in my conservative home town are willing to have serious conversations about transgender rights, and come out on the right side.
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I agree with everyone here, as contradictory as that may seem. Allow me to explain.
I'll admit, the idea of a transgender does, to a degree, squick me slightly. I realize that there is no reason for that, and that my gut impulses are not necessarily right, and so if I ever meet someone who identifies as transgender, I will try to avoid judging or otherwise unfairly treating them. However, not everyone is good at metacognition. For some people, a gut feeling is all they need, and some of those people aren't even religious. Because of this, it is true that we will never have a world where this sort of thing doesn't happen.
At the same time, though, look at where we are today versus where we were a decade ago. In 2004, a national election in the United States was won on a platform of "teh gayz are yucky". Today, the homophobes are a liability to the national Republicans. Hell, some of the people I went to school with in my conservative home town are willing to have serious conversations about transgender rights, and come out on the right side.
That was pretty much my point. Thank you.
I've gotten over the "Trans are weird" feeling a long while ago. Heck, I wouldn't mind dating a trans-man who still has the original female plumbing.
Anyway, as the saying goes, "It Gets Better!".
Of course, it's a different story in places like the Mid-East, Africa, Russia, etc.
But Western Europe & North America are better on this LGBTA-rights thing.
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The "trans are eww" reaction isn't that bad as long as the person still treats transpeople as people. You can't really force people to like or to be attracted to everyone else.
Unfortunately far too often I have seen the "ewww" reaction being used as a justification for taking away rights from people (or not giving them the rights in the first place.)
For example, plenty of atheists oppose gay marriage and other GLBT issues because it is "unnatural" or "disgusting."
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Ya'll are missing my point. My point is that driving kids to suicide because they're different WILL NEVER END! The reasoning changes but the outcome is always the same. Until we start educating parents that they're child is ok even if they turn out to be gay or trans or what have you, this will keep happening. And no laws or rights will ever change that.
Ironbite-get some shelters out there, some sort of education system, and you'll be on the road.
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I'm siding with IronBite on this one. Kids don't bully others because they're trans or wear glasses or are a different skin color. Kids bully kids because they're different.
Just curious, but I do have a couple open questions for the optimists here. It's getting better, not good but better. Ok. So what are we calling good? How do we get there? Specifically with regards to kids, how do we get to good?
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I'm siding with IronBite on this one. Kids don't bully others because they're trans or wear glasses or are a different skin color. Kids bully kids because they're different.
True but not the whole picture. Kids can get bullied for more or less any reason, but some reasons cause a lot more bullying than others. Trans and gay kids are bullied a lot more/worse than kids who wear glasses, and the suicide rates reflect it.
Just curious, but I do have a couple open questions for the optimists here. It's getting better, not good but better. Ok. So what are we calling good?
I don't really have a well-defined cut-off point? The goal is no kids get bullied into suicide (well, one of the goals). I can't see how calling a particular outcome "good" makes any difference, as long as we all agree that fewer kids killing themselves is better.
How do we get there? Specifically with regards to kids, how do we get to good?
I don't have general solutions to most social problems, unfortunately. I have any number of guesses, probably none of which is useful or possible to implement.
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Thank you for a very honest answer, Sigma. And I think less kids committing suicide is better.