Things That Annoy You

[SpaceProg]

I don't think that.  I love animals.  I'm not a hunter personally (I used to fish, though), but I know a lot of them and they're usually freely giving with their deer meat.     
I don't think I'd be able to shoot to kill anything unless it was threatening me or someone I care about.   There are people who do go out and hunt and, as I also eat meat, if they offer me some of what they kill, I usually say yes.

[Witchyjoshy]

Speaking of hunting, I'm "okay" with my Dad hunting (I feel sad about it but that's how nature works and I'm not gonna tell Dad he can't hunt) but I'm not okay with the fact that he willingly shoots wolves and coyotes because they are "rival hunters".  I've thought about pointing out the fridge logic (as in, why he doesn't shoot other hunters in the area) but it'd be lost on him.

He believes that the only living wolves should be in a zoo.  I believe he's a selfish asshole - which I've believed ever since he turned Mom's cancer into a "WHAT ABOUT ME!?" situation, before storming out the door to go hunting, leaving his sick wife with his young teenage son.

[Random Gal]

Oops. By "here" I meant the area where I live IRL, not this forum.

[SpaceProg]

Oops. By "here" I meant the area where I live IRL, not this forum.

Gotcha.  No worries.

Zachski:  Isn't killing wolves illegal?

[Witchyjoshy]

Oops. By "here" I meant the area where I live IRL, not this forum.

Gotcha.  No worries.

Zachski:  Isn't killing wolves illegal?

I'm sure it is, and I'm sure he doesn't care.

And I can't report him because then we lose... basically everything.  His job, our insurance, our house... yeah.

[lord gibbon]

I am fully accepting of subsistence hunting, and even hunter who use what they kill. I am not ok with "sport" hunting, and fail to see any joy one would get from killing real living things.

[The Right Honourable Mlle Antéchrist]

I try not to judge others, but I definitely couldn't go hunting without feeling really guilty for a long time afterward. Hell, I once felt guilty after I shot a bear in a hunting computer game. That's how much of a sap I am.

(To be fair, it was super realistic. I shot the bear in the shoulder and it started running around in circles, growling in pain and terror. I kept trying to shoot it again to put it out of its misery but I sucked at aiming, so it just ran around until it collapsed, let out a final moan of pain, and died. I sat there staring in horror, and then soundtrack dissonance kicked in when the voiceover cheerfully goes, "That's a big one!")

[Art Vandelay]

I don't have a problem with hunting, as long as it's properly regulated. As long as it doesn't endanger any native species, it's not an issue. Hell, when it comes to certain introduced species (such as foxes, rabbits and even deer in certain places over here), I not only support recreational hunting, but outright encourage it.

[Random Gal]

Oops. By "here" I meant the area where I live IRL, not this forum.

Gotcha.  No worries.

Zachski:  Isn't killing wolves illegal?

I'm sure it is, and I'm sure he doesn't care.

And I can't report him because then we lose... basically everything.  His job, our insurance, our house... yeah.

As I recall, after wolves were reintroduced to Yellowstone, the ranchers there decided they would solve their problems via "shoot, shovel, and shut up" regardless of the law.

[Witchyjoshy]

Oops. By "here" I meant the area where I live IRL, not this forum.

Gotcha.  No worries.

Zachski:  Isn't killing wolves illegal?

I'm sure it is, and I'm sure he doesn't care.

And I can't report him because then we lose... basically everything.  His job, our insurance, our house... yeah.

As I recall, after wolves were reintroduced to Yellowstone, the ranchers there decided they would solve their problems via "shoot, shovel, and shut up" regardless of the law.

That's the exact motto Dad and his brothers/hunting friends use.

We aren't anywhere near Yellowstone though.

[Shane for Wax]

I'm not going to so much answer everyone as to explain my position and why it annoys me to have people call hunters selfish, cruel, cowardly people. But it'll do the same thing, I guess. And no, Chit, I dunno how many of them eat meat. I never really ask because I never feel like arguing with someone who has the anti-hunting position.

1) Hunting thins the herd. That cannot be argued. Hunting allows for a 'better species of animal'. It allows others to live where they would die because of overpopulation. Arguing that hunting anything at all is cowardly and serves no purpose is ridiculous. Because places like the Fish and Wildlife do tend to agree that hunting helps the ecosystem.

2) Yes, even hunting predators helps. Even if you want to argue 'well are you going to use that predator's meat, skin, and bones?' that doesn't neutralize the fact that thinning the numbers of predators helps the ecosystem. The problem comes from over hunting them. Which just ends up messing up the ecosystem and can cause herd animals (such as deer) to over-populate the area. Which is bad. But that still isn't an argument not to hunt predator animals ever, ever. Besides, I have indeed seen and heard people eat the meat of various predators (gator, bear, etc.,)

3) Unless the animal you plan to hunt is endangered, if you're only killing one or so a season you aren't exactly tipping the scales in either direction too badly from which the species can't jump back. Which again is why it's ridiculous to call a hunter immoral, cruel, and cowardly.

4) Blanketly saying that all hunters, no matter what, are wrong makes you just as ridiculous. Humans have been hunting for thousands of years. Humans still eat meat. They are designed to eat meat and veg. Can you get meat without hunting? Yeah, sure. But the problem becomes when that person ends up sitting on a bunch of land that has a lot of animals they could be getting meat for free. Which is better? Getting some venison for free or driving all the way back into town to buy some beef steaks? Are you going to turn around and tell the indigenous population wherever you live that they are immoral and unethical in hunting for their food, something they have done for thousands of years as well?

TL;DR- even if you want to argue there is a huge difference between sport hunting and food hunting, both 'forms' of hunting help the ecosystem in ways many people either do not know or do not care to know for whatever reason (perhaps so they can still hold their anti-hunting position).

I've hunted. I have shot and killed a deer. We used as much of the animal as we could- meat, hide, etc., The rest we disposed of that didn't really have a use (we don't tend to eat the organs like the heart in the house). And it annoys me when people end up going on and on about how hunters are the worst type of people and 'oh my god how can anyone shoot a poor, defenseless animal? They must be heartless!' No, my dear. I am full of heart. Enough so that I will go out there and I will help thin the fucking herd so that the other animals in the forest can actually live out their lives in a healthier fashion than if I didn't do a damn thing.

[Witchyjoshy]

Not to mention that most animals aren't all that helpless.

Even rabbits will turn vicious at a moment's notice if they are cornered.

Deer?  Deer have hooves, a great sense of smell, and in the case of males, antlers.  Antlers are for more than just show, after all.  Not to mention they run really quickly.

Hunters have to develop a keen sense of stealth and patience just to be able to kill one animal.

[SpaceProg]

A big reason we're out the wazoo on deer (in the Eastern US, anyway, not to mention the crazy-expanding number of wild pigs), is wolves were hunted pretty much to extinction in the East.    It makes me sad that I probably will never hear a wolf howl at a moon in the Georgia sky. 

Coyotes on the other hand..., but that's mostly because coys are very adaptable and opportunistic, as well as the Eastern Red Wolf and Grey Wolf used to keep their numbers down.  Now we're overloaded with the critters, just like we are with deer and pigs.

We really screwed ourselves over in the East by killing our wolves.

[Shane for Wax]

Exactly my point, Zach. Humans have this thing where they are simultaneously the worst species and the better species according to some people. Which tends to make it to where people think that since we're so smart we shouldn't need to hunt we should be able to get food in other ways. Which, frankly, I find dumb. The idea that because we're bigger that means we shouldn't hunt things smaller than us... eh. I dunno I just have a lot of opinions on hunting. And I kinda find it offensive that people believe all animals are helpless and defenseless when that isn't the case. We may be at the top of the food chain but that doesn't mean we're invincible unlike the poor widdle deer and wabbits. In this case, 'picking on someone your own size' just isn't going to happen. We evolved with our big brain and our ability to make tools for the purposes of hunting and the like. Denying that fact doesn't change it.

Oh, and since Spaceprog (and Zach) brought it up-- tumblr exploded when they saw a couple of staged pictures of hunters kneeling by a wolf. They got so worked up they didn't even stop to think that wolves might be endangered in the US that doesn't mean they're endangered elsewhere. Tho I admit I am unsure of where the hunters and wolf were in the picture.

This picture in particular-

(click to show/hide)

People said things like:
a) hunters are so worried about the trapped beast that they are well out of range;
b) all are smiling ( the animal has to be in pain and shock);
c) took the time to get one of the group to photograph this historical moment;
d) moments later this pack of barbarians shot the wolf (from a safe distance).


If you aren't aware of the specific practice of hunting shown in the picture then allow me to explain: that wolf set off a humane trap that held its leg rather gently and didn't cause pain to the animal. This allows the hunter to find the wolf and shoot it from a safe distance. Because hunters aren't stupid. We aren't going to go near the wolf until it's dead. The idea that it was in pain and shock during the last minutes of its life is completely wrong. That trap is designed to have the wolf (or any other animal, really) as comfortable as possible. The wolf's leg is not like that because of the trap only, the wolf positioned itself like that. You will note a chain. Which means the wolf was able to move around if it wanted to. I don't know how exactly that can be cruel.

The fact that it is also apparently immoral to take a picture is also laughable. That's what people do. They take pictures of their 'prey'. Again, everything a hunter does damns them in the eyes of certain people.

And then there was this gem:
"While we have ‘humans’ whom not only kill an animal for sport, but actually set up a page where they can boost to the world of their ‘brave acts’, we will never be able to find a world of peace and acceptance."

Doing one of the things humans have been doing for thousands of years apparently means we'll never have world peace. And the fact that humans is placed in quotations definitely shows how people view hunters (heartless non-humans). And you know what? It is brave to hunt a wolf. Because you're at risk as long as you're in their forest.

While I don't enjoy the idea of wolves being hunted (mainly because I love them so much), I understand that it is necessary in certain parts of the world where wolves are suffering over-population. And that makes a lot of difference, I think. And I would never condone hunting down endangered species. Which means I don't agree with the hunting of wolves in various parts of the US but I am okay with it in other parts of the world like Russia.

I'm sorry, I should have made a new thread for this. I didn't think I'd ramble like this.

[SpaceProg]

Yeah, if something is overpopulated (even wolves and other pretty animals), there has to be a cull, otherwise everyone suffers.  Pretty much if you spot a wild pig in GA, you're encouraged to kill it, if you have the means to do so.  Good thing I like wild pig meat.